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    • razar
    • By razar 12th Aug 13, 1:37 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 15Thanks
    razar
    Parking Eye LBA
    • #1
    • 12th Aug 13, 1:37 PM
    Parking Eye LBA 12th Aug 13 at 1:37 PM
    Hi all, back in January I received a PCN from Parking Eye.
    I had used a retail car park in Swadlincote but outstayed my welcome, 4hrs 16mins in a 4 hour maximum stay free CP.
    This has since been extended to 6 hours after complaints from locals and retailers.
    After reading replies and advice here I have so far ignored all correspondence from PE and DRP Ltd.
    I have now received a LBA letter dated 26/7/2013, so too late to respond to it now.
    All my mail goes to my sisters as for the past year I've been living in a caravan in South Wales since my retirement, but don't feel sorry for me! :-)
    I've alerted her to notify me instantly if a court order comes as I intend to challenge it in court.

    The charges are 100 plus 50 solicitors fee and 15 court claim fee.
    They seem to have dropped the 50 that Debt Recovery + had added!
    I would much appreciate advice and support should I have to go to court and also wonder if I can choose Swansea for the hearing, baring in mind my postal address is in the Midlands?
    Cheers!
Page 1
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 12th Aug 13, 1:43 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    • #2
    • 12th Aug 13, 1:43 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Aug 13, 1:43 PM
    It is not to late to respond to the LBA

    They give you 14 days to reply, after that they can start court proceedings - but you can respond at any time up until they do start proceedings

    So do it NOW!

    Go to this thread, follow the instructions and get a letter off to them straight away

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4705657
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 12th Aug 13, 2:57 PM
    • 10,847 Posts
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    Guys Dad
    • #3
    • 12th Aug 13, 2:57 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Aug 13, 2:57 PM
    You could be off the hook and owe nothing.

    Read here http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Parking-time-limits-to-be-increased-after-complaints-20130207080000.htm,

    I would use that, appeal to the retail park and as, in order to preserve the good relationship with the council, please cancel the charge.
    • razar
    • By razar 12th Aug 13, 3:15 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    razar
    • #4
    • 12th Aug 13, 3:15 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Aug 13, 3:15 PM
    Cheers, I was aware of that and have spoke to the manager of the Odeon cinema who although sympathetic wasn't able to help.
    I didn't Pursue it further as all advice was to just ignore!
    It's not that I can't afford to pay its the principal!
    I will take the advice offered by zzzLazyDaisy above but hope if it comes to court it may form part of my defence.
    I would actually like to go to court and win! In order to strike a blow against PE and their ilk.
    Unlike many being retired I do have the time for this!
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 12th Aug 13, 3:28 PM
    • 10,847 Posts
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    Guys Dad
    • #5
    • 12th Aug 13, 3:28 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Aug 13, 3:28 PM
    Why not contact Adrian Goodall, Rokeby director direct and ask him if he will extend a goodwill cancellation to you? Copy the councillor in as well. Make it a nice, pleasant letter.
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 12th Aug 13, 3:53 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    • #6
    • 12th Aug 13, 3:53 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Aug 13, 3:53 PM
    I agree with Guys Dad - the whole point is to dispose of this matter without the need to go to court - at whatever means are at your disposal.

    There are never any guarantees in litgation, and more importantly, it is a whole lot of stress that most people could do without. As for striking a blow - sadly that isn't going to happen. Why? Because at SCC level one court's decision cannot bind another. So no matter how many people win against the PPCs there is nothing to stop them carrying on and winning against people who have weak cases, or poor presentation of their case on the day.

    Whay it needs is a decision of an appeal court that would be binding on the lower courts - but the PPCs are not going to appeal decisions that go against them, because they don't want to run the risk of losing at a higher court an killing the golden goose - and ordinary people who lose at SCC level can't afford the 1000's that it costs to appeal a decision.

    It's up to you, but I would take the path of least resistance - after all, if Mr Goodall doesn't come good for you, then you haven't lost anything!

