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    • milzibkit
    • By milzibkit 31st Mar 18, 2:00 PM
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    milzibkit
    Expenses Query
    Hi, hoping someone can help.

    Our flight into Stansted last night was diverted to East Midlands Airport as Stansted was briefly closed. I'd like opinion/advice on receiving reimbursement for a taxi we took back to Stansted.

    Upon arrival into East Midlands, we were told buses would be laid on to get us back to Stansted. After much waiting around, we were eventually told there were going to be no buses and that Jet2 were putting everyone in taxis. We were also told that Jet 2 were using the same taxi booking agent as Ryanair (who also had planes diverted from Stansted to EMA) and that there was no indication of when or if we might be put in a taxi as there were hundreds of people waiting. We were travelling with a baby and after around 3.5 hours of no update we sourced our own taxi (using a firm Jet 2 didn't have a contract with) with the intention of going straight home, to pick up our car we'd left at Stansted the next day.

    En-route home we found out the terminal building at Stansted was open and we could indeed collect our car, so we re-routed to Stansted in the taxi. The distance to Stansted was slightly shorter than our original home destination.

    Two questions: 1. Do we have any hope of getting the taxi cost reimbursed? 2. Would we be best to say that we got the taxi to Stansted, or would this scupper any chance of a successful reimbursement as Jet 2 may suggest they were about to put us in a taxi at their cost? I don't believe there was any chance of us getting a taxi through Jet 2 as Ryanair seemed to have the monopoly over the taxi firm (their flights landed before ours).

    Jet 2's supervisor on the ground in EMA told us she didn't know when we'd get a taxi and agreed that us booking our own taxi was a more definite way of getting home and getting the baby fed/to sleep. As a side note, the families with babies were pulled out of the queue for taxis and told to wait in the building together so we could be prioritised. Unfortunately, a couple of buses did then turn up (which the Jet 2 ground staff didn't seem to be expecting) and they were filled with other passengers without young families and promptly left. This angered a lot of families with babies/young children and reinforced to me that the ground staff, despite doing their best, were overwhelmed and had no real control of what was happening.

    I'm not looking for any compensation - I'd just like to recover the cost of the taxi. Any advice would be appreciated.
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 31st Mar 18, 4:00 PM
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    NoviceAngel

    I'm not looking for any compensation - I'd just like to recover the cost of the taxi. Any advice would be appreciated.
    Originally posted by milzibkit
    You should write to them and enclose a copy of the taxi receipt. They SHOULD reimburse you.

    If they don't issue an NBA, instructions and a template letter in Vaubans Guide.

    I think what your asking for is exceptionally reasonable and I really can't see why they would haggle with you.

    Good luck

    NoviceAngel
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 8th Apr 18, 9:21 PM
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    NoviceAngel
    Not as though anybody is interested, cos nobody has asked but I thought I might as well bring you all up to date with my claims against J2.

    Just as a recap, flights LS316 CDG to LBA were cancelled on the 1st March, the 2nd March and again on the 4th March. All down to weather at LBA affecting the outgoing flights LS315.

    My claims consisted of three elements:-

    1..Refund of additional flight tickets because we were initially refused re-routing around £400.

    2..Right to care expenses totalling around £600.

    3..Flight delay compensation €1,500

    I don't wish start a discussion on the flight delay compensation element, it's all been said in the BA thread today!

    So what's been happening? Well I first wrote to J2 customer services with a standard letter (not a LBA/NBA) when I eventually returned from holiday asking for a refund of our right to care costs, and the cost of the additional flights.

    I'm pleased to say our right to care expenses were refunded in FULL £600.

    However, I was less than satisfied with refunds for the flights. When we initially booked around six months ago we paid around £50 each for the original flights. Jet2 said the ONLY option was a refund and no re-routing was available. I refused this refund because I was aware that right to care would end should I accept such a refund,that IMHO was a deceitful and wicked thing that they tried.

    I had no option but to purchase additional flights on the Jet2 website from my mobile at an inflated price of £70 each for the following day 2nd March even though I had been erroneously told that this flight was full.

