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  • FIRST POST
    android26
    Parking Eye final Debt Recovery letter
    • #1
    • 19th Sep 13, 12:20 PM
    Parking Eye final Debt Recovery letter 19th Sep 13 at 12:20 PM
    Hello. Initially I have followed advice of ignoring all PE letters. At first I didn't even know I had them as they looked like junk mail and got filed as such. I am trying not to give anything away that might identify me, so please ask if more detail are required.

    I am the RK of the car in question. The car overstayed in a retail park with free parking for 2 hours, by no more than half an hour. I a receipt, from the first shop. I have the final shop receipt timed minutes before finally leaving, having spent about 50 mins to an hour in there. We were genuine shoppers.

    I have tried to find out the landowner details. I've got as far the estate agents but no further. Stores head offices are reluctant to give me email addresses of customer services managers let alone names and all have said they aren't interested in helping getting the charge quashed as they only rent the properties.

    Now I am at the stage of Debt Recovery Plus, Notice of intended court action. The final payment date is very soon. I have called PE four times over the months asking to speak to someone, find out the land owner and asked for confirmation that they have permission to issue charges. Each time the call was ended by them. I spoke again today and as I couldn't give my ref no. they would only suggest trying an appeal even at this very late stage, although they wouldn't say if it would be considered.

    I am now concerned as I have been reading that PE have become litigious and suspect that I will now receive a Letter before court action any day.

    Any advice on my next move?
    I am thinking;
    Try an appeal today, if only to get a POPLA code
    POPLA appeal if I get a code
    Lose appeal? Then pay up or let it go to court and show that I was a genuine shopper and argue the charge.

    All advice appreciated. Thanks.

    (I will copy and paste on pepipoo as as well as time really is of the essence!)

    Letters received;
    PCN
    PCN reminder
    Letter saying requirements of schedule 4 now met
    Letter Before Action
    Debt Recovery Plus Demand for payment
    Debt Recovery Plus Notice of intended court action-unpaid parking charge
    Last edited by android26; 23-09-2013 at 2:38 PM. Reason: missed out schedule 4 letter
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Sep 13, 12:47 PM
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    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 19th Sep 13, 12:47 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Sep 13, 12:47 PM
    PE are known to cancel PCNs if receipts can be produced for the day in question. I believe there must be something in their contract with the retailers that provides for this. After all, which retailer in their right mind would want to have some outsider persecuting their customers who surely wouldn't go back anywhere near them ever again. Oh dear, I'd forgotten about Aldi.

    So I think it well worth your while sending PE a letter with copies of your receipts and/or redacted bank/cc statements. If you've got a number of receipts I'd do a itemised list like:

    1. ABC shop - receipt for x - timed at....
    2. DEF shop - receipt for y - timed at....

    and so on. Make it look nice and professional and see how that goes. Let us know how it plays out.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 19-09-2013 at 12:51 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • android26
    • #3
    • 19th Sep 13, 12:53 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Sep 13, 12:53 PM
    Thanks. Much appreciated.
    I am just waiting to hear from the estate agents of the site. No one will tell me who the land owner is or get involved.
    I have had some help and sympathy from an area manager of one store.
    Nothing that would help in getting the charge quashed though.
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 19th Sep 13, 1:59 PM
    • 3,547 Posts
    • 5,240 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    • #4
    • 19th Sep 13, 1:59 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Sep 13, 1:59 PM
    Stores head offices are reluctant to give me email addresses of customer services managers let alone names
    Originally posted by android26
    What kind of Customer Services Manager hides away from their Customers and won't allow themselves to be identified by name or contacted in any way? One wonders how they came by that job title, as clearly they have no interest in servicing their customers.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Sep 13, 6:29 PM
    • 73,449 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 19th Sep 13, 6:29 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Sep 13, 6:29 PM
    Thanks. Much appreciated.
    I am just waiting to hear from the estate agents of the site. No one will tell me who the land owner is or get involved.
    I have had some help and sympathy from an area manager of one store.
    Nothing that would help in getting the charge quashed though.
    Originally posted by android26

    The managing agent of the site should be able to overturn it if you make yourself something of a thorn in their side. Don't give up.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • android26
    • #6
    • 23rd Sep 13, 2:52 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Sep 13, 2:52 AM
    Right, I have been doing the research on here and the pepipoo site.
    A number of interesting points that could help me, should the estate agents not come through for me.