    Daisy
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • razar
    • By razar 23rd Aug 13, 2:06 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    razar
    • #7
    • 23rd Aug 13, 2:06 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Aug 13, 2:06 PM
    Latest update; I wrote the recommended letter in my own words but included the advised bullet points and posted it on 13/08/2013 and have proof of posting.
    I also emailed mr Goodall and cc the local councillor, haven't received a reply from mr Goodall but the councillor did reply saying that he'd heard of such issues before!
    Today I have received a "Letter before County Court Claim" written in red!
    The letter is exactly the same as the previous LBA letter.
    Still awaiting a reply to my response to that, which by the way I also emailed them.
    Cheers Ray.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Aug 13, 5:48 PM
    • 73,486 Posts
    • 85,599 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 23rd Aug 13, 5:48 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Aug 13, 5:48 PM
    Latest update; I wrote the recommended letter in my own words but included the advised bullet points and posted it on 13/08/2013 and have proof of posting.
    I also emailed mr Goodall and cc the local councillor, haven't received a reply from mr Goodall but the councillor did reply saying that he'd heard of such issues before!
    Today I have received a "Letter before County Court Claim" written in red!
    The letter is exactly the same as the previous LBA letter.
    Still awaiting a reply to my response to that, which by the way I also emailed them.
    Cheers Ray.
    Originally posted by razar


    "Letter before County Court Claim" has 3 or 4 threads already this week; here's one with a nice outcome relevant to fire you up to get yours cancelled too:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4736170

    See the response I suggested to send to PE as well (Plan A or Plan B as a response to that LBCCC) but do change the wording as we don't recommend exact template repeats of letters like this, especially as you are trying to avoid a small claim at this late stage. Follow up your complaint as well and show them the latest threatogram.

    HTH
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 23-08-2013 at 5:51 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 24th Aug 13, 2:52 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
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    zzzLazyDaisy
    • #9
    • 24th Aug 13, 2:52 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Aug 13, 2:52 PM
    Sorry for the quickie, but if you go to post 32 on this thread, you'll see my comments, Dx

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4730763&page=2
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • razar
    • By razar 29th Aug 13, 10:20 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    razar
    Still haven't received a reply to my late response to the LBA, but as previously mentioned I received a LBCCC on the 23rd of this month.
    As yet I haven't acknowledged this as I was hoping to receive their usual Template letter.
    None of the letters received have required a signature! and all my letters go to my sisters which then have to be reposted to me, wherever I may be at the time.
    I did mention this in my response to the LBA, could this be used as mitigating circumstances in my defence? and should I be preparing it now?
    My emails to other parties have proved unsuccessfull, as this one from the Odeon cinema manager.
    "I am sorry to hear of your ongoing issue with regards to your parking fine incurred from your visit to us. In answer to your question, regrettably I'm afraid I cannot offer any other advice to the previous time that we spoke. We have no jurisdiction over the car park as it isn't just our company that is situated here and as such we have no say in any matters that arise like yours.

    All I am able to advise is conversing with Parking Eye directly about the mitigating circumstances of you having to pay attention to the walkways, so as not to slip and that the parking allowance has since been extended to 6 hours. However I'm sure you will have already taken this measure.

    Once again, I'm sorry that there is no other way in which we can assist you in this regrettable situation but I do hope you get a speedy resolution and one that is to your satisfaction."

    This is where I'm at at present!

    Ray.
    Last edited by razar; 29-08-2013 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Predictive text used wrong word
    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank.
    Give a man a bank and he can rob everyone!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Aug 13, 10:37 AM
    • 73,486 Posts
    • 85,599 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Still haven't received a reply to my late response to the LBA, but as previously mentioned I received a LBCCC on the 23rd of this month.
    As yet I haven't acknowledged this as I was hoping to receive their usual Template letter.
    None of the letters received have required a signature! and all my letters go to my sisters which then have to be reported to me, wherever I may be at the time.
    I did mention this in my response to the LBA, could this be used as mitigating circumstances in my defence? and should I be preparing it now?
    My emails to other parties have proved unsuccessfull, as this one from the Odeon cinema manager.
    "I am sorry to hear of your ongoing issue with regards to your parking fine incurred from your visit to us. In answer to your question, regrettably I'm afraid I cannot offer any other advice to the previous time that we spoke. We have no jurisdiction over the car park as it isn't just our company that is situated here and as such we have no say in any matters that arise like yours.

    All I am able to advise is conversing with Parking Eye directly about the mitigating circumstances of you having to pay attention to the walkways, so as not to slip and that the parking allowance has since been extended to 6 hours. However I'm sure you will have already taken this measure.

    Once again, I'm sorry that there is no other way in which we can assist you in this regrettable situation but I do hope you get a speedy resolution and one that is to your satisfaction."

    This is where I'm at at present!

    Ray.
    Originally posted by razar


    So it's not the Odeon who contracted PE then, it's Rokeby. I see you say you also emailed Adrian Goodall, Rokeby director, so if no reply to that, then send him a letter, snail mail. Maybe he never got the email but he will get his post.