    Subsequently this flight was also cancelled and once again we were refused re-routing and offered ONLY a refund of these flights. I once again purchased additional flights for the next flight which was on the 4th March at a vastly inflated price of £135 each a total of £270

    Again, this flight was also cancelled, however this time we were transferred free of charge (that was nice of them) onto the following days flight - finally returning on the 5th March.

    When Jet2 wrote what they have craftily done is say I'm entitled to a refund for the cancelled flights but not the re-routed one. So The original flights a total of £100 refunded, the second cancelled flight on the 2nd March also refunded £140. Total £240

    The third replacement flight that was also cancelled - well I'm not apparently entitled to a refund because this flight was re-routed and we subsequently flew back on our free of charge transfer of the 5th March.

    So total cost of replacement flights £140 + £270 Total £410 - Cheque received for the sum of £240

    This cheque was returned two weeks ago with an NBA.

    In the meantime, Botts were looking into any flight delay compensation that may be due under EC261/2004. I believe they have now commenced court proceedings on my behalf.

    I recently received a phone call from Jet2 wondering why they had received an NBA from me as well as one from Botts, I found myself having to explain to them the difference between right to care, re routing and any flight delay compensation that may be due under EC261, Botts only obviously dealing with the latter.

    So time is now up,, 14 days, do I issue or give them a few more days, well I bet Jet2 let them have Easter off ?

    I know this sounds stupid, but can anyone think of any grounds that they can use to defend their stance with regards to refunds of the flights ?

    If I were answering this post myself, I obviously can't think of any, but since it's a clear cut case to me, I'd say give them a few days to respond, they have acknowledged receipt of my NBA in writing, so I do believe that they will deal favourably with this aspect of my claim, or perhaps I'm still giving them too much credit?



    NoviceAngel
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    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 8th Apr 18, 10:07 PM
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    legal magpie
    I would not make two claims, one via Botts and one yourself as this can (and has) caused confusion. Jet2 have already accepted part of your claim and I suspect that you will get an improved offer. As you have instructed Botts for part of the claim it would be sensible to instruct them to include the other elements. You may also fall foul of the rule in Henderson which, in short, says that all claims arising out of the same incident must be dealt with at the same time.
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 8th Apr 18, 10:11 PM
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    NoviceAngel
    I would not make two claims, one via Botts and one yourself as this can (and has) caused confusion.....
    Originally posted by legal magpie
    Thank you legal magpie, yes Botts have told me that they will include any unpaid elements in their claim, so I'll seek advice from them before I issue any proceedings.
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    • JPears
    • By JPears 9th Apr 18, 9:45 AM
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    JPears
    And again, if Botts claim on your behalf in terms of the refunds element, they will take their percentage cut. You will lose out because Jet2 are being difficult/dishonest/stupid about a valid claim and you have been forced to resort to an alternative method for recovery, which you shouldn't have to do.
    When if, ever, are the CAA going to start getting the airlines in order?
    Did you ever get any response to your complaint to the CAA?
    Last edited by JPears; 09-04-2018 at 9:51 AM.
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    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • JPears
    • By JPears 9th Apr 18, 9:50 AM
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    JPears
    It seems fairly clear cut to me Novice. You paid £50 each for your flights. You ended up paying £510 in total as Jet2 refused (unlawfully) to reroute/rebook you. You are owed £510 less the cost of your original flight £100. £410, end of.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 9th Apr 18, 9:59 AM
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    NoviceAngel
    It seems fairly clear cut to me Novice. You paid £50 each for your flights. You ended up paying £510 in total as Jet2 refused (unlawfully) to reroute/rebook you. You are owed £510 less the cost of your original flight £100. £410, end of.
    Originally posted by JPears
    Well that’s exactly as I see it, I shouldn’t and didn’t want to use Botts as this all seemed very straightforward to me, but then again nothing is straightforward when it comes to Jet2.

    I did post a reply from CAA
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=74069052&postcount=3276

    Your Chocolate Fireguard comment springs to mind.