    I've clicked on so many links that lead to another and so on, I must have twenty tabs open and I'm lost!

    A couple of things I need clarification on is the letter referred to as "Letter Before Action". I have a letter that says "Letter Before Action". It was letter 3 from PE. Number 1 being NTK, 2 being a reminder. Letter 4 was from Debt Recovery Plus, 5 also from them giving me until date xyz to pay up, before they recommend to creditors solicitors to start court action.

    My question is this; is it the same as the letter currently being referred to as "Letter Before Action" which has to mention Practice Direction?
    To me, the action that came from mine was to pass the charge on to Debt RP to send me more letters. It would seem to me that there is another "Letter Before Action" that occurs after Debt RC have passed t back to PE, as a warning that court action will be taken.
    Have I got that right?
    If anyone wants me to pm them a copy of the letter to have a look then I will.

    Another point about NTK's having to show the creditor. Mine is pre May, and apparently doesn't. However it shows me who to pay the money to with a PO box number. There is an address in small print on the bottom of the back page. Are they meant to say "we PE, are the creditors"?

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by android26; 23-09-2013 at 2:55 AM.
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 23rd Sep 13, 9:34 AM
    • 12,134 Posts
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    zzzLazyDaisy
    • #7
    • 23rd Sep 13, 9:34 AM
    • #7
    • 23rd Sep 13, 9:34 AM
    You should NEVER ignore a Letter Before Action as it is the first step in the court process.

    Please post up the wording of the Letter Before Action and the date, so we can check what it says and whether it really is a Letter Before Action, since you seem to be confused about this.

    D
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
  • android26
    • #8
    • 23rd Sep 13, 3:25 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Sep 13, 3:25 PM
    I missed out the letter before this in my initial post.
    It was a letter saying requirements of schedule 4 now met and had a leaflet with points of PoFA 2012, on it.
    Then some six weeks later, I got this one.
    I ignored it and the next two letters were from Debt Recovery Plus.
    Last edited by android26; 25-09-2013 at 8:18 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Sep 13, 11:30 PM
    • 73,449 Posts
    • 85,554 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 23rd Sep 13, 11:30 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Sep 13, 11:30 PM
    I missed out the letter before this in my initial post.
    It was a letter saying requirements of schedule 4 now met and had a leaflet with points of PoFA 2012, on it.
    Then some six weeks later, I got this one.
    I ignored it and the next two letters were from Debt Recovery Plus.

    No image as I can't link as a new user
    Originally posted by android26

    Yes you can if you break the link by removing the http://
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • android26
    Let's see if that's any good

    img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/vaiolator/parking%20eye/reduced-size-IMG_0005-1.jpg
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 25th Sep 13, 8:57 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    Okay, that is a letter before action. You must have received that some time ago as they changed the format of that letter several weeks ago.

    What is the date on it?

    This means you really do need to act quickly because once 14 days have passed from service of the LBA they can start court proceedings without further notice, unless you acknowledge the letter before they do so.

    Go to this thread and read post 1 and then go to post 45 and follow the instructions

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4705657&highlight=letter+before+a ction+fight+back

    Note: If you don't follow this advice there is a high risk that you WILL eventually end up with court papers dropping through your door because PE are targeting ignorers. Trust me, the Practice Direction process is much less time consuming and stressful than defending court proceedings.

    D
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
  • android26
    Hello and thanks for the reply. I got that letter three months or so ago.
    It doesn't look it is anything other than a warning for further action, ie. the subsequent Debt Rec + letters.
    I guess that's the reason for non compliance, so I didn't think it was anything important.
    Would that go against them in court as much as my ignoring it would against me?
    Looks like I have some more reading to do in the next few days!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 26th Sep 13, 6:08 AM
    • 23,712 Posts
    • 37,934 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    OP see my post #2. Do you have any receipts (or bank/cc statements) for your shopping trip that day? If you do, then you need to be getting these off to PE, even at this stage.

