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    • Thecolts11
    • By Thecolts11 22nd Aug 17, 8:50 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Thecolts11
    Hi all,


    Grateful for some advice please.

    I had booked a direct flight from Dublin to JFK to depart on Thursday 20th July 2017 departing at 10.50am.

    I got a text message from the airline at 06.30am on the morning of Thursday 20th July advising me that my flight had been cancelled and I would be accommodated on the next available flight etc.

    I got to the airport along with my wife and 2 children and were then transferred to another flight. We got a 11:10am flight to London, Heathrow (flight no. EI0162) then a connecting flight at 19:50pm to JFK (flight no. EI8883).

    On our original flight we were expected to arrive at JFK at 13:20pm, however we did not arrive until 10:35pm !!!8211; a delay of just over 9 hours.

    I think we should be entitled to !!!8364;600 compensation each so I put in a claim for myself, my wife and 2 children using the !!!8216;Resolver!!!8217; website. They said I can escalate my case 14 days after I submitted the letter. This deadline passed yesterday.

    Can you advise my next step... do I now escalate the case and issue them with a letter before action?

    Any help and advice is greatly appreciate.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 22nd Aug 17, 11:08 AM
    • 3,777 Posts
    • 1,046 Thanks
    JPears
    Hi, have you downloaded Vauban's most useful guide?
    Why was the flight cancelled?
    Which airline?
    But in answer to your question, probably yes. escalate as an NBA.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Thecolts11
    • By Thecolts11 22nd Aug 17, 11:31 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Thecolts11
    Hi, have you downloaded Vauban's most useful guide?
    Why was the flight cancelled?
    Which airline?
    But in answer to your question, probably yes. escalate as an NBA.
    Originally posted by JPears


    Yes I did read Vauban's guide, very useful.

    The flight was cancelled through a technical fault. There may have been an issue with the flight arriving in from JFK.

    Airline was Aer Lingus.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 22nd Aug 17, 12:42 PM
    • 3,777 Posts
    • 1,046 Thanks
    JPears
    Sometimes Resolver helps and gets a result, othertimes is just a waste and the airlines ignore it.
    Continue with Resolver if you like but I suspect AL will just play you along or ignore it.
    Then read Dr Watsons guide on Euro Small Claims Procedure, which is usually required for AL.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Thecolts11
    • By Thecolts11 22nd Aug 17, 1:41 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Thecolts11
    Sometimes Resolver helps and gets a result, othertimes is just a waste and the airlines ignore it.
    Continue with Resolver if you like but I suspect AL will just play you along or ignore it.
    Then read Dr Watsons guide on Euro Small Claims Procedure, which is usually required for AL.
    Originally posted by JPears

    Thanks.


    Yes AL does not have a great success rate for ones chasing compensation. I have escalated it via Resolver so will wait a response.
    • wigwam12
    • By wigwam12 25th Aug 17, 5:02 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    wigwam12
    Lufthasa ignoring "technical issues" not unforeseen circumstances
    Hi
    I had a flight delayed by 3 hrs 3min as per official logs due to the flight crew being "uncomfortable " with the hydraulics of the plane assigned (as per captain who came out to explain) and subsequent finding another aircraft.
    I wrote to the airline explaining all th circumstances, and pre-empting the "techinical problems is unforseeen circumstances " I cited the 2 cases where this was clarified that unless a manufacturing fault Technical problems don't count as unforeseen circumstances.
    I figured I would try the DIY route as it seemed fairly clear cut. Applied on behalf of myself and 4 other family members

    Here is the relevant part of my initial email:
    "The judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union in Tui & others v CAA confirmed the applicability of compensation for delay as set out in the Sturgeon case.
    As such, I am seeking compensation under EC Regulation 261/2004 for this delayed flight.

    My scheduled flight length was 2301km, therefore I am seeking €400 per delayed passenger in my party. The total compensation sought is €2000

    A 2014 ruling ratified by the Supreme Court, in the case of Huzar vs Jet2, reinforced by the subsequent 2015 ruling ratified by the European Court of Justice in the case of van der Lans v KLM say that European airlines can no longer claim technical faults as extraordinary circumstances, so must pay out compensation for flight delays of longer than three hours in such cases. "


    It just occured to me that they didn't offer refreshements etc either but that's now by the by I guess.

    Anyway - they replied bang on Day 14 saying....."technical problems.....unforeseen circumstances so the EU rules don't apply "
    They actually said:
    " According to our records, Lufthansa flight LH1286 was delayed due to unforeseen technical problem. For Lufthansa, the safety of passengers is our top priority. This is why we service our aircraft according to the manufacturer´s specifications on a regular basis. However, even with the highest maintenance programme, technical problems cannot be eliminated entirely.

    Since the delay of the flight was caused by circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all possible measures had been taken, we appreciate your understanding that we are unfortunately unable to fulfill your request for compensation and we are conforming to the stipulations of the European Union Regulation 261/2004 in this matter."


