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    • rosco49
    • By rosco49 30th Oct 17, 11:46 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    rosco49
    Dear All,
    To anyone involved in a claim for flight delay / cancellation due to crew sickness. There is case law which has specifically ruled against this as being an allowable defence as an "extraordinary circumstance".
    You should quote Peskova and Peska v Travel Services which states " extraordinary circumstances refers to situations that are not intrinsically linked to the operating system of the aircraft, are not by there nature or origin inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are outside the airline's control.
    This is a three part test, thus all three parts need to be met for the event to be classed as an extraordinary circumstance. Crew sickness is an inherent part of the airline business, thus cannot qualify as an extraordinary circumstance.

    Also you can quote Smith & Collinson v British Airways ( Staines County Court 2015).

    If the airline refuses your claim you can apply to CEDR adjudication.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 30th Oct 17, 2:03 PM
    • 1,437 Posts
    • 656 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Dear All,
    To anyone involved in a claim for flight delay / cancellation due to crew sickness. There is case law which has specifically ruled against this as being an allowable defence as an "extraordinary circumstance".
    You should quote Peskova and Peska v Travel Services which states " extraordinary circumstances refers to situations that are not intrinsically linked to the operating system of the aircraft, are not by there nature or origin inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are outside the airline's control.
    This is a three part test, thus all three parts need to be met for the event to be classed as an extraordinary circumstance. Crew sickness is an inherent part of the airline business, thus cannot qualify as an extraordinary circumstance.

    Also you can quote Smith & Collinson v British Airways ( Staines County Court 2015).

    If the airline refuses your claim you can apply to CEDR adjudication.
    Originally posted by rosco49
    Hi rosco49,

    Thanks for that info.

    Have you come through a difficult claim with Flybe? If so, it would be very helpful if you could give an account of how it went and a time line for the process.

    Good luck and thanks in anticipation.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 31st Oct 17, 7:26 AM
    • 4,729 Posts
    • 2,093 Thanks
    Vauban
    I think the Smith and Collison judgement is very useful (and well reasoned by the judge). Of course it's not binding, but it's still persuasive and therefore v useful for any claimant whose flight was delayed by crew sickness.

    On the Peskova ECJ judgement, I was less convinced. It doesn't address crew sickness at all (unless I missed it) and the general principles it articulates re "extraordinary circumstances" are simply taken from earlier authoritative judgements.

    Dear All,
    To anyone involved in a claim for flight delay / cancellation due to crew sickness. There is case law which has specifically ruled against this as being an allowable defence as an "extraordinary circumstance".
    You should quote Peskova and Peska v Travel Services which states " extraordinary circumstances refers to situations that are not intrinsically linked to the operating system of the aircraft, are not by there nature or origin inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are outside the airline's control.
    This is a three part test, thus all three parts need to be met for the event to be classed as an extraordinary circumstance. Crew sickness is an inherent part of the airline business, thus cannot qualify as an extraordinary circumstance.

    Also you can quote Smith & Collinson v British Airways ( Staines County Court 2015).

    If the airline refuses your claim you can apply to CEDR adjudication.
    Originally posted by rosco49
    • eunan1985
    • By eunan1985 31st Oct 17, 12:55 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    eunan1985
    Not yet but i might do that

    I actually just initiated a claim on adiavtionADR so I will see how that progresses and take it from there

    can you recommend a good NWNF company/ site?
    • Rasc
    • By Rasc 10th Dec 17, 1:39 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Rasc
    Cancelled flight, went through Resolver and received this response:

    Thank you for contacting us regarding your flight BE7660 from Wick John O'Groats to Aberdeen on the 30th of October 2017. I am sorry to hear that you have experienced a cancellation on this occasion, and I can fully appreciate the frustration that this has caused.

    The flight from Wick John O'Groats to Aberdeen is operated by Flybe's Franchise partner, Eastern Airways. Therefore, I you must direct your correspondence to Eastern Airways so that they can respond to you directly.

    Eastern Airways Customer Support:
    Contact for Eastern Airways customer handling queries
    Phone: 01652 680 600
    Email: customersupport@easternairways.com

    Thank you for contacting Flybe, and we look forward to welcoming you onboard again in the future.