    The person I was helping (off forum) was at a very similar LBA stage with PE and receipts were the key to getting the charge cancelled - pronto.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 26-09-2013 at 7:17 AM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • android26
    Thanks Umkomaas.
    Your suggestion was tried many months ago, but I do appreciate the replies, and it is also helpful for anyone coming here from a google search.

    I've spoken to the parking co many times and told them about receipts and asked if I were to appeal even though it was past the 28 days, would it be successful. I was told it was not necessarily grounds for a cancellation. They would not let me speak to anyone else, even though on one occasion I heard the lady on the phone asking around the office for someone to talk to me, which surprised me that she'd bothered! I also found who I believed to be the management co. at the site. The person I spoke to said they didn't run it so that avenue ground to a halt.

    A second round of the same thing has been under way from the day I first posted. We shall see if anything more positive comes from it this time.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 26th Sep 13, 11:50 AM
    • 23,712 Posts
    • 37,934 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Thanks Umkomaas.
    Your suggestion was tried many months ago, but I do appreciate the replies, and it is also helpful for anyone coming here from a google search.

    I've spoken to the parking co many times and told them about receipts and asked if I were to appeal even though it was past the 28 days, would it be successful. I was told it was not necessarily grounds for a cancellation. They would not let me speak to anyone else, even though on one occasion I heard the lady on the phone asking around the office for someone to talk to me, which surprised me that she'd bothered! I also found who I believed to be the management co. at the site. The person I spoke to said they didn't run it so that avenue ground to a halt.

    A second round of the same thing has been under way from the day I first posted. We shall see if anything more positive comes from it this time.
    Originally posted by android26
    To be honest, talking to a PPC has hardly ever produced positive results - the fob-off is stock-in-trade for them.

    If you haven't already done it, and I won't harp on about it again, I would, despite their 28-day deadline, write with copies of the receipts. It really has worked many, many times with PE, that one can only deduce that there is some hidden clause in their contract with the principal whereby proof of shopping/purchase 'unlocks the door'.

    If you have already written on this basis, sorry to have laboured the point - just trying to help you find a (easy) way around this.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • android26
    No worries... It is a point worth labouring. Ultimately not paying with the minimum of hassle is the goal for all of us. Winning at POPLA is good. Winning at court is even better, if you have the time to manage a defence. It would certainly provide a sense of achievement.

    Incidentally, I think I have found a door. Just need to find the right key.
  • android26
    Just a quick update.
    Charge cancelled
    I didn't want to say until I had the confirmation.

    I got in touch with the agents of the landlord just before my original post. I wasn't hopeful and therefore came on her to ask advice as to which direction to take should the agent not come through with a solution.

    I had done much of the reading in the previous months so I had a bit of a head start, luckily. I still had to get my head around the new and more current opinions and arguments.

    If there are any moderators or admins with specific interest in or information on the "genuine shopper" argument, please feel free to pm me as I may need some further assistance if I take things further.

    Thank you all that replied and to those that have shared their info and experiences over the site, especially those that have had far more important things to be attending to.
    Last edited by android26; 27-09-2013 at 2:12 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Sep 13, 10:50 AM
    • 23,712 Posts
    • 37,934 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Well done Android - excellent result. Glad to have pestered helped you in some way
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • android26
    Annoying thing is, I researched for ages and was in contact with the agents when I first became aware of the pcn. Unfortunately I was told then that they did not know this retail park. If only I had been informed correctly....
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Sep 13, 7:08 PM
    • 73,449 Posts
    • 85,554 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done for persevering with being a thorn in their side!

    I have added your success so other newbies can see it, in this sticky thread at the top of the forum:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

    Just look how PE complaints outnumber all the other PPCs added together - and I have collated EVERY successful complain that I have read about on here and on pepipoo forums over the last 8 weeks.

    Shame on PE; a pariah and a parasite company!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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