    My plan is to respond challenging that assertion and again citing the relevant 2 cases but having ready done this, any other tips to handle this before I have to go down the CAA/ small claims route?
    Thanks
    Last edited by wigwam12; 25-08-2017 at 5:06 PM.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 25th Aug 17, 5:07 PM
    • 4,729 Posts
    • 2,093 Thanks
    Vauban
    No - and to be honest the CAA are unlikely to be of much help either. By all means log it as an example of the airline's failure to respect UK law (and ask the CAA what they propose to do about it) but in reality you are likely to have to start court proceedings before the airline takes you seriously. Shameful that passengers still have to do this for such clear-cases like yours.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 25th Aug 17, 5:29 PM
    • 1,446 Posts
    • 658 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Lufthansa are signed up to an ADR provider called SÖP, their website is in German and English so shouldn't be a problem. I have no experience of their worth, but it does offer an alternative and it seems to be free to use.

    https://soep-online.de/100.html

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • wigwam12
    • By wigwam12 25th Aug 17, 5:36 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    wigwam12
    Thank you both. So I'm clear on your suggestions should I:
    1) bother corresponding with Lufthansa at all, reasserting that I disagree due to this law and if they don't comply I'll pursue court channels?
    2) simultaneously write to CAA ?
    3) do I await any response to above or escalate via SOP at this stage?
    Just didn't want yo have to juggle repeating myself via multiple channels but equally kern to do it all "by the book" so to speak.

    Thanks again
    Rizwan
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 25th Aug 17, 5:47 PM
    • 1,446 Posts
    • 658 Thanks
    Tyzap
    My suggestions.

    1) Contact Lufti and ask for a deadlock letter so that you can take your case to SÖP, due to their misunderstanding of the regulations. (plus tec problems are within the airlines control)

    2) Write to the CAA.

    3) Keep court (MCOL) as a fall back if 1 fails.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Tyzap; 25-08-2017 at 6:05 PM.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • wigwam12
    • By wigwam12 25th Aug 17, 6:19 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    wigwam12
    Many thanks.
    I've just read the CAA pages and they say too I need to ask for a "final response " as this should outline the relevant ADR.
    That Lufthansa didn't include this in the reply suggests that as Vaubansays, they at the messing me around stage still.
    Will press the point.
    I'll feedback.

    Oddly the CAA says it can help but when you read further says it will only help if there isn't an ADR
    • britishboy
    • By britishboy 25th Aug 17, 7:04 PM
    • 2,579 Posts
    • 303 Thanks
    britishboy
    I used Resolver to claim from Thomas Cook, 5 1/2 hour delay to Corfu in July, very impressed and was awarded £730 compensation for 2 x passengers in total. Never been delayed before, so wasnt expecting much, but overall massively impressed!
    Thank you MSE for suggesting Resolver
    • wigwam12
    • By wigwam12 28th Aug 17, 6:20 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    wigwam12
    Sorted
    With regard with the compensation, from Lufthansa’s point of view, we consider it possible to exonerate ourselves from liability. However, as a gesture of goodwill and on an exceptional basis, we will be pleased to pay you in full amounting EUR 400 equivalent to GBP 357 per passenger which will be credited into the bank account.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 28th Aug 17, 7:38 PM
    • 1,446 Posts
    • 658 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Sorted
    With regard with the compensation, from Lufthansa’s point of view, we consider it possible to exonerate ourselves from liability. However, as a gesture of goodwill and on an exceptional basis, we will be pleased to pay you in full amounting EUR 400 equivalent to GBP 357 per passenger which will be credited into the bank account.
    Originally posted by wigwam12
    Well done for persevering and getting the correct result

    A very unusual reply from Lufti, I've never known an airline to just voluntarily give up €400 if they were not liable!
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • wigwam12
    • By wigwam12 28th Aug 17, 8:44 PM
    • 38 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    wigwam12
    I suspect it was face-saving as the email I sent on Saturday ended:
    Please provide me with Lufthansa’s “Final Response” which in such a straightforward matter I would expect to confirm the method you propose to provide the total compensation sought of €2000 (€400 each in respect of the 5 family members travelling in my party).

    Alternatively, in respect of your misunderstanding of the regulations, I expect you to confirm that the matter is in deadlock and hence details of Alternative Dispute Resolution mechanism and the address for correspondence should I need to escalate to court proceedings.

    'We'd have beaten you, but as we're nice we will just pay up anyway'
    They responded 12 hours later at 2am (same person) but I didn't spit the email until today
    • Jeremee
    • By Jeremee 3rd Sep 17, 6:20 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jeremee
    Olympic Holidays - Crete ENT456
    Hi,
    I'm new to the MSE Forum and this is my first post of any time, so apologises if I am asking some dumb questions.
    Our flight (there were three of us), ENT456 on 29 August from Heraklion Crete to Gatwick was more than 6 hours late.
    I am unsure to whom I should make a claim. The flight was part of an Olympic Holidays package; I took out insurance via Olympic Holidays and the airline was the Polish company, enterair.
    I would be grateful for suggestions.
    Thank you very much
    • Alan Bowen
    • By Alan Bowen 3rd Sep 17, 6:33 PM
    • 3,057 Posts
    • 1,539 Thanks
    Alan Bowen
    The claim always has to be against the actual carrier, so Enter Air. There is a reason Olympic use them, they are cheap, and you have suffered as a result but there is no claim against the operator for flight delays.
    • Jeremee
    • By Jeremee 3rd Sep 17, 7:45 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jeremee
    Thank you Alan,
    I suspect claiming won't be easy.
    • DrA_Harrogate
    • By DrA_Harrogate 4th Sep 17, 9:34 AM
    • 257 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    DrA_Harrogate
    You are correct, it may not be easy. However, if you download Vauban's guide (google) it will be possible. It looks like you will be following the European procedure. Good luck!
    • Celticfox
    • By Celticfox 6th Sep 17, 12:36 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Celticfox
    Another Enter Air customer
    Hi, I too was on the Crete flight Aug 29th. I have not yet started pprocedings, still researching, therefore I would be interested to know how you get on.
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