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  • FIRST POST
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 11th Oct 13, 3:10 PM
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    martmonk
    PE - Equality Act issues
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 13, 3:10 PM
    PE - Equality Act issues 11th Oct 13 at 3:10 PM
    I'm helping a friend offline with a PCN they received from PE.

    This was 30mins overstay (2 hours instead of 1.5). Main reason was stopping in another store (over road, car park is for one store only) to breastfeed 22 month old baby.

    NtK was received appox 5 days after the 'event'. Appeal went to PE based on the numerous posts on here and a complaint made to retailer (driver is customer but no receipts - paid cash on day). In store hopeless so email through website fired off using CM's EA2010 points re nursing mother. Nonesense replies received so today we've obtained CEO email addy and have sent off to them.

    The appeal to PE was submitted electronically on Monday (I've told friend to hard copy but they prefer email - will have to do hard copy at some point though I know).

    The question I have is have you ever known PE to send a duplicate NtK? Friend says duplicate received today.

    I've asked that they check carefully that it is not either - the next letter and contains a PoPLA code or a second separate NtK.

    I've not yet seen the letters but hopefully will this weekend, just wanted to see if anyone has had this before (assuming they are right and it is indeed duplicate) and does it matter?
Page 1
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 11th Oct 13, 4:41 PM
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    zzzLazyDaisy
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 13, 4:41 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 13, 4:41 PM
    Not quite the same but I have known PE send a second notice to driver (after driver was identified by keeper) on two occasions - the first had same PCN number but sent one month after the first, the second was a completely different PCN number, but for the same 'event'.

    On both occasions I advised raising a second appeal against the second PCN, in the same terms as the first, and cross referencing to the first.

    Why? Simple - I don't trust them not to file the first one and run with the second.

    D
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Oct 13, 5:48 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 13, 5:48 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 13, 5:48 PM
    I seem to recall a thread on pepipoo the other week where the person reckoned they were sent a duplicate NTK but they weren't at home and were going to check that the PCN numbers were the same (not sure they updated the thread). Maybe the minion at PE pressed the wrong 'computer says no' button and generated a PCN instead of a cancellation?!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 11th Oct 13, 5:51 PM
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    martmonk
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 13, 5:51 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 13, 5:51 PM
    I should see both letters tomorrow so will update thereafter.
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 18th Oct 13, 12:19 PM
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    martmonk
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 13, 12:19 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 13, 12:19 PM
    It appears that the second letter was automated reminder which didn't take into account that an appeal has already been lodged.

    Today a letter from PE has been received, the contents of which are;

    Ref XXXXX

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the Parking Charge incurred on (DATE) at (TIME)at (LOCATION) car park.

    We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been referred for further information.

    You have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and and time of the breach of the terms and conditions of the car park, but you have not indicated who was. Please provide this additional information within the next 7 days. We will place the outstanding charge on hold for a further 14 days to give you time to do so.

    Alternatively, payment can be made by telephoning our offices on 0844 247 2981 or by visiting www.parkingeye.co.uk or by posting a cheque to the postal address detailed below.

    If this charge has been paid and you choose to provide further evidence relating to your appeal, please forward this to us for consideration.

    As the RK neither confirmed or denied who was driving and this doesn't have a popla code I'm suggesting to friend that we draft a letter based on;


    Under POFA 2012
    • you ARE entitled to deal with this matter as the RK
    • you are NOT required to identify the driver
    • PE is NOT entitled to demand that you identify the driver
    • PE is NOT entitled to refuse to deal with your appeal as RK
    • If PE does pull those stunts they ARE in the firing line for a complaint to BPA & DVLA
    (*thanks to Daisy for this post elsewhere)

    I'm also going to suggest complaints to DVLA and BPA?

    No reply has yet been made by retailer. Initial appeal and the letter to retailer were both EA2010 based.

    Comments/suggestions please?
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 18th Oct 13, 12:44 PM
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    zzzLazyDaisy
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 13, 12:44 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 13, 12:44 PM
    Here is an letter to PE that I prepared for another poster, amended to suit your circumstances.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    PPC NAME
    Address

    DATE

    For the personal attention of Ms Ledson (Supervising Solicitor)


    FORMAL COMPLAINT




    Dear Ms Ledson

    Parking Charge Number xxxxxxx
    Vehicle Registration Number xxxxxx


    I am the Registered Keeper of the above vehicle. I am writing to lodge a formal complaint regarding your company's refusal to issue a POPLA code, and your unlawful insistence that I must identify the driver.

