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  • Brackley
    Just wanted to update you guys
    I have been chasing the retailer and have hopefully got the ticket cancelled. I am waiting to hear from the store manager and will then contact parking eye to check the status. Still not fully believing this will be the case and still working on my defence!
    I have been told that the ticket can be cancelled but I will still have to pay the solicitor/court fees as the claim has already been Made-Not that I'm complaining just interested now in seeing this whole thing through to the end and if the ticket is cancelled I will be very happy obviously but still would like to know where I stand legally/morally on the sol/court fees.
    Anyone have any ideas on this?
    I'm still working on the defence so please keep the offers of reading it open but fingers crossed it may not be needed this time.....
    However still very much active on this!
    I'll be back tomorrow to update

    Thank you all out there again and again!
    Last edited by Brackley; 10-09-2013 at 8:35 PM. Reason: Added info
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 10th Sep 13, 8:53 PM
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    Guys Dad
    Seen this on other threads.

    Seem to remember they want 50 or so. Isn't that where you started when you decided not to pay?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Sep 13, 8:58 PM
    • 23,706 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    I've skim-read your thread and haven't spotted who the retailer was, but it's looking remarkably like Aldi and that you've probably had a chat with Ms Rachel Organ at Aldi's Parking Department.

    If so, (and I apologise if I'm wrong), then Aldi are as much in on this scam as PE (not necessarily in terms of direct financial involvement, but in terms of supporting PE in chasing their admin and solicitor fees for cancelling the charge).

    The main job (whether or not this is Aldi) is to get written confirmation of the cancellation from the organ grinder (no pun intended there Rachel ) especially if the monkey is still going to try to pursue this.

    Let us know how it goes - more advice as matters progress.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 10th Sep 13, 10:56 PM
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    zzzLazyDaisy
    The first thing to do is to get the principal to confirm IN WRITING that they have instructed PE to cancel the charge. You need this as evidence in your defence. It depends what they say in the letter as to how you can use it. Normally what happens is that the Principal confirms the cancellation of the charge with no conditions attached.

    But here's the thing - PE then write to you and tell you that you must pay 50 as a condition of cancelling the charge, but they notify you of this in a 'without prejudice letter' - which means the letter cannot be shown to the court. So all the court knows is that the charge has been cancelled and you cannot complain to the court about this condition. Of course if you refuse to pay the 50, PE refuse to cancel the charge and the whole claim continues. Basically it is smoke and mirrors - nothing PE do is ever straight forward.

    It would be a legitimate offer to settle if the cancellation was made subject to the payment of the 50 fee in an open letter, as that would be the terms of the offer, but that is not normally how they do it. Which is why you need to get something in writing to confirm the charge has been cancelled (and see if the 'subject to payment of costs' is included in that letter).

    Of course you can just pay the 50 fee and put an end to the court case (not recommending this, but just pointing out it is an option open to you).

    Let us know when you have the confirmation in writing from the retailer and what it says, as this can also be put to good use in the Defence

    D
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Sep 13, 11:15 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Echoing what zzzLazyDaisy says above and to say that we have seen this 50 'without prejudice letter' posted several times before.

    My view would be no way would I pay their so-called 'wasted costs' (that's for PE or Aldi to pick up as they have harassed you when, if you had known, you could have got this cancelled earlier). The point is that the contract between them secretly hides a term known as the 'genuine customer exemption' whereby PE will cancel a fake PCN if a customer shows a receipt of 30 or more. And yet...do they bother to tell customers that in any signage on site or letter from PE or on the Aldi CS desk? Nope.

    As discussed here (post #16 by me posting on pepipoo as SchoolRunMum) I suggest that this is a 'misleading omission' which caused you to be in this situation now:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=80716&st=0

    So in my view it's PE that have caused the matter to escalate to your potential loss/detriment and that is an unfair hidden term that should be communicated with the people who are likely to suffer by it (customers). PE reckon the driver entered into a 'contract' and then breached it - and yet do not tell you the 'get-out clause'.

    For that reason I would decline their kind offer of the 50 'costs' if it were me, or I would pay it and then consider suing Aldi for it!

