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  • FIRST POST
    • kuepper
    • By kuepper 14th Jul 13, 9:24 PM
    • 697Posts
    • 112Thanks
    kuepper
    Anyone used EU Claim/Bott & Co?
    • #1
    • 14th Jul 13, 9:24 PM
    Anyone used EU Claim/Bott & Co? 14th Jul 13 at 9:24 PM
    these were highlighted in an article in the Guardian as someone to use to claim on your behalf in exchange for a 25 euro fee plus 27% of the compensation but when you're asked to sign up it's not that straightforward and could end up out of pocket whatever the outcome. here's their explanation:.

    1. What do I pay if I win?

    If you win your claim you pay us an administration fee of 25 euros and our charges. You pay our disbursements

    in any event and on our request and the payment of disbursements is not conditional on success and is not

    deferred to the end of the case. You may be able to claim from your opponent part or all of our charges and our

    disbursements.

    If you win overall but on the way lose an interim hearing you may be required to pay your opponents charges of

    that hearing. If on the way to winning or losing you are awarded any costs by agreement or Court Order then

    we are entitled to payment of those costs immediately.

    2. What do I pay if I lose?

    If you lose you pay your opponents charges and disbursements. You may be able to take out an insurance

    policy against this risk. If you lose you do not pay our charges but you may be required to pay our

    disbursements.

    Ending This Agreement

    3. If you end this Agreement before you win or lose you pay our charges and disbursements. We may end this

    Agreement before you win or lose.

    Charges

    4. These are for work done from the date specified in the Agreement until the end of the Agreement. This

    Agreement includes within its scope a retrospective claim for work done prior to when the Agreement is signed.

    These charges are subject to annual review.

    5. How we calculate our basic charges.

    These are calculated for each hour engaged on your claim. Routine letters and telephone calls will be charged

    as units of one tenth of an hour. Other letters and telephone calls will be charged on a time basis. The hourly

    rate which applies is £220 per hour plus VAT. We review the hourly rate on the 1

    st April of each year and we

    will notify you of any change in the rate in writing.

    Value Added Tax

    6. We add VAT at the rate (now 20%) that applies when the work is done to the total of the charges.

    Law Society Conditions

    7. The Law Society Conditions below are part of this Agreement. Any amendments or additions to them will apply

    to you. You should read the conditions carefully and ask us about anything you find unclear.

    Our Responsibilities

    8. We must:

    (i) Always act in your best interest subject to our duty to the Court;

    (ii) Explain to you the risk and benefits of taking legal action;

    (iii) Give you our best advice about whether to accept any offer of settlement;

    (iv) Give you the best information possible about the likely costs of your claim.

    Your Responsibilities

    9. You must:

    (i) Give us instructions that allow us to do our work properly;

    (ii) Not ask us to work in an improper or unreasonable way;

    (iii) Not deliberately mislead us;

    (iv) Co-operate with us.

    Dealing with Costs if You Win

    10. If you win you are liable to pay our charges and our disbursements.

    We will waive the right to enforce our claim for charges and disbursements against you to the extent that those

    charges and disbursements including VAT exceed the total sum of (i) and (ii) and (iii):

    (i) 27% of damages recovered;

    (ii) An administration fee of €25;

    (iii) Any sums recovered from the opponent by way of costs.

    You may be able to claim our charges and disbursements from your opponent.

    If we and your opponent cannot agree the amount, the Court will decide how much you can recover.

    You agree to pay into a designated account any cheque received by you or by use from your opponent and made

    payable to you. Out of the money you agree to let us take the balance of the charges, administration fee, disbursements

    and any VAT. You take the rest.

    We are allowed to keep any interest your opponent is ordered or agrees to pay on the costs.

    If your Opponent Fails to Pay

    11. If your opponent does not pay any damages or costs owed to you we have the right to take recovery action in

    your name to enforce a judgment order or agreement. The charges of this action become part of the charges

    under this agreement.

    Payment for Advocacy

    12. The costs of advocacy and other work by us or by any solicitor or agent on our behalf forms part of our basic

    charges. We shall discuss with you the identity of any barrister instructed in the arrangements made for

    payment.