    Specifically:

    On [date] I raised an appeal with your company against the above PCN.

    On [date] your Legal Department sent me a template letter unlawfully refusing to deal with my appeal and stating that:

    "We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been referred for further information. You have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and and time of the breach of the terms and conditions of the car park, but you have not indicated who was. Please provide this additional information within the next 7 days. We will place the outstanding charge on hold for a further 14 days to give you time to do so."


    This is a clear breach of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and the BPA Code of Practice both of which make provision for the Registered Keeper to handle this matter, and most certainly do not impose any obligation whatsoever on the Registered Keeper to identify the driver, as you appear to be implying.

    Accordingly I have now made formal complaints to Steve Clarke of the BPA and also to the DVLA concerning your unlawful conduct in obstructing my legal right, as the Registered Keeper, to appeal to POPLA.

    Further, I find it impossible to believe that, as a Solicitor and head of the company's Legal Department, you are unaware of the provisions of POFA 2012. I am therefore forced to the reluctant conclusion that you have sanctioned this dishonest interpretation of the law by your company, for its own ends.

    I take the view that such conduct amounts to a serious breach of the Principles set out in the SRA Handbook Vol. 8, published on 1st October 2013. Accordingly I am now preparing a formal complaint to the SRA requesting an investigation into the practices of your Legal Department, and of you personally as Supervising Solicitor of the Legal Department.

    PLEASE NOTE: In the circumstances I expect you to cancel this charge, however if you refuse to do so, you should send me a verification code in order that I may pursue an appeal to POPLA as the Registered Keeper as is my lawful right.

    I require your reply within 14 days.


    Yours faithfully

    PRINT NAME

    CC:

    Steve.C@britishparking.co.uk
    elizabeth.symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    report@sra.org.uk
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    FORMAL COMPLAINT AGAINST BPA MEMBER PARKINGEYE LTD concerning serious breaches of POFA 2012 and BPA Code of Practice

    Dear Mr Clarke

    PCN ref xxxxxxxxx
    Vehicle reg no XXXXXXXX


    I wish to make a formal complaint about ParkingEye Ltd in respect of its clear breach of POFA 2012 schedule 4, para 5, and the guidance set out in the BPA Code of Practice.

    I am the Registered Keeper of the above mentioned vehicle. I am dealing with the above matter in my capacity as Registered Keeper, as I am legally entitled to do.

    On [date] I made a written appeal, as the Registered Keeper, to ParkingEye Ltd against the above PCN

    On [date] ParkingEye sent me a standard template letter advising me that it had suspended my appeal pending receipt of the driver's name and address.

    I attach a copy of your member's letter to me dated [date] and my reply of today's date, for your information. I am appalled that an Operator approved by the British Parking Association is able to openly disregard both the law of the land and the code of practice to which it subscribes, without sanction or interference.

    I would be grateful if you would investigate this complaint and look forward to hearing that this parking company has been sanctioned for its conduct.

    Yours etc

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Copy the BPA letter and enclosed correspondence to DVLA

    PCN ref xxxxxxxxx
    Vehicle reg no XXXXXXXX


    I wish to make a formal complaint about ParkingEye Ltd concerning a serious breach of the POFA 2012 and the BPA Code of Practice.

    I enclose a copy of my letter to BPA of today's date, the contents of which are self explanatory.

    I am appalled that this company is able to access the details of Registered Keepers from the DVLA data base when it is clearly using those details for unlawful means. I trust that you will take immediate action to stop this practice.

    Yours etc

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Information here on how to complain to the SRA taken from another thread. Please DO IT as solicitors who mislead the public and manipulate the law for their own and their client's ends should be reported:

    Make the point that Ms Ledson, as an in-house solicitor, has allowed her professional independence to be compromised by her client/employer, and that as a consequence she has failed to uphold the rule of law and/or to act with integrity in her dealings - and that of the Legal Department for who she is responsible - with members of the public, and she has failed to behave in a way that maintains the confidence that the public is entitled to have in the legal profession, and ask the SRA to investigate this complaint.

    A complaint to the SRA does not get much feedback, and they may not launch a full investigation based on one complaint. But a steady stream of complaints will be taken seriously, as you can see from THIS thread about GPB solicitors (who were also up to their neck in the PPC scam).

