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    • Cranneyd
    • By Cranneyd 23rd Jul 18, 9:55 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Cranneyd
    Claim Rejected - Bird Strike
    I was turned down for flight delay compensation by TUI as they claim bird strike is deemed to be extraordinary circumstances based on recently published EU Commission guidelines.

    Anybody any thoughts on this.

    TIA
    • philng
    • By philng 23rd Jul 18, 11:52 AM
    • 643 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    philng
    These schemes are voluntary, the airlines choose to join them instead of staying in the CAA PACT scheme which has no powers to force airlines to abide by their views on a dispute. Any company in any industry that signs a subscription to an ADR/Ombudsman body like CEDR agrees to aide by the decisions made by the adjudicators. There are obviously issues on some aviation cases where the payments have not been made on time but that is an administrative failing in terms of processing payments not a refusal by the airline to comply. None of the airlines that subscribe to CEDR have ever refused to comply with one of our decisions. The delayed payment on some cases like DUKE!!!8217;s is disappointing and I am very sorry about that but we are working hard with the airlines to fix it.

    Could DUKE go to court instead, yes, but Court action is not quick, not free, time consuming and potentially stressful and if you don!!!8217;t have a lawyer to represent you (that you will have to pay for) you may find yourself up against an experienced solicitor if the company decides to contest the case. So on balance I would suggest that CEDR is the better option for most people. We have 40+ qualified lawyers (with experience of thousands of cases) reviewing every case on its merits and a team of dedicated staff working hard for customers to ensure they receive 100% of the compensation they are entitled to under the relevant laws.
    Originally posted by CEDR
    Well looks like I am in the same boat that DUKE was on. Deadline for payment instructed by CEDR 13th July 2018 now well passed. Contacted CEDR twice last week who advise airline is being chased up but still no contact or payment from TUI.

    So TUI have now had 38 days & counting from the original CEDR decision-If this was banking there would be a significant fine imposed on companies failing to adhere to complaints timescales.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 23rd Jul 18, 12:35 PM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 755 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Well looks like I am in the same boat that DUKE was on. Deadline for payment instructed by CEDR 13th July 2018 now well passed. Contacted CEDR twice last week who advise airline is being chased up but still no contact or payment from TUI.

    So TUI have now had 38 days & counting from the original CEDR decision-If this was banking there would be a significant fine imposed on companies failing to adhere to complaints timescales.
    Originally posted by philng
    The payment part of the CEDR scheme is it's achilles heel unfortunately. Keep reminding CEDR every week or so.

    From my experience they will pay up, eventually.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 23rd Jul 18, 1:53 PM
    • 4,412 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    JPears
    I was turned down for flight delay compensation by TUI as they claim bird strike is deemed to be extraordinary circumstances based on recently published EU Commission guidelines.

    Anybody any thoughts on this.

    TIA
    Originally posted by Cranneyd
    I'm not up to date on this one, but I'm sure someone will be along soon with information.
    Have you tried putting your details into an online checker, such as Botts to see if there is potential for a valid claim?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 23rd Jul 18, 2:18 PM
    • 1,523 Posts
    • 528 Thanks
    Justice13075
    Was the bird strike on your plane or on your incoming plane as JPears says put your details into bottonline and also euclaim and see what they say.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 23rd Jul 18, 3:31 PM
    • 1,757 Posts
    • 755 Thanks
    Tyzap
    I'm not up to date on this one, but I'm sure someone will be along soon with information.
    Have you tried putting your details into an online checker, such as Botts to see if there is potential for a valid claim?
    Originally posted by JPears
    This is quite a good article on bird strikes, and also on another issue which we often come across here.

    That being how the 3 hour delay period works when there is more than one reason for the delay i.e an EC and a none EC reason.