    Kind regards

    Emma Van Den Berg
    Customer Relations Advisor


    Is this correct? I was booked through FlyBe so surely I need to deal directly with them and not Eastern?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 10th Dec 17, 2:13 PM
    • 3,763 Posts
    • 1,044 Thanks
    JPears
    No, if the actual flight was operated by Eastern that's who you make the claim off.
    Looks like you'll need to start your claim process again.
    No need to bother with resolver, just download Vauiban's most excellent guide and send your own claim using the template letter within, to the email address they have supplied you with.
    Find out Eastern's UK address too as you may need to submit a legal claim.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Alan Bowen
    • By Alan Bowen 10th Dec 17, 6:38 PM
    • 3,055 Posts
    • 1,539 Thanks
    Alan Bowen
    Eastern Airways is based at Humberside Airport. It seems their relationship is falling apart at the seems due to the unreliability of the aircraft Eastern Airways used on the Scottish routes and Flybe has just announced it is pulling out of a lot of routes to Shetland operated at great expense on their behalf by Eastern
    • bheat2615
    • By bheat2615 19th Dec 17, 4:59 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    bheat2615
    I was recently delayed at an airport for over 3 hours then the flight was cancelled and I was re-routed onto a flight the next morning. The flight was supposed to leave just after 5pm and at 8:30pm-ish I was informed that I would be put on another flight at 6:45 the next morning. I was then informed that as I lived within the North East I would not be afforded travel or accommodation during the delay. I didn't ask for accommodation and I argued that the information on their desk clearly states they are required to provide suitable travel and accommodation for overnight delays with no mention of whether I lived in the area. They refused outright and told me to pay and claim back. So I had to pay over £40 for taxis from and back to the airport while the rest of the passengers were put in taxis to a nearby hotel with arrangements for a bus back and breakfast vouchers.


    Fast forward to almost a month later and they have acknowledged my claim of compensation but still claiming that because I wasn't "Away from home" they have no obligation to pay for my taxi fares. They have provided no evidence that they are exempt based on this and I can't find any either. As far as I'm concerned they were obliged to provide me with transport and have not met those obligations.


    Has anyone else had a similar issue or been provided travel without accommodation? Does anyone have any advice?
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 19th Dec 17, 7:03 PM
    • 1,437 Posts
    • 656 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi bheat2615,

    Thanks for re posting.

    The regs do say that if you incur a long delay, the airline owes you a duty of care. In other words, they should look after you until the flight departs, that is food, drinks and hotel if an overnight stay is required. The CAA would/should be interested in the way you have been treated.

    This is what the reg says...

    Right to care

    1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:

    A). meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
    B). hotel accommodation in cases
    !!!8212; where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or
    !!!8212; where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
    C). transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).

    You can claim your cost back from Flybe, but if they refuse you should ask them for a deadlock letter, and then ask Aviation ADR, the adr provider, to adjudicate on your claim. They should find in your favour.

    https://www.aviationadr.org.uk/how-to-complain-about/airline-complaints/

    For further info please read Vaubans guide, see my signature, below, for details.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Tyzap; 20-12-2017 at 10:37 AM.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • bheat2615
    • By bheat2615 19th Dec 17, 7:44 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    bheat2615
    Thank you very much Tyzap that's very helpful.

    I've replied to them asking them to define precisely what constitutes "Away from home" as set out by the EC Regulation 261/2004, and how this exempts them from the duty of care for passengers delayed overnight. I suspect they're just trying their luck and will hopefully relent as I haven't just accepted the compensation now that it's been offered. If they don't ill ask for a deadlock letter. Presumably I can't accept the compensation until the taxi fare is settled unless I'm willing to let it go, which I'm not. £40 is not small change to me.
    • Karolka
    • By Karolka 9th Jan 18, 3:31 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 2,901 Thanks
    Karolka
    Hello,
    Just wondered if you can give your opinion on my case.

    We were travelling to Amsterdam from London City for a short city break, with flights back booked for Monday 7am. The fight by Flybe (original time was Saturday 8:45am) was initially delayed, and 2.5h after the original time of travel it was announced cancelled. The reason given was that in Amsterdam there was a freezing fog and their planes couldn't travel in that sort of weather. The planes were smallish, not sure the type.
    We were told that the next available flight by flybe is two days later, which we obviously didn't take. We then booked evening flight from Luton and landed in Amsterdam after midnight. Do you think we are due any compensation? It is weather related, but other airlines were able to fly, we asked BA desk and they had flights available, although too expensive for us. Also we flew with Vueling later in the evening with the weather same if not worse.
    Many thanks for your input
    • Karolka
    • By Karolka 19th Jan 18, 4:17 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 2,901 Thanks
    Karolka
    I have now received a reply from Fly-be, and they said the flight was cancelled due to adverse weather so that was not "within control of the airline". I am still not convinced as other airlines were flying normally. Do I stand a chance or should i just give up now..
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 19th Jan 18, 4:46 PM
    • 11,275 Posts
    • 7,395 Thanks
    Caz3121
    different aircraft can cope with different weather conditions. Flybe have a number of turboprops. BA and KLM have different aircraft that have different tolerances
    • Corony
    • By Corony 1st Feb 18, 2:11 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Corony
    Flybe paid up fast
    Flight from Exeter to Edinburgh on 21st January delayed by nearly 5 hours. Claim submitted on 22nd, payment made 1st Feb. No fuss at all.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 1st Feb 18, 3:24 PM
    • 1,437 Posts
    • 656 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Flight from Exeter to Edinburgh on 21st January delayed by nearly 5 hours. Claim submitted on 22nd, payment made 1st Feb. No fuss at all.
    Originally posted by Corony
    Well done Corony,