    That is just one point for defence, BTW, there are lots as you will have already seen from the links previously given. And you are right to realise that you still have to defend this matter because you can't assume the small claim is withdrawn (it won't be yet) if the Supermarket wants the charge cancelled.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 10-09-2013 at 11:17 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 10th Sep 13, 11:44 PM
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    zzzLazyDaisy
    And just to add to C-M's comments about the 'secret clause'... once you have filed the defence and received PE's response, you will be making a request for Disclosure of Documents for copies of the contract (s) which PE relies on - including the contract with Aldi.

    But that is jumping ahead... Focus on getting the defence sorted for now.

    D
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
  • Brackley
    reading info now will reply this evening thanks all
    Last edited by Brackley; 11-09-2013 at 11:41 AM. Reason: old message appeared
  • Brackley
    very quickly
    parking ticket was given in a retail park car park with a number of retailers- I shopped in Halfords bought cycle helmet for my 2 year old but with cash

    again will read comments in full tonight
    thank you all
  • Brackley
    Evening all- as usual thank you all again.
    an update....
    Halfords will not send a letter showing that they have asked for the parking charge to be cancelled, but the manager has agreed to send me a fax with this info on it- this would be Ok right? If its not arrived at my workplace by tomorrow I will be chasing it up. The manager seems extremely nice and told me he was happy for me to call him back if the fax did not include all the necessary info-do I suggest to the manager that he include in his wording in this fax that I do not have the ticket cancelled 'subject to payment of costs' - if he would do this (prob not likely)but....

    Also I have no evidence that I spent money in Halfords on this day as I paid for my items in cash and cannot find receipts....does this matter with regards the 'genuine customer exemption' whereby PE will cancel a fake PCN if a customer shows a receipt of 30 or more-I'm thinking it will as I would have to show the receipt in my evidence right?

    Coupon Mad ...your thread suggestions are helping me currently write/cut/paste my defense thank you
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Sep 13, 11:42 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    It's too late to get PE to cancel it on the 'genuine customer exemption' rule of course - but it should certainly be cited as a 'misleading omission' under CPUTR 2008 in your defence I think, even with no receipts now. Point being, if you had known ON THE DAY about the get-out-of-jail-free card then you could have asked Halfords to get it cancelled whilst you still had your receipt in your hand. But because PE send postal PCNs days/weeks later (was the first PCN letter received within 14 days of the incident?) you had no chance to do anything and the possibility was never communicated to you as a customer = the person who stood to be penalised by the omitted/hidden term.

    Glad you are getting the defence sorted - but you need to take a leaf out of this person's book re putting a complaint on Halford's facebook page:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82791

    ''Halfords were absolutely brilliant - their Social Media Team had sorted it out within 48 hours and text me back via their Facebook website to confirm that Parking Eye had revoked the charge. They have the same car parking as the other stores but took ownership of my request for help and I can't praise them enough - pity the other weren't as focussed on customer care they could learn a few things from Halfords.''

    {posted today and he says he isn't even going to be chased for that ridiculous 50 costs that PE keep 'offering to settle for' when the retailer tells them to stop!}

    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-09-2013 at 11:49 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • nigelbb
    • By nigelbb 12th Sep 13, 5:15 AM
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    nigelbb
    In the small claims it should be sufficient for you to declare in your evidence that you were a customer of Halfords. Cases are decided on the balance of probabilities & a statement of truth is sufficient proof of any evidence as lying to the court is a very serious offence as you will get sent to prison for committing perjury.
  • Brackley
    morning...
    thank you CM

    have facebook messaged Halfords so awaiting response.....
    still waiting for my fax from Halfords too....
    working on defence....

    when this is all over I will be well equipped to help others just like I have been helped
    thanks all
  • Brackley
    hello all
    quick update...
    tickets cancelled by Halfords- I have a fax to say that the y have cancelled the 100 charge. Received the 'without prejudice letter' from PE and the 50.....sounding familiar??!!!
    I have also emailed Halfords customer services & CEO, had a response from both that this was being looked into so will be chasing this on Monday...am hoping this may just get things sorted?!!
    still working on my defense...behind schedule a little as things a mad at work and my 2 1/2 year old has been sick...thanks to CM a lot of cut and pasting is helping to create my defense- but please hold on i'm getting there

    thank you all
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Sep 13, 8:36 PM
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    Umkomaas
    Well done Brackley on getting some of this cancelled, especially by calling in the Principal, not only in trying to resolve your situation, but very importantly dragging them in to the front line and making them aware of the persecution of their customers (who they will need to rely on long after the ink on the PCN has dried).