    I don't think the reasoning for the bird strike ruling is correct but, until it's overturned it still stands.

    https://www.claim4flights.com/flight-delay-compensation-extraordinary-ruling-bird-strikes/
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 23rd Jul 18, 4:39 PM
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    JPears
    I guess this is where the second hurdle of the regulation (as was hinted at in the last couple of paragraphs of said article) comes into effect.
    Presumably the claimants in this particular case got their compensation due to the airline not having done everything reasonable to minimise the delay?
    I am inclined to think the the bird strike ruling only relates to the immediate flight or does it incorporate knock on effects?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • NoviceAngel
    • By NoviceAngel 25th Jul 18, 8:15 AM
    • 2,150 Posts
    • 639 Thanks
    NoviceAngel
    .........
    I am inclined to think the the bird strike ruling only relates to the immediate flight or does it incorporate knock on effects?
    Originally posted by JPears
    The article does use plural (cancellations and delays) but I don't think the plural is used to indicate subsequent knock on delays.

    The Blanche case, I hope will at least try to help knock ons become clearer. However, I'm concerned that the water will still be murky..

    For example, if it is established that bad weather thunderstorms in the above case, then cause ATC restrictions on the outward leg (previous flight) can be regarded as a genuine EC, how far does that knock on affect further flights, just the previous flight or the rest of the days ? The specifics of the Blanche case just refer to the previous flight. So in my mind, if we get a ruling that goes against Blanche, what does that mean for the flight after Blanche and the one after that etc,etc. It would be easier to understand if Easyjet lose and 'the flight concerned' gathers favour once again. At least a line in the sand is drawn, to do any other just causes more and more confusion when it comes to knock on delays, however caused.

    Also are all genuine EC's to be given the same prominence, so ATC restrictions earlier in the day be regarded the same as a bird strike at the same time? I would argue that they should be given equal importance and that the crucial point is whether or not the delay is classed as a known EC.

    Hey, the never ending debate over EC261/2004 I cant see it ending any time soon.
    After reading PtL Vaubans Guide , please don't desert us, hang around and help others!

    Hi, we’ve had to remove part of your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • JPears
    • By JPears 25th Jul 18, 9:05 AM
    • 4,412 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    JPears
    I was turned down for flight delay compensation by TUI as they claim bird strike is deemed to be extraordinary circumstances based on recently published EU Commission guidelines.

    Anybody any thoughts on this.

    TIA
    Originally posted by Cranneyd
    However, despite what we have previously written, can we be sure that it was a birdstrike? I believe this will have to be recorded with the CAA or similar body?
    If Tui have been, ahem, "slack" with providing you accurate information, you may still have a claim.
    Remember, there are only a limited number of ECs that airlines can use. You can bet these ECs are given as a reason more often than actually is the case...
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • philng
    • By philng 26th Jul 18, 10:52 AM
    • 643 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    philng
    Well looks like I am in the same boat that DUKE was on. Deadline for payment instructed by CEDR 13th July 2018 now well passed. Contacted CEDR twice last week who advise airline is being chased up but still no contact or payment from TUI.

    So TUI have now had 38 days & counting from the original CEDR decision-If this was banking there would be a significant fine imposed on companies failing to adhere to complaints timescales.
    Originally posted by philng
    Well after a number of prompts to CEDR I have now received confirmation that TUI are paying the compensation due within 10 days.
    Process so far has taken from 12/3 to 26/7 but the persistence has paid off finally.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 26th Jul 18, 11:13 AM
    • 4,412 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    JPears
    I trust you are sending a letter of complaint to the CAA for the excessive delay and misinformation/obstruction to your perfectly valid claim by Tui?


    Clearly Tui don't dot the i's cross the Ts and put you in the middle as far as 261/2004 is concerned....
    Last edited by JPears; 26-07-2018 at 11:37 AM.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Shug61
    • By Shug61 26th Jul 18, 5:35 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Shug61
    Well after a number of prompts to CEDR I have now received confirmation that TUI are paying the compensation due within 10 days.
    Process so far has taken from 12/3 to 26/7 but the persistence has paid off finally.
    Originally posted by philng
    Just checked my account and the money has landed from Tui. Took 10 days after they had my bank details.