    Barristers who have a Conditional Fee with Us

    13. You may be entitled to recover their fee from your opponent. We will discuss the barrister’s fee with you before

    we instruct him or her. If you lose you pay the barrister nothing.

    Barristers who do not have a Conditional Fee Agreement with Us

    14. If you win, then you may be entitled to recover all or part of their fee from your opponent. If you lose then you

    must pay their fee.

    What Happens when this Agreement Ends before your Claim for Damages End

    15. (a) Paying us if you end this agreement.

    You can end this agreement at any time. You then have the right to decide whether you must pay our

    basic or pay our charges and our disbursements including barrister’s fees immediately or pay them if

    you go on to win your claim.

    (b) Paying us if we end this agreement.

    We can end this agreement if you do not keep to your responsibilities. You then have the right to

    decide whether you must:



    Pay our charges and our disbursements when we as for them; or



    Pay our basic charges and our disbursements if you go on to win your claim.

    16. We can end this agreement if we believe you are unlikely to win. If this happens you will only have to pay our

    disbursements.

    17. We can end this agreement if you reject our opinion about making a settlement with our opponent and you must

    then pay our charges and our disbursements. If you ask us to get a second opinion from a solicitor or counsel

    outside our firm we will do so but you must pay the cost of that opinion.

    18. We can end this agreement if you become insolvent by reason of bankruptcy, entering into a voluntary

    arrangement or howsoever. You must then pay the basic charges and our disbursements.

    19. This agreement automatically ends if you die before your claim is concluded and we will be entitled to recover

    our charges up to the date of your death from your estate. If your personal representatives wish to continue

    your claim for damages we may offer then a new conditional fee agreement.

    What Happens after this Agreement Ends

    20. After this agreement ends we may apply to have our name removed from the record of any court proceedings in

    which we are acting unless you have another form of funding and have asked us to work for you. We will have

    the right to preserve our lien unless another solicitor working for you undertakes to pay us what we are owed if

    you win.

    Explanations of Words Used

    (a)


    Administration Fee - The sum of €25.

    (b)


    Advocacy - Appearing for you at Court hearings.

    (c)


    Charges - Our charges for the legal work we do as solicitors on your claim.

    (d)


    Claim - Your claim or the defence of any counterclaim brought against you whether or not court proceedings are

    offered.

    (e)


    Costs - Charges, administration fees, disbursements, and any applicable tax including VAT.

    (f)


    Counterclaim - A claim which your opponent makes against you in response to your claim.

    (g)


    Disbursements - Payments we make on your behalf including but not limited to court fees, expert fees, travelling

    expenses and barrister’s fees.

    (h)


    Interim Damages - Money that the court says your opponent must pay or your opponent agrees to pay or

    waiting for a settlement or a court’s final decision.

    (i)


    Interim Hearing - A court hearing that is not final.

    (j)


    Lien - Our right to keep all papers, documents, money or other property held on your behalf until all money due

    to us is paid. Lien may be applied after this agreement ends.

    (k)


    Lose - The court has dismissed your claim or you have stopped it on our advice.

    (l)


    Part 36 offers - An offer to settle your claim made in accordance with Part 36 of the Civil Procedural Rules.

    (m)


    Trial - The final contested hearing or the contested hearing of any issue to be tried separately and a reference to

    a claim concluding at trial includes a claim settled after the trial has commenced or a judgment.

    (n)


    Win - “Win” means that you recover damages or compensation or obtain other relief or succeed on any issue

    and/or on an order for costs is made in your favour or an agreement is reached to pay costs in your favour stage

    in your claim.

    (o)


    Finally - Finally means that your opponent is not allowed to appeal against the court decision or has not

