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    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 28th Jul 18, 9:49 PM
    • 1,521 Posts
    • 528 Thanks
    Justice13075
    They owe you compensation send a notice before action give them 14 days and if they don't pay sue them.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 28th Jul 18, 11:30 PM
    • 4,411 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    JPears
    It was liverpool county court in 2015 that the case went though. As much as its a court, being only a county court it doesnt hold much weight unfortunatly. That doesnt change how the regulation is written tho.
    Originally posted by Ross39
    Exactly. The regulation concerns a fee paid. It has nothing to do with a seat.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Kafi17
    • By Kafi17 30th Jul 18, 6:25 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Kafi17
    Manchester to Paphos 28 April
    Hi all, my first posting on MSE!
    Hoping to get some assistance please. Our flight from Manchester to Paphos on 28 April was delayed by over 5hours. The first issue was a fault with the smoke detector leading to a delay of over two hours. No vouchers / food or drink given.
    After that was fixed, as the flight was about to leave there was a medical emergency and we had to go back to the terminal. There it was announced the crew could no longer take us as they would exceed their allotted hours. Clearly cutting it very fine after the initial fault and leaving no room for error!
    TC rejected my delay claim due to ‘exceptional circumstances’ medical emergency. They have also rejected my claim that we weren’t given food etc which was entirely down to the initial fault with the plane.
    It doesn’t seem that they have taken all elements into account for the delay. They’ve just relied on the medical issue. Had there not been an initial fault with the plane or the crew not having sufficient hours, the medical emergency would not have caused a 3hr delay on its own.
    Has anyone had any luck with their claim on this flight? Is it worth a claim to CEDR? I see that CEDR charge if you are unsuccessful
    Thank you all in advance for any advice.
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 30th Jul 18, 6:39 PM
    • 11,597 Posts
    • 7,572 Thanks
    Caz3121
    They have also rejected my claim that we weren’t given food etc which was entirely down to the initial fault with the plane.
    Originally posted by Kafi17
    Duty of Care is a right irrespective of the reason for the delay. If vouchers were not issued and you purchased food/drinks during the delay - send them the receipts for reimbursement under EU261 Duty of Care (if you didn't buy anything then there is nothing to be reimbursed)
    EUclaim thinks you have a €400 claim, put your flight into Bottonline and see what it says then look for Vaubans Guide (google)
    • searsp
    • By searsp 7th Aug 18, 8:16 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    searsp
    Am hoping I could get some guidance from you. We travelled on MT125 from Antalya to London Gatwick in the early hours of 18 July. It was due to take off at 02:05 and arrive at 04:35. In reality, it took off at c. 05:30 and arrived c. 07:50 so the overall delay was over 3 hours.

    I've asked Thomas Cook for compensation using their online form but this has been rejected due to the cause of the delay being a "Disruptive Passenger". However we are aware from a conversation with one of the flight crew that the initial reason for the delay was scheduled maintenance that was carried out late. Subsequently, there was an issue with a passenger on the flight (possibly with an acute fear of flying) which I won't go into on here.

    Arguably the second issue was caused by the first but I'm unsure as to what to do next. Do I go back to Thomas Cook and challenge the reason given - after all it's not wholly correct. Do I appeal to CEDR, the adjudicator for Thomas Cook? Do I pass it over to a decent firm such as Bott & Co and accept that I'll need to give up some of the compensation due to get the right outcome? Or, am I being unreasonable in trying to pursue this now and should I just let things go. Any thoughts and guidance gratefully received. Many Thanks
    • PomBear
    • By PomBear 7th Aug 18, 8:52 AM
    • 155 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    PomBear
    Am hoping I could get some guidance from you. We travelled on MT125 from Antalya to London Gatwick in the early hours of 18 July. It was due to take off at 02:05 and arrive at 04:35. In reality, it took off at c. 05:30 and arrived c. 07:50 so the overall delay was over 3 hours.

    I've asked Thomas Cook for compensation using their online form but this has been rejected due to the cause of the delay being a "Disruptive Passenger". However we are aware from a conversation with one of the flight crew that the initial reason for the delay was scheduled maintenance that was carried out late. Subsequently, there was an issue with a passenger on the flight (possibly with an acute fear of flying) which I won't go into on here.