    Started process direct with Tui middle of March.. Contacted CEDR 21 April, payment landed (£1052) 23 July.

    Not that painful, just had to persevere and play the game. Does seem Tui just drag their heels at every opportunity from initial contact, through rejecting, raising different reasons for delay etc. But in my case CEDR did a good job.

    Guess many people give up at one of the various stages but just keep it civil, respond to every request with facts and hopefully it goes well in the end.

    Happy
    • JPears
    • By JPears 26th Jul 18, 7:36 PM
    • 4,412 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    JPears
    So 3 people in as many days who weren't fobbed off by an imorral airline flouting the law. But how many hundreds were? The tens of thousands of £s saved by lying to the people that provide their income. Disgusting.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • philng
    • By philng 27th Jul 18, 11:27 AM
    • 643 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    philng
    I trust you are sending a letter of complaint to the CAA for the excessive delay and misinformation/obstruction to your perfectly valid claim by Tui?


    Clearly Tui don't dot the i's cross the Ts and put you in the middle as far as 261/2004 is concerned....
    Originally posted by JPears
    There is absolutely no doubt that TUI 'try it on' and hope the majority don't follow through with their claim when it is clear they have little evidence to back them.

    Reluctant to complain to CAA until at least I have been credited with the cash.

    I guess people are made to feel relieved when they finally receive their claim cash so don't then take it any further.

    Must say I was very impressed with CEDR who kept me informed throughout the process which was although lengthy due to TUI, pretty straight forward to follow.
    • Shug61
    • By Shug61 30th Jul 18, 7:28 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Shug61
    Must say I was very impressed with CEDR who kept me informed throughout the process which was although lengthy due to TUI, pretty straight forward to follow.
    Originally posted by philng
    +1

    CEDR were professional and pretty swift to respond at each stage.

    As mentioned earlier does seem Tui hope to wear you down by delaying responses/ inventing new excuses etc. In the hope you just give up.
    I guess it works for them as only a small percentage follow the compliant through to conclusion.
    Wonder if there are any stats under freedom of information act that show how many people get fobbed off by Tui at an early stage?
    Must be millions they are saving...
    • JPears
    • By JPears 30th Jul 18, 8:57 AM
    • 4,412 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    JPears
    That will be one of my questions to CAA.
    They must have some sort of reporting auditing system in place as they have effectively washed their hands of a legal responsibility.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Gunia
    • By Gunia 31st Jul 18, 10:54 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Gunia
    I was wondering if anyone might have been in a similar situation. I have been trying to claim from Thomson for over a year now through Bott. Thomson did not engage; they didn't respond to court proceedings and they didn't show up in court, so the court automatically ordered that they pay compensation. Thomson have not responded to the court order either. From what I've read, Thomson seem to be trying to do everything not to pay out but it seems a bit unusual not to engage with any step of the process. Would anyone know how likely it is that the order will be enforced?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 31st Jul 18, 11:36 AM
    • 4,412 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    JPears
    How much was your total claim?
    When was the court order issued?
    Have you been in touch with Botts since?


    Next step would usually be Baliffs or Sheriffs (better but only possible over a certain amount) for recovery of monies due.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Gunia
    • By Gunia 31st Jul 18, 5:34 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Gunia
    The total claim was for €1,200. Bott are quite vague on the detail, they just said that they have started enforcement proceedings but not sure what is involved or the likelihood of success. I find it strange that Thomson put no defence whatsoever, especially since the case was not clear cut (two issues contributed to the delay: technical difficulty with aircraft and runway closure).
    • cletus1
    • By cletus1 1st Aug 18, 11:57 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    cletus1
    Just a short foot note to our claim for the flight delay TUI finally paid up thay must love wasting money as they incurred solicitors costs for the claim
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