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    • normal
    • By normal 14th Mar 18, 2:38 PM
    • 439 Posts
    • 104 Thanks
    normal
    Hi

    Please could you help. I have two parts to my problem.

    I was flying from Budapest to Tallinn, via Warsaw with LOT Airlines. The previous flight from Warsaw to Budapest was delayed because of bad weather. As a consequence, my flight from Budapest to Warsaw was delayed, I missed my connecting flight to Tallinn, and was given overnight accommodation near the airport, taking the flight to Tallinn the next day.

    I tried claiming for the delay in arriving at Tallinn, but LOT have refused on the grounds of 'extreme weather'. I'm not aware of any extreme weather that day in Warsaw, but I argued that they are referring to the delay of the flight from Warsaw to Budapest, which caused the delay of the plane for my journey. There were no weather problems for my flight from Budapest to Warsaw. It's not my problem if the plane for my journey wasn't at the departure airport in time. Am I right to argue this?

    Secondly, LOT are refusing to change their position, but they are also refusing to tell me who I can appeal to. (????) I have asked them twice. Who should I appeal LOT's decision to? UK/ Polish / Hungarian authorities, and which?

    Many thanks
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 14th Mar 18, 3:38 PM
    • 3,162 Posts
    • 2,079 Thanks
    jpsartre
    I'm not aware of any extreme weather that day in Warsaw, but I argued that they are referring to the delay of the flight from Warsaw to Budapest, which caused the delay of the plane for my journey. There were no weather problems for my flight from Budapest to Warsaw. It's not my problem if the plane for my journey wasn't at the departure airport in time. Am I right to argue this?
    Originally posted by normal
    Maybe, maybe not. Did the airline take all reasonable steps to avoid the delay? If not, then you qualify for compensation.
    • timodell
    • By timodell 16th Mar 18, 10:07 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    timodell
    BA Flight 0358 LHR to LYS 13:35 1 March cancelled by e-mail with no explanation at 20:02 on 28th Feb (after boarding card already issued) and rebooked on 07:50 on 2 March. Presumably I can claim EUR250 compensation as this seems to have been "pre-emptive consolidation" ahead of the anticipated bad weather - at that point there were no weather issues at LHR, nor were there any until late in the afternoon of the 1st March, so can't see how they can use the weather as an excuse...?
    Originally posted by timodell
    This is the reason given by BA for refusing the claim (even though the cancellation was made the previous day when bad weather was only a forecast and didn't in fact materialise until several hours after the flight was originally scheduled to depart.


    It’s common for the information we have about your cancelled flight to change quite often, so we try to only give you details that we feel are relevant and that you will find beneficial to your journey. We’re very grateful you contacted us as your comments help us make important changes to the way we handle cancellations. We always want to maintain a stable operation and we’ll only cancel an aircraft if we really have to, particularly as it affects our customers and their plans.

    I'm sorry to inform you that your claim’s been refused because BA0358 on 01 March was cancelled because of airfield restrictions being in place that were outside of our control, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.

    We take all reasonable measures to avoid cancelling a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. We’re very sorry the cancellation was necessary in this case.






    Flight compensation sites say they are willing to take up the case - can I appeal directly?
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 16th Mar 18, 10:08 AM
    • 11,199 Posts
    • 7,346 Thanks
    Caz3121
    probably best to be on the BA thread....there are a number of similar cases there
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 16th Mar 18, 10:24 AM
    • 3,162 Posts
    • 2,079 Thanks
    jpsartre
    Flight compensation sites say they are willing to take up the case - can I appeal directly?
    Originally posted by timodell
    Sure. I recently had Bott and Co take on a couple cases where my flight was proactively cancelled and both times they came back to say they were giving up the claim as they thought it was highly unlikely they could be won.
    • Hetheron
    • By Hetheron 16th Mar 18, 3:32 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Hetheron
    2018 update !!
    This week I teceived a phone call from one of those No Win No Fee firms about a delayed flight from Newcastle to Spain in July 2012 ! Nearly 6 years ago !
    It is coming up to the time I must claim by, apparently.
    Every long forgotten and unretreivable detail was quoted, time, day, booking reference with Thomas Cook etc etc
    Long and the short was that I let him send details via email but eventually found that the fee would be 30% of any payment to me, £15 paperwok fee and all plus Vat.
    No way !!! so I went to the MSE Site and using all the details I now held, I instigated my own claim using the brilliant "Resolver"
    Thomas Cook replied almost instantly via Resolver and sent a redeemable voucher woth !!!8364;900 to be used agaist any Thomas Cook hoilday but before March 2019
    I replied that vouchers were of no use to me and I wanted payment in cash via my bank
    A reply came stating the voucher was !!!8364;800 plus a good will payment of £200 giving !!!8364;900 in total.
    I replied once more, stating vouchers were of no use to me as all my holiday are already booked and passport would have expired by the final date, so as per the EU directive which states all claims are to be Paid in whichever EU countries legal tender, and that vouchers only need to be accepted if the claimant had signed and agreemt to accept vouchers and so accordingly I wanted my payment in cash
    Once more via Resolver and this time at 3.14 am, I received a further reply full of apologies and saying it was all soted out and to provide my bank details.
    This I did and was later informed that payment of !!!8364;800 ..presumably in equivalent British money would be paid in to my account and within 28 days.
    I must add that all this happened within 48 hours via Resolver contacting and passing on my replies to Thomas Cook who seem to have people working even at 3.14 am !!
    I now just have to wait and see if they do actualy make payment.