    I haven’t had a written response from J2 yet to my NBA so I’m hoping that aspect of the claim will be dealt with favourably.

    TBH, I’m shocked that they paid the right to care costs without argument at a substantial £600, now we’re left arguing over £170. It’s all a bit petty.
    Last edited by NoviceAngel; 09-04-2018 at 10:07 AM.
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    • JPears
    • By JPears 9th Apr 18, 10:07 AM
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    JPears
    Perhaps another letter outlining the general, unlawful lack of compliance by Jet2, irrespective of the actual route, given that it is a UK airline?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 9th Apr 18, 10:11 AM
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    NoviceAngel
    Perhaps another letter outlining the general, unlawful lack of compliance by Jet2, irrespective of the actual route, given that it is a UK airline?
    Originally posted by JPears
    I will post a redacted copy of my letter to them, my complaint was about lack of compliance by Jet2 and asking them to use their new enterprise act.
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

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    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 9th Apr 18, 10:26 AM
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    NoviceAngel
    Redacted copy of my letter, that's a big word for a Yorkshire lad. Vauban tought us it.


    Dear Mr Haines,

    I have read with interest the enclosed letter from Philip Meeson, Executive Chairman of Jet2.

    Unfortunately the grim reality of flying with Jet2.com, is somewhat different to that described.

    My partner and I were left stranded at CDG airport when Jet2 cancelled our flight back to the UK. After reading with interest your guidance on your website I believe we were due a ‘right to care’. This would involve transportation to a hotel and be provided with meals until Jet2.com could either re-route us or put us on the next available flight back to Leeds/Bradford.

    It is with regret, that Jet2.com offered us no assistance whatsoever only offering us a refund on the cancelled flight. I knew that to accept a refund would absolve us of further ‘right to care’. So I refused this refund. Later that day, we received a letter by email which does not accurately inform us of our rights under EC261/2004, please find enclosed for your information.

    Subsequently Jet2.com went on to cancel a total of three flights back to the UK that we were booked on, with still no offer of care for us. I have enclosed my letter to Jet2.com, which fully explains the circumstances surrounding our ordeal. I am now trying to obtain a refund of all our additional costs which under EC261/2004 I believe I am due.

    I do hope you will remind Jet2.com of the law, and use the enterprise act, to ensure they comply.

    I would value any comments you may wish to make on our situation.

    Yours sincerely,


    NoviceAngel
    by NoviceAngel
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    • JPears
    • By JPears 9th Apr 18, 10:39 AM
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    JPears
    Surely in Yorkshire, Vauban "le'rned it yer"
    I presume you meant taught....
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    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 9th Apr 18, 11:19 AM
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    NoviceAngel
    Surely in Yorkshire, Vauban "le'rned it yer"
    I presume you meant taught....
    Originally posted by JPears
    I don't live that close to the airport

    I posted this years ago but for anybody that hasn't seen it..
    https://youtu.be/6VLYpKGVBUg

    Getting back to my predicament, and to do the maths, If I had accepted J2s offer of £240 instead of £410. I'd be short of £170.

    If I need to ask Botts to add the replacement flights to the claim at £410 then 30% of that is £123. So even after Botts 30% subtracted it's still a win for me with an extra £47.

    I was all ready to prep the N1, but I'll have to take legal magpies advice.

    Snailmail normally arrives around 2pm so fingers crossed, I feel lucky today.


    EDIT - post just been early - just bills today - I'm taking JPs advice more chance of a lottery win than getting a cheque from Jet2..

    Further EDIT - Jet2 have gone quiet - sill no mail today 10/4 - I'll give them to the weekend and then contact Coby
    Last edited by NoviceAngel; 10-04-2018 at 5:01 PM. Reason: Update on today!!!8217;s mail
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    • JPears
    • By JPears 9th Apr 18, 12:04 PM
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    JPears
    Maybe a lottery ticket then?
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    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 14th Apr 18, 4:34 PM
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    NoviceAngel


    Such a shame it was needed, but the NBA finally worked, thanks to everyone that has helped me against Jet2 yet again.