    appealed in time or has lost any appeal.
    Last edited by kuepper; 14-07-2013 at 9:43 PM.
Page 21
    • baysieboy
    • By baysieboy 14th Sep 18, 2:51 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    baysieboy
    I am in a quandary as to whether to sign up with Botts re delayed flight. i did the online check and it told me I had a right to claim. Since then I have received an email saying their further checks confirm this. I read all their blurb re NWNF, no hidden charges but then was surprised to to see in their sign up papers statements saying that I could be liable for their disbursements, win or lose, also the the costs of the other party should I not win. The initial blurb, I feel, is very misleading. Now I have received an email saying they have contacted the airline already. So now I am worried that they have acted wrongly in not making everything crystal clear in the first place and trying to lock me in without my signing anything. I am not worried about paying them max 25% plus VAT but am concerned about agreeing to undefined disbursement’s, etc. My claim is a simple one, one of knock on weather delay which I feel is not likely to go to court. Unfortunately, whilst I phoned them yesterday, I have still to receive a call back from them and this doesn’t impress. Am I worrying too much? Has anyone else on the forum experienced their claiming disbursement’s cost etc? Am I locked into them if I decide not to sign?
    Last edited by baysieboy; 14-09-2018 at 2:55 PM. Reason: Grammar errors.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 14th Sep 18, 3:50 PM
    • 4,325 Posts
    • 1,183 Thanks
    JPears
    I think your concerns whilst perfectly valid are probably nothing to worry about.
    I haven't heard of Botts ever charging anyone for these items.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 15th Sep 18, 7:53 AM
    • 952 Posts
    • 411 Thanks
    legal magpie
    All "no win no fee" agreements with solicitors include a requirement that you are truthful and that you cooperate. If you lie about your claim or, for example, decide to cancel without good reason, you could well be liable to pay their costs to date. Examples are if, having signed up, you settle the claim directly with the company. In this case you are liable to pay their fees. Another common example is where the client signs up with more than one company without telling them. In that case you are liable to pay both. Or if you don't cooperate with them they can terminate the agreement and bill you for their time.
    Finally, there is always a risk that if you lose the case you are liable to pay the other side's costs and disbursements. This is very rare in small claims cases but in any event most NWNF solicitors either take out an insurance policy to cover them or say that they will stand them themselves.
    • baysieboy
    • By baysieboy 15th Sep 18, 8:38 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    baysieboy
    Thanks for the responses JPears and legal magpie.
    • rosie383
    • By rosie383 9th Oct 18, 1:41 PM
    • 4,707 Posts
    • 10,359 Thanks
    rosie383
    I'm going to lodge our claims today with Bott &Co after getting nowhere on my own.
    Everything I have read however, says that ATC restrictions make the claim invalid. Is there any risk in pursuing it as the airline is claiming ATC restrictions?

    We believe they are just hoping to put us off as it was obviously poor passenger management on the day. But I am concerned that I haven't come across anyone who has won a claim when the airline claims ATC problems.
    Father Ted: Now concentrate this time, Dougal. These
    (he points to some plastic cows on the table) are very small; those (pointing at some cows out of the window) are far away...
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 9th Oct 18, 1:56 PM
    • 2,150 Posts
    • 639 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    I'm going to lodge our claims today with Bott &Co after getting nowhere on my own.
    Everything I have read however, says that ATC restrictions make the claim invalid. Is there any risk in pursuing it as the airline is claiming ATC restrictions?

    We believe they are just hoping to put us off as it was obviously poor passenger management on the day. But I am concerned that I haven't come across anyone who has won a claim when the airline claims ATC problems.
    Originally posted by rosie383

    Hi Rosie,

    If there are genuine ATC restrictions then the likelihood is that the claim will NOT be successful but the airline will have to show to the Courts and of course Botts that they were genuinely ATC restrictions in place that affected your flight.

    There is absolutely no harm in handing it over to Botts, they will try their best to get compensation for you yourself and of corse them.


    Good luck

    NoviceAngel
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

    Hi, we’ve had to remove part of your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • rosie383
    • By rosie383 9th Oct 18, 5:57 PM
    • 4,707 Posts
    • 10,359 Thanks
    rosie383
    Hi NA.
    What would constitute ATC restrictions which would be out of their control?
    That's where I'm drawing a blank. I haven't been able to find any cases where this has been tested. Not for the type of delay that we experienced anyway, which was only an hour but resulted in us missing our connecting flight and ending up at least 5 hours late.
    Father Ted: Now concentrate this time, Dougal. These
    (he points to some plastic cows on the table) are very small; those (pointing at some cows out of the window) are far away...
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 9th Oct 18, 6:04 PM
    • 2,150 Posts
    • 639 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    Hi NA.
    What would constitute ATC restrictions which would be out of their control?
    That's where I'm drawing a blank.
    Originally posted by rosie383
    Quite a few, the obvious one is weather, another is a fire at the airport, any bomb threat or terror incident, strike action by air traffic, even congestion in the air all could lead to ATC restrictions.