    You're one of the lucky few.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • matt1987
    • By matt1987 2nd Mar 18, 9:27 PM
    • 869 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    matt1987
    Booked a couple of nights break from Birmingham to Edinburgh. Meant to be returning today on the 1720 flight from Edinburgh jowver after a few hours of waiting around in the airport, My Return flight home was cancelled due to severe weather at Birmingham (snow).

    Ticket desk say there is no space on flights tomorrow now so I’m on an early flight on Sunday! This means two nights in Edinburgh in a hotel. I understand that Flybe will cover reasonable costs? But what does this actually mean?

    Most of the hotels around here have either no rooms due to the amount of cancellations, and those that have rooms are charging a bloody fortune! Iv managed to haggle this evenings room down to £100 and tomorrow’s room Iv managed to get at another hotel at £63... both have no breakfast!

    Iv also had to pay for buses to get back from the airport to the City, and I’m going to have to fund an evening meal for tonight, and breakfast, lunch and dinner again tomorrow, plus drink!

    Any one have any clue on what’s “reasonable”? I assume they expect me to go armed with receipts from Macdonalds or something when I claim? Never been in this position before! Luckily I have my credit card!!
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 2nd Mar 18, 9:51 PM
    • 2,044 Posts
    • 615 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    Hi Matt,

    Welcome to the club, im also stranded in Paris, with exactly the same predicament, Im normally found in the Jet2 thread, please read through the last few posts in there - those from Tyzap

    But basically your entitled to transfers to and from the airport, meals and overnight accommodation courtesy of Flybe.

    Keep all receipts and document everything that is happening. As long as you are sensible eat well but not extravagantly then that covers reasonable costs. If the price of accommodation has gone sky high - thats not your worry - its the airlines.

    Strictly speaking you SHOULD NOT HAVE TO MAKE YOUR OWN ARRANGEMENTS!! The airline should be doing that for you.

    Like I say links to the CAA and lots of info in the Jet2 thread.

    Hope you get home soon.

    Cheers,

    NoviceAngel
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

    Hi, we’ve had to remove part of your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • matt1987
    • By matt1987 2nd Mar 18, 9:59 PM
    • 869 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    matt1987
    Hi Matt,

    Welcome to the club, im also stranded in Paris, with exactly the same predicament, Im normally found in the Jet2 thread, please read through the last few posts in there - those from Tyzap

    But basically your entitled to transfers to and from the airport, meals and overnight accommodation courtesy of Flybe.

    Keep all receipts and document everything that is happening. As long as you are sensible eat well but not extravagantly then that covers reasonable costs. If the price of accommodation has gone sky high - thats not your worry - its the airlines.

    Strictly speaking you SHOULD NOT HAVE TO MAKE YOUR OWN ARRANGEMENTS!! The airline should be doing that for you.

    Like I say links to the CAA and lots of info in the Jet2 thread.

    Hope you get home soon.

    Cheers,

    NoviceAngel
    Originally posted by NoviceAngel
    Thanks NoviceAngel, that’s re-assuring to know. I will give the Jet2 thread a read now! I could think of worse places to spend the next couple of days!
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 2nd Mar 18, 10:17 PM
    • 2,044 Posts
    • 615 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    No problem Matt, I can tell you now its bloomin cold at the top of the Eiffel Tower!
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

    Hi, we’ve had to remove part of your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • matt1987
    • By matt1987 2nd Mar 18, 10:30 PM
    • 869 Posts
    • 254 Thanks
    matt1987
    No problem Matt, I can tell you now its bloomin cold at the top of the Eiffel Tower!
    Originally posted by NoviceAngel
    It’s probably not much warmer here to be honest, although it’s very picturesque in the snow!
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