    Now it’s just down to Botts to look at the knock on weather delay.


    Dear NoviceAngel

    Thank you for your further letter.

    I am pleased that you have accepted the return of the £600.

    Moving forward, I can confirm that, as you have correctly outlined, the original flight should have been re-routed at no additional cost to yourself.

    Please disregard the advice in the previous letter in relation to what the cheque signifies. Please also accept my apologies for any confusion that this has caused.

    Thank you for taking the time to contact us and I hope we can welcome you back to travel with us again soon.
    by Jet2
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    • PomBear
    • By PomBear 14th Apr 18, 5:09 PM
    • 54 Posts
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    PomBear


    Such a shame it was needed, but the NBA finally worked, thanks to everyone that has helped me against Jet2 yet again.

    Now it’s just down to Botts to look at the knock on weather delay.
    Originally posted by NoviceAngel
    Great that they finally paid out what you were rightfully owed, but quite diabolical they only did this when threatened with the small claims court.
    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 14th Apr 18, 6:52 PM
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    legal magpie
    What is needed is a legal requirement that they pay without being chased
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 19th Apr 18, 1:47 PM
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    NoviceAngel
    Just a further update on my case against Jet2 for compensation.

    Jet2 are raising ATC restrictions about my cancelled flights from CDG to LBA.

    I'm really struggling to get my head around this. There were no ATC restrictions at CDG and no problems with the weather. Even IF ATC restrictions were in place at LBA, that does not stop Jet2 from diverting to MAN or LPL ?

    I can see how ATC could prevent the outward flight LS315 from LBA to CDG and I would fully accept that would be a genuine EC but NOT on the return LS316.

    I believe that there's been a mixed view from the DJ's and mostly not a favourable one to claimants, I just can't see why though ?

    Anyone have any views either way ?

    Cheers

    NoviceAngel
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    • legal magpie
    • By legal magpie 20th Apr 18, 11:13 AM
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    legal magpie
    As I understand it ( and I hope that Coby or someone will correct me if I am wrong) there are two decisions by Circuit Judges by way of appeal against conflicting decisions of DJs.
    The cases are Horstink v BA and Blanche v Easyjet.
    I have read both judgments. In both cases the judges held that decisions by ATCs that cause delays are ECs. The operative word is "control" .Also the Judge in Horstink made it clear that the Court must not go into the reasons why the ATC made the decision that it did as whether or not it was justified, the decision is binding on the airline.
    Finally, I gather that the Court of Appeal gave permission to appeal in Blanche but I don't know what happened or is happening.
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 20th Apr 18, 4:53 PM
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    NoviceAngel
    As I understand it ( and I hope that Coby or someone will correct me if I am wrong) there are two decisions by Circuit Judges by way of appeal against conflicting decisions of DJs.
    The cases are Horstink v BA and Blanche v Easyjet.
    I have read both judgments. In both cases the judges held that decisions by ATCs that cause delays are ECs. The operative word is "control" .Also the Judge in Horstink made it clear that the Court must not go into the reasons why the ATC made the decision that it did as whether or not it was justified, the decision is binding on the airline.
    Finally, I gather that the Court of Appeal gave permission to appeal in Blanche but I don't know what happened or is happening.
    Originally posted by legal magpie
    Blimey, good job I left it to Botts! Lol

    As everyone knows I’m not in any way shape or form legal - I’m quite the opposite. I try to look at things from a common sense point of view that’s why I really value your input, because you raise questions and have input that I don’t.

    So let me try and understand this, IF ATC restrictions are in place at the destination airport then the airline in question have no ‘control’ over that decision ? ATC haven’t to be questioned on that and the airline can legitimately call that an EC.

    I can understand all that, IF my thick brain has understood any of that. But my question is why flights can’t be flown to alternative airports where passengers can be bussed to their original airport.

    I hope that makes sense to somebody?

    It’s the all reasonable steps thing again ! wallentin and arms and legs spring to mind !
    Last edited by NoviceAngel; Yesterday at 5:00 PM.
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