    Enclose a copy of the newspaper article, and PE's latest threatograms, and say how this harassment by PE is making you upset and ill, all because you visited the Retail Park as a genuine customer (attach copy receipts if you have them) and apparently were filmed by PE as being there 4hrs 16mins in a 4 hour maximum stay free CP. And yet their cameras film a car on arrival and on exit, not actual parking time at all so a mere 7% extra time alleged overstay, including any typical 10 - 15 minute (industry requirement) 'reasonable grace period' is minimal to say the least! And say that you are aware that not only has the time been extended to six hours now due to other complaints, but also you know that PE's own industry code of practice requires them to allow a grace period at such car parks to allow arrival, queueing for a space, parking, reading any signs, etc. before deciding to stay (then a similar extra allowance to get in the car, queue up towards the exit and leave).

    Say you feel victimised that their parking agent hasn't dropped these 'minimal overstay' cases now that chief executive of South Derbyshire District Council has stepped in and got the time increased. Say you were hoping it is an oversight that your ticket hasn't been rescinded 'yet'(!), but having emailed him and got no reply, and also having replied to PE but got a standard 'Letter Before County Court Action' for your troubles, you feel you have no option but to try this final letter before taking your complaint to the Local Councillor and the British Parking Association and the DVLA as an official complaint.

    Why not just send the same letter to PE now and make it clear from the 'cc' at the top that the original has gone to Adrian Goodall the Director of Rokeby?

    Do not wait for PE to send their template reply following the LBA; there may be no such template now. They have switched tactics - going by other threads I have read - and that LBCCC is their latest offering and you haven't responded to it yet.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 29-08-2013 at 10:41 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 29th Aug 13, 11:07 AM
    • 12,134 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    Do not wait for PE to send their template reply following the LBA; there may be no such template now. They have switched tactics - going by other threads I have read - and that LBCCC is their latest offering and you haven't responded to it yet.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I agree with this.....

    It seems that PE have changed tack, and are now sending out this LBCCA instead of the aggressive 'stinky template letter' that they were sending out before. The LBCCA still doesn't comply with the PD (despite them saying it does) so basically, they have not read your earlier letter, and they have just sent a template letter which is just a watered down version of the earlier template letter - and tells you nothing.

    So the important thing is to keep the correspondence going and don't miss the deadline for replying (usually 14 days).

    So in essence the advice remains the same - write back to them, acknowledge their LBCCA, point out that it does not address the issues that you raised in your earlier letter and repeat your request for the information. Confirm that once they have provided the information requested you will prepare a formal Response, in accordance with the guidance contained in the Practice Direction Annex A, para 3, and you will forward this document to them within 30 days. Remind them that they must properly complete the steps set out in the Practice Direction before starting proceedings, and also remind them of the court's powers to sanction them for non-compliance under para 4 of the PD.

    Also if you go to the last post on the LBA Guidance Thread, you will find links to two threads where this has been discussed and responses suggested.

    I am not posting much at the moment, but I will update the Guidance Thread shortly to take account of this development.

    Daisy
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • razar
    • By razar 20th Sep 13, 10:14 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    razar
    Update.
    Today I received a copy of my latest letter from PE.
    Quote...

    " Dear Sir/Madam,

    We refer to the parking charge incurred on 24 January 2013 at 15.32, at Swadlingcote Retail Park.

    We can confirm that this charge has been cancelled and there is no outstanding payment due on this account.

    Kind Regards

    ParkingEye Team"

    No mention of my last two letters to them but this was a result of an email I sent to the PA to the Chief Executive & Leader of the Council South Derbyshire District Council.

    She forwarded my email to Knight Frank for their intervention.
    In her email she said "We would be grateful if you could kindly assist, as you have with previous requests.
    We hope that this will be the last of the outstanding remittances."

    So I think this reinforces the advice to email anyone relevant to your case in the hope that one will take the time to read it and make an effort to help.
    No point at all trying to appeal to the good nature of the "ParkingEye Team"

    Thanks to all who gave me advice and encouragement on here and good luck to everyone in a similar situation.
    There is light at the end of the tunnel
    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank.
    Give a man a bank and he can rob everyone!
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 20th Sep 13, 10:27 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    WELL DONE.....

    No doubt when Coupon-Mad sees this, you will find a place in her Hall of Fame

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

    Daisy
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Sep 13, 6:18 PM
    • 73,486 Posts
    • 85,599 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done razar, you join the Hall of Fame sticky thread of successful complaints!

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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