    A PS to all this is that I have just had the NWNF lot pursuing me via email which I replied to telling them I wasnt using them to proceed with claim and then within the last 10 minutes received two phone calls from them ..two different people...but think they got the message !
    Use MSE ALWAYS !!
    • JPears
    • By JPears 16th Mar 18, 4:02 PM
    • 3,684 Posts
    • 1,026 Thanks
    JPears
    And again hmmmm......
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • boatman
    • By boatman 20th Mar 18, 5:21 PM
    • 3,903 Posts
    • 2,790 Thanks
    boatman
    Been offered the full 600euro, yippee..

    How is it converted, because their conversion on the letter mentions £466(may just be a standard letter done ages ago when the rate was better), at current rates its more like £525, I guess its just the conversion on the day of the cheque getting written.
    I presume I can ask for a 600euro cheque instead of a £ one...?
    Last edited by boatman; 20-03-2018 at 5:41 PM. Reason: ii
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 20th Mar 18, 7:40 PM
    • 2,034 Posts
    • 608 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    Been offered the full 600euro, yippee..

    How is it converted, because their conversion on the letter mentions £466(may just be a standard letter done ages ago when the rate was better), at current rates its more like £525, I guess its just the conversion on the day of the cheque getting written.
    I presume I can ask for a 600euro cheque instead of a £ one...?
    Originally posted by boatman
    If the amount offered in GBP is better then take it!

    But yes you can insist on payment in Euros if thats what youd prefer.

    Well done a good result.

    Cheers,

    NoviceAngel
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

    Hi, we’ve had to remove part of your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • symphony63
    • By symphony63 21st Mar 18, 8:44 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    symphony63
    Been offered the full 600euro, yippee..

    How is it converted, because their conversion on the letter mentions £466(may just be a standard letter done ages ago when the rate was better), at current rates its more like £525, I guess its just the conversion on the day of the cheque getting written.
    I presume I can ask for a 600euro cheque instead of a £ one...?
    Originally posted by boatman
    These are the words of the judge in his ruling in the case of Blake v EasyJet:

    Where there are proceedings the sum crystallises on commencement because CPR provides that damages claimed in £ sterling for damages or compensation expressed in a foreign currency must use the conversion rate on the date proceedings are commenced. This must apply to compensation for a breach of Article 7 of the Regulation. This is consistent with the authorities which make it clear that the breach date does not have to be the date for the conversion rate in tort. On balance I think it is better to use the conversion rate when proceedings are commenced for litigated cases and the date of payment for claims settled before litigation and in neither case to use the breach date.”