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...&highlight=gpb

    See here for details of how to complain to the SRA:

    How to report a solicitor or firm to the SRA
    When reporting, please
    set out your concerns clearly
    identify individuals you consider responsible,
    attach any evidence you have in support.
    To send your information to us:

    Complete our report form (DOC 184K, 2 pages) and send it to
    Solicitors Regulation Authority
    The Cube
    199 Wharfside Street
    Birmingham
    B1 1RN
    or
    Email us at report@sra.org.uk

    For guidance on the complaints process, call our contact centre. Note that we cannot provide advice about your issue, however we can point you in the right direction.

    Hope this helps.

    Daisy

    *The Principles are listed here:

    The Principles

    The Principles are at the core of everything that we do, and everything those we regulate do. If there is a clash between two or more Principles, the course of action taken will be according to the Principle that best serves the public interest.

    The Principles say that

    "You must:

    uphold the rule of law and the proper administration of justice,
    act with integrity,
    not allow your independence to be compromised,
    act in the best interests of each client,
    provide a proper standard of service to your clients,
    behave in a way that maintains the trust the public places in you and in the provision of legal services,
    comply with your legal and regulatory obligations and deal with your regulators and ombudsmen in an open, timely and co-operative manner,
    run your business or carry out your role in the business effectively and in accordance with proper governance and sound financial and risk management principles,
    run your business or carry out your role in the business in a way that encourages equality of opportunity and respect for diversity, and
    protect client money and assets."
    Last edited by zzzLazyDaisy; 18-10-2013 at 1:11 PM.
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 18th Oct 13, 2:57 PM
    • 855 Posts
    • 911 Thanks
    martmonk
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 13, 2:57 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 13, 2:57 PM
    Friend just came back to me after drafting letter and advised the PE site is 'down' in that it won't accept his submission.
    From his email to me;
    You can view all pages but it states that it is not ‘Live’

    He's added an email address for SRA to the CC's;
    contactcentre@sra.org.uk
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 18th Oct 13, 3:14 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
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    zzzLazyDaisy
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 13, 3:14 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 13, 3:14 PM
    Friend just came back to me after drafting letter and advised the PE site is 'down' in that it won't accept his submission.
    From his email to me;
    You can view all pages but it states that it is not ‘Live’

    He's added an email address for SRA to the CC's;
    contactcentre@sra.org.uk
    Originally posted by martmonk
    This e-add is better report@sra.org.uk

    Also, he may wish to consider snail mail (send by ordinary 1st class post from the post office and get a free certificate of posting - do not use signed for post as PPCs often refuse to accept delivery of those)
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 23rd Oct 13, 11:29 AM
    • 855 Posts
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    martmonk
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 13, 11:29 AM
    Victory!!
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 13, 11:29 AM
    Thanks to all.

    Letter from PE;

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    We refer to the Parking Charge incurred on (date) at (time) at (location).

    We can confirm that this Charge has been cancelled and there is no outstanding payment due on this account.

    Kind Regards

    ParkingEye Team

    Whilst I'm happy for my mate that this is off their backs it still irks me that these parasites are operating at this location which is Home Bargains in Jarrow, South Tyneside.

    Earlier in the week I sent an email off tothe planning dept as I can't see anything online in regard to this car park.

    There's nothing to indicate why the charge is cancelled so could be the complaints on EA grounds, or could be instruction by retailer following the same EA issues being raised there.

    For any other Home Bargains threads these might be useful;

    joe.morris@tjmorris.co.uk operations director
    and (guess) tom.morris@tjmorris.co.uk (MD)
    • HO87
    • By HO87 23rd Oct 13, 11:33 AM
    • 4,186 Posts
    • 7,514 Thanks
    HO87
    Here is an letter to PE that I prepared for another poster, amended to suit your circumstances.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    PPC NAME
    Address

    DATE

    For the personal attention of Ms Ledson (Supervising Solicitor)


    FORMAL COMPLAINT...

    "You must:

    uphold the rule of law and the proper administration of justice,
    act with integrity,
    not allow your independence to be compromised,
    act in the best interests of each client,
    provide a proper standard of service to your clients,
    behave in a way that maintains the trust the public places in you and in the provision of legal services,
    comply with your legal and regulatory obligations and deal with your regulators and ombudsmen in an open, timely and co-operative manner,
    run your business or carry out your role in the business effectively and in accordance with proper governance and sound financial and risk management principles,
    run your business or carry out your role in the business in a way that encourages equality of opportunity and respect for diversity, and
    protect client money and assets."
    Originally posted by zzzLazyDaisy
    A stunning set of letters - another sticky in the making IMHO.
    My very sincere apologies for those hoping to request off-board assistance but I am now so inundated with requests that in order to do justice to those "already in the system" I am no longer accepting PM's and am unlikely to do so for the foreseeable future (August 2016).