    Arguably the second issue was caused by the first but I'm unsure as to what to do next. Do I go back to Thomas Cook and challenge the reason given - after all it's not wholly correct. Do I appeal to CEDR, the adjudicator for Thomas Cook? Do I pass it over to a decent firm such as Bott & Co and accept that I'll need to give up some of the compensation due to get the right outcome? Or, am I being unreasonable in trying to pursue this now and should I just let things go. Any thoughts and guidance gratefully received. Many Thanks
    Originally posted by searsp
    According to FlightRadar24 your flight departed at 05.59 local time, (scheduled 02.05) and arrived at 08.00 BST (scheduled 04.35). I can’t see the aircraft divert, so I can’t see how a disruptive passenger delayed the flight. Furthermore, the preceding flight that the aircraft operated departed LGW 4.5 hours late and didn’t arrive at AYT until 04.39! That supports what you know about there being a technical issue. Your delay was obviously a knock-on. You have a fairly robust argument so I would escalate to CEDR. Then, if you get no joy, issue an NBA. After that you can make the decision whether to instruct a firm such as Bott’s or to DIY it.

    By the way, the aircraft you flew on operated one more flight after yours (same day) to Mallorca but hasn’t flown since, which is very odd.
    • searsp
    • By searsp 7th Aug 18, 9:23 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    searsp
    According to FlightRadar24 your flight departed at 05.59 local time, (scheduled 02.05) and arrived at 08.00 BST (scheduled 04.35). I can!!!8217;t see the aircraft divert, so I can!!!8217;t see how a disruptive passenger delayed the flight. Furthermore, the preceding flight that the aircraft operated departed LGW 4.5 hours late and didn!!!8217;t arrive at AYT until 04.39! That supports what you know about there being a technical issue. Your delay was obviously a knock-on. You have a fairly robust argument so I would escalate to CEDR. Then, if you get no joy, issue an NBA. After that you can make the decision whether to instruct a firm such as Bott!!!8217;s or to DIY it.

    By the way, the aircraft you flew on operated one more flight after yours (same day) to Mallorca but hasn!!!8217;t flown since, which is very odd.
    Originally posted by PomBear
    Thanks Pombear. The passenger itself we think was someone who had an acute fear of flying and decided to leave the plane shortly before take-off - shortly followed by his OH and with their children left on the plane! It's an unusual one, hence my question as to whether we were being unreasonable in pursuing the claim.

    Very interesting re. your point re. the aircraft we flew on having only operated one more flight after yours. The fact it's not flown since does seem to support the fact that there was more of an issue with the plane than Thomas Cook are admitting to - perhaps I should mention this in my follow-up email to them?

    Thanks again - your response was exactly the motivation I need to take this forward.
    Last edited by searsp; 07-08-2018 at 9:41 AM.
    • PomBear
    • By PomBear 7th Aug 18, 10:06 AM
    • 155 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    PomBear
    I think the main problem with your flight was whatever happened to the outbound segment - LGW to AYT. This was due to return you. That, in itself, landed at 04.39 (scheduled 01.05), or 3.5 hours late. Your flight took off 1 hour 20 minutes later. That’s a slightly delayed turn-around, but I actually think the passenger with the fear of flying is irrelevant. I suspect your delay (had that not happened) would have been more than three hours anyway. The cause is the technical fault on the preceding flight. I think that is what you need to argue to CEDR. I would’t bother getting into letter ping pong with Thomas Cook.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 7th Aug 18, 11:11 AM
    • 4,411 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    JPears
    And I wouldn't mention the passenger issue. Hammer home the fact the the whole cause of the delay was the technical issue on the previous leg.
    The plane not operating could be numerous factors. It maybe in for a routine service. If it's a smaller plane like an old 737 it may be laid off during busy summer with a larger aircraft. It may not be in the airline fleet anymore/lease expired? Pombear, which aircraft was it?
    TC have had engine issues with at least one of their aircraft for a number of years, not sure if they still use that aircraft?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • searsp
    • By searsp 7th Aug 18, 12:34 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    searsp
    And I wouldn't mention the passenger issue. Hammer home the fact the the whole cause of the delay was the technical issue on the previous leg.
    The plane not operating could be numerous factors. It maybe in for a routine service. If it's a smaller plane like an old 737 it may be laid off during busy summer with a larger aircraft. It may not be in the airline fleet anymore/lease expired? Pombear, which aircraft was it?
    TC have had engine issues with at least one of their aircraft for a number of years, not sure if they still use that aircraft?
    Originally posted by JPears
    Thanks JPears. Just to clarify, the passenger issue was actually on the previous leg as opposed to the flight I was actually on. So we don't really know what element of the delay on the flight from LGW to Antalya was attributable to the technical issue and/or whatever took place with the "disruptive passenger"
    • PomBear
    • By PomBear 7th Aug 18, 2:49 PM
    • 155 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    PomBear
    Sorry - my mistake. The aircraft has flown since. Poor WiFi connection so the more recent flights weren’t loading.