    You should check the conversion of these 3 dates.
    • boatman
    • By boatman 21st Mar 18, 9:53 PM
    • 3,903 Posts
    • 2,790 Thanks
    boatman
    On the letter signed and returned to the airline it say 600euro, I guess I will just have to wait and see!!
    • strawberries1
    • By strawberries1 22nd Mar 18, 11:10 AM
    • 677 Posts
    • 146 Thanks
    strawberries1
    I received my cheque of £528 yesterday.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 22nd Mar 18, 12:05 PM
    • 3,684 Posts
    • 1,026 Thanks
    JPears
    Well done strawberries.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 22nd Mar 18, 12:55 PM
    • 2,034 Posts
    • 608 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    I received my cheque of £528 yesterday.
    Originally posted by strawberries1
    A good result
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • strawberries1
    • By strawberries1 23rd Mar 18, 8:21 AM
    • 677 Posts
    • 146 Thanks
    strawberries1
    It's thanks to the people of this forum who urge one to file!
    • JPears
    • By JPears 26th Mar 18, 5:25 PM
    • 3,684 Posts
    • 1,026 Thanks
    JPears
    Possibly contraversial musings, but a lot of airlines routinely refuse to compensate passengers that have a valid claim.
    The passenger then succeeds in gaining the compensation due either through ADR (rarely it would seem) or understandably, having handed their case over to a NWNF such as Botts.
    Is there a case to be made where such a circumstance has occurred ie initial refusal, to be later proved wrong and forced to pay a perfectly valid claim, that said airline should pay the considerable additional costs of having to use a company like Botts?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 26th Mar 18, 5:43 PM
    • 2,034 Posts
    • 608 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    Possibly contraversial musings, but a lot of airlines routinely refuse to compensate passengers that have a valid claim.
    The passenger then succeeds in gaining the compensation due either through ADR (rarely it would seem) or understandably, having handed their case over to a NWNF such as Botts.
    Is there a case to be made where such a circumstance has occurred ie initial refusal, to be later proved wrong and forced to pay a perfectly valid claim, that said airline should pay the considerable additional costs of having to use a company like Botts?
    Originally posted by JPears
    Possibly contraversial musings
    Originally posted by JPears
    ??

    You controversial JP - Never!


    Hmmm, happened a few years ago with my case! Im not the only one...

    Although times have changed now, and I personally wouldnt hesitate taking a difficult case to a NWNF Solicitor, but since Huzar and Allen then the generic (the plane has suffered a manufacturing defect) does appear to be less of a problem on here. Theres still work to achieve, bird strikes and knock on weather, so I dont think we can retire just yet.

    Its only since my recent predicament that Ive returned to continue the fight .. and just when I thought it was all over!
    Last edited by NoviceAngel; 26-03-2018 at 6:05 PM. Reason: Still apostrophe problems with the forum!!
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 26th Mar 18, 11:36 PM
    • 870 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    legal magpie
    There is provision in the CPRs which allows the Court to award costs, even in small claims cases, where the opposing party has behaved unreasonably. Simply fighting a case and losing isn't enough. By way of example the "hub" airline courts such as Liverpool and Luton are now giving a standard direction that the airlines must give details of any other claims arising out of the same flight. The idea is that the claims could be heard together.
    It could be argued that if an airline contested a claim arising out of a flight for which they had either lost the case to other passengers or had voluntarily paid out, this might be unreasonable conduct, justifying a costs order.
    • shapala
    • By shapala 27th Mar 18, 11:18 AM
    • 348 Posts
    • 14,541 Thanks
    shapala
    Hi guys.

    I don't think I've got a case but would like to ask for your assistance anyway.

    A few weeks ago I was due to fly with EJ from Edi to Munich. Sadly, due to the terrible weather here, I couldn't get to the airport. I couldn't even get a taxi or public transport as we were basically cut off due to the snow where we're located. Despite all EJ flights being cancelled the previous couple days, it was just my luck that the flight I was due to fly on did infact fly.

    Since I couldn't get to the airport, I booked a flight a few days later with a different airline and did manage to get to the airport and that flight went without a hitch.

    Do I have a case or not as I guess it's everyone's own responsibility to get to the airport and nothing to do with airline if you don't or can't turn up for whatever reason?
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 27th Mar 18, 11:41 AM
    • 2,034 Posts
    • 608 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    Hi guys.

    I don't think I've got a case but would like to ask for your assistance anyway.

    ...........

    Do I have a case or not as I guess it's everyone's own responsibility to get to the airport and nothing to do with airline if you don't or can't turn up for whatever reason?
    Originally posted by shapala
    This is a straightforward one to deal with, you do not have a case for flight delay compensation under EC261/2004. Your flight was not delayed or cancelled. As you say you did not turn up at the airport...

    BUT, you certainly should have a case for missed departure under your travel insurance. Please tell us you had that ?

    Cheers,

    NoviceAngel
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

    Hi, we’ve had to remove part of your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
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