    For those seeking more detailed advice and guidance regarding small claims cases arising from private parking issues I recommend that you visit the Private Parking forum on PePiPoo.com
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 23rd Oct 13, 2:26 PM
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    martmonk
    Looks like planning consent might be a none issue.

    In parallel to all of the above I sent off an email to the planning office who this afternoon confirmed that there is no application relating to cameras in this location.

    However a search of the tinterweb got me to the point of believing that it was needed if they errected a pole for said cameras. The mate who I've referred to throughout actually works for a security company and he advised that;

    If they used an existing lamp post then no planning needed for that but they have to register with Data Protection Registrar etc (I assume they will have) and get approval / permission for the cameras.
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 23rd Oct 13, 4:33 PM
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    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    If they used an existing lamp post then no planning needed for that but they have to register with Data Protection Registrar etc (I assume they will have) and get approval / permission for the cameras.
    Originally posted by martmonk
    Never assume anything when dealing with PPCs...........
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
  • nicctaylor
    [QUOTE=zzzLazyDaisy;63488799]Here is an letter to PE that I prepared for another poster, amended to suit your circumstances.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    PPC NAME
    Address

    DATE

    For the personal attention of Ms Ledson (Supervising Solicitor)


    FORMAL COMPLAINT




    Dear Ms Ledson

    Parking Charge Number xxxxxxx
    Vehicle Registration Number xxxxxx


    I am the Registered Keeper of the above vehicle. I am writing to lodge a formal complaint regarding your company's refusal to issue a POPLA code, and your unlawful insistence that I must identify the driver.

    Specifically:

    On [date] I raised an appeal with your company against the above PCN.

    On [date] your Legal Department sent me a template letter unlawfully refusing to deal with my appeal and stating that:

    "We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been referred for further information. You have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and and time of the breach of the terms and conditions of the car park, but you have not indicated who was. Please provide this additional information within the next 7 days. We will place the outstanding charge on hold for a further 14 days to give you time to do so."


    This is a clear breach of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and the BPA Code of Practice both of which make provision for the Registered Keeper to handle this matter, and most certainly do not impose any obligation whatsoever on the Registered Keeper to identify the driver, as you appear to be implying.

    Accordingly I have now made formal complaints to Steve Clarke of the BPA and also to the DVLA concerning your unlawful conduct in obstructing my legal right, as the Registered Keeper, to appeal to POPLA.

    Further, I find it impossible to believe that, as a Solicitor and head of the company's Legal Department, you are unaware of the provisions of POFA 2012. I am therefore forced to the reluctant conclusion that you have sanctioned this dishonest interpretation of the law by your company, for its own ends.

    I take the view that such conduct amounts to a serious breach of the Principles set out in the SRA Handbook Vol. 8, published on 1st October 2013. Accordingly I am now preparing a formal complaint to the SRA requesting an investigation into the practices of your Legal Department, and of you personally as Supervising Solicitor of the Legal Department.

    PLEASE NOTE: In the circumstances I expect you to cancel this charge, however if you refuse to do so, you should send me a verification code in order that I may pursue an appeal to POPLA as the Registered Keeper as is my lawful right.

    I require your reply within 14 days.


    Yours faithfully

    PRINT NAME

    I would like to draft a letter similar to this as PE sent me the same template letter despite me asking for a POPLA code in my initial appeal. Can you tell me who do I address it to as the template letter I got from them simply say "the parking eye team"
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    • Redx
    • By Redx 2nd Feb 14, 3:15 PM
    • 22,766 Posts
    • 28,972 Thanks
    Redx
    I would like to draft a letter similar to this as PE sent me the same template letter despite me asking for a POPLA code in my initial appeal. Can you tell me who do I address it to as the template letter I got from them simply say "the parking eye team"
    Originally posted by nicctaylor
    I thought it was obvious myself

    For the personal attention of Ms Ledson (Supervising Solicitor)


    FORMAL COMPLAINT


    Dear Ms Ledson
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Feb 14, 3:59 PM
    • 73,739 Posts
    • 85,880 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I take it you are also complaining to the BPA and DVLA as per the usual advice in the 'NEWBIES read these FAQs first' sticky thread?

    And why is this post on this unrelated thread which is by martmonk about an Equality Act issue?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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