    That said, I fail to see how a disruptive passenger caused such a long delay, even if on the preceding leg. You aircraft landed at LGW, pretty much as scheduled at 06.41 (6 mins behind schedule) on 17 July. It flew no other flights until the one preceding yours. Scheduled to depart LGW at 18.50, actual departure was at 23.17 - 4.5 hours late. I don’t buy that a disruptive passenger caused that. Obviously this knocked on to your flight considerably.
    • searsp
    • By searsp 7th Aug 18, 3:33 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    searsp
    Thanks again. I'm going to take your advice and resist the urge to put this all into another email to Thomas Cook. Let's see how I get on with the CEDR - all the info you have both provided has been invaluable.

    Edit: I have just read on the CEDR website that I can't actually make an application with them unless Thomas Cook have sent me a written final response that refers me to CEDR, or at least eight weeks have passed since you first complained to the airline/airport. Neither of these are the case - maybe I need to to respond to Thomas Cook's email, asking them to re-consider my complaint and issue with me with a final response?
    Last edited by searsp; 07-08-2018 at 3:56 PM.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 7th Aug 18, 5:13 PM
    • 4,411 Posts
    • 1,203 Thanks
    JPears
    Make that reply an NBA give them 14 days. If no reply then that's deadlock.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • searsp
    • By searsp 7th Aug 18, 5:56 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    searsp
    Make that reply an NBA give them 14 days. If no reply then that's deadlock.
    Originally posted by JPears
    Thanks JPears, I will run out of questions pretty soon...
    So what you're saying is to respond to TC but just use the suggested NBA text in Vauban's guide. As opposed to providing the additional info re. the flight (that you and Pombear have helped provide today) to encourage them to settle now?

    And if I give them 14 days, and get no response I can call "deadlock" - what happens then? I'm assuming the next step is to still go via CEDR to try and achieve a resolution?

    And if that still doesn't work out, I've lodged my NBA and could then either go down the route of NWNF or DIY via small claims?

    Appreciate all your help.
    • TICTACTUCK
    • By TICTACTUCK 8th Aug 18, 7:08 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    TICTACTUCK
    Two cancelled flights in one trip compensation.
    Hi first time poster so apologies if this may have been asked before. (Bare with me here it's a long a complicated story)
    My girlfriend and I were due to fly out of Gatwick on a 21:45 flight to Dalaman, however when we came to check in we were told that there was a problem with the original plane so the plane being used to replace it was too small so we did not have a seat on that plane, along with 67 others.
    We were given a letter to say that we would receive compensation for this flight cancellation and were then told that they were going to bus us through the night and put us all in a hotel in Manchester for a flight out at 9:00 the next morning so we would all have to be ready to be picked up at 6:00. Upon arrival to our hotel at 3:30 we were then told that this re-arranged flight was no longer available and we would now be flying at 17:20 (we didn't actually fly until gone 18:00) My question is we're being compensated for the first flight cancellation but I'm just wondering how it works and weather we're entitled to compensation for the second cancelled flight, which was scheduled and we had a flight number and everything.
    I'm not trying to be a money grabber but considering we arrived 24 hours later than planned, having not properly slept for 2 nights, our private transfer from Dalaman didn't arrive because of the delay and when we did eventually see some staff from Thomas Cook at Dalaman they were utterly useless, I'm more than a