    What I would do is post in the relevant airline thread in much more detail because I don’t like the sound of a one hour delay which then caused a missed connection- that sounds messy and you may well not be entitled to anything. Like I say post more in the relevant thread and we’ll help further.
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

    Hi, we’ve had to remove part of your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • rosie383
    • By rosie383 9th Oct 18, 7:09 PM
    • 4,707 Posts
    • 10,359 Thanks
    rosie383
    Hi. I was posting in the other EU airlines one but it's dried up. Just wanted to check I wasnt missing something before going to NWNF.

    When I initially looked at claiming on Bott&Co it was fairly clear that a delay on one flight which caused us to miss the connecting flight is something that is covered normally.
    Father Ted: Now concentrate this time, Dougal. These
    (he points to some plastic cows on the table) are very small; those (pointing at some cows out of the window) are far away...
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 9th Oct 18, 7:26 PM
    • 2,150 Posts
    • 639 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    Hi. I was posting in the other EU airlines one but it's dried up.
    Originally posted by rosie383
    It’s not a thread I usually follow but I’ll take a look see if I can help
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

    Hi, we’ve had to remove part of your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • rosie383
    • By rosie383 10th Oct 18, 8:28 AM
    • 4,707 Posts
    • 10,359 Thanks
    rosie383
    It's really clear on lots of sites that if the first leg of a journey that is delayed causes you to miss a connecting flight, then it is the time that you arrive at the final destination that counts.

    Both legs of the journey were with Vueling and the ticket was booked as a single booking with BA.

    When I originally went on Bott&Co's site and put in the details, they said that we were entitled to claim. Nothing to lose anyway.
    Father Ted: Now concentrate this time, Dougal. These
    (he points to some plastic cows on the table) are very small; those (pointing at some cows out of the window) are far away...
    • rosie383
    • By rosie383 11th Oct 18, 9:24 PM
    • 4,707 Posts
    • 10,359 Thanks
    rosie383
    We have now lodged our claims with Bott and they have confirmed that we should be entitled to €400 each. They gave agreed to take on the claim on our behalf.
    Father Ted: Now concentrate this time, Dougal. These
    (he points to some plastic cows on the table) are very small; those (pointing at some cows out of the window) are far away...
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 12th Oct 18, 6:32 AM
    • 1,478 Posts
    • 526 Thanks
    Justice13075
    roughly 70% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
    • rosie383
    • By rosie383 12th Oct 18, 9:06 AM
    • 4,707 Posts
    • 10,359 Thanks
    rosie383
    Exactly. How does 25%plus vat at 20% plus £25 per claimant work out at 30%?

    Is the VAT paid on the fee rather than the original amount? That's the bit I don't understand.
    Father Ted: Now concentrate this time, Dougal. These
    (he points to some plastic cows on the table) are very small; those (pointing at some cows out of the window) are far away...
    • JPears
    • By JPears 12th Oct 18, 10:31 AM
    • 4,325 Posts
    • 1,183 Thanks
    JPears
    The VAT will be on service element provided.
    So £220 compensation.

    £55 deduction plus VAT £11 -£66. +£25 =£91 total deduction. So, as you state, its not 30%, more like 40%. Assuming you have given the correct terms.

    Even with the highest compensation amount of EUR600 its still 34%

    £530. £132.5 + VAT £26.5 = £157. +£25 = £182.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 12th Oct 18, 10:32 AM
    • 1,478 Posts
    • 526 Thanks
    Justice13075
    Rosie383 you can now relax Bott have it in hand.
    • rosie383
    • By rosie383 12th Oct 18, 11:02 AM
    • 4,707 Posts
    • 10,359 Thanks
    rosie383
    Thank you for explaining that for me. Im really grateful to all here who have guided me in the right direction.
    Father Ted: Now concentrate this time, Dougal. These
    (he points to some plastic cows on the table) are very small; those (pointing at some cows out of the window) are far away...
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