    These are the guys charged with ensuring customer satisfaction, loyalty and company profitability. They operate at strategic level and will soon recognise, with enough complaints, that their business model is wholly incompatible with that of the PPC - and a point I think should be driven home in complaints.

    And there is one other higher tier of 'interest' here, and that is the shareholder, who will have an even greater pecuniary concern in anything or anyone who threatens their future dividends.

    Thinking about how we might tackle this stratum.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 14-09-2013 at 9:58 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Sep 13, 10:03 PM
    • 73,322 Posts
    • 85,446 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    hello all
    quick update...
    tickets cancelled by Halfords- I have a fax to say that the y have cancelled the 100 charge. Received the 'without prejudice letter' from PE and the 50.....sounding familiar??!!!
    I have also emailed Halfords customer services & CEO, had a response from both that this was being looked into so will be chasing this on Monday...am hoping this may just get things sorted?!!
    still working on my defense...behind schedule a little as things a mad at work and my 2 1/2 year old has been sick...thanks to CM a lot of cut and pasting is helping to create my defense- but please hold on i'm getting there

    thank you all
    Originally posted by Brackley



    Well done, this looks like panning out as a total success now, so I have added your thread to the sticky thread about complaints successes:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

    I know you have got the stupid 50 'without prejudice offer' but I would not pay it, seeing as this is a sneaky way of making people cough up some money anyway and you can't even mention it in court! Hope Halfords get PE to drop that as well but even if not I wouldn't pay it, why should you?

    Hopefully if you ring the court next week then they may confirm that PE have withdrawn the claim but you are quite right to carry on and if need be, submit a defence, one point of which will be that PE have no cause of action because the principal has cancelled the spurious ticket. And anyway, PE had a legal duty to 'mitigate any loss' so should have made it clear to you at the outset (in signage or on the ticket or early letters) that there was a secret term 'genuine customer exemption' that you could have used to get it cancelled all along.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 16th Sep 13, 9:20 PM
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    zzzLazyDaisy
    Hi when does your defence have to be in? I haven't been posting for a couple of days so a bit behind, but I will have a look tomorrow at giving you a couple of opening paragraphs for the defence dealing with preliminary issues (including the fact that the Principal has cancelled the charge).

    I can't stress enought that you must continue to treat the court proceedings as being live, and you must still file a full defence and comply with deadlines until the COURT has confirmed that the action has been formally withdrawn.

    D
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
  • Brackley
    Hello all
    So sorry I've been absent. I've been sick for the last week and have had to leave all this in the hands of my partner!
    Didn't want to leave things in the air in case anyone else needed support and advice regarding these terrible parking eye people.
    All has been resolved I'm pleased to say- the ticket was cancelled and Halfords agreed to cover/pay the 50.

    I've learnt many things from all of this
    1. Don't be frightened to stand up for what you believe is right
    2. Always contact the store/CEO & document any communications
    3. THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE OUT THERE WILLING TO HELP!!!

    I thank all those that helped and offered such terrific advise and support.
    Zzzlazydaisy and coupon mad you are truly some of the nice guys! You are really appreciated.
    Thank you

    Anyone else reading this ...if you're looking for help and support you're in the right place! Just start asking

    THANK YOU ALL :-)
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 25th Sep 13, 7:34 PM
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    zzzLazyDaisy
    Yayyyyyy!!!! Another poster with a place in Coupon's Hall of Fame!!!

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

    Thanks for reporting back on your success!

    Daisy
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Sep 13, 10:52 PM
    • 73,322 Posts
    • 85,446 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I thank all those that helped and offered such terrific advise and support.
    Zzzlazydaisy and coupon mad you are truly some of the nice guys!
    Originally posted by Brackley

    We are both nice girls!

    But well done and you have a place in the Hall of Fame sticky thread of course, near the top of the forum so others can see how to complain and succeed (and indeed to show that Halfords have shown more than once that they care about their customers). The sticky thread is showing Halfords and Welcome Break as being pretty good at cancelling these, among other retailers/services.

    Let's hope Halfords and other retailers act upon these complaints in the long run, and realise that a camera controlled scam PPC firm has no place in a customer service environment like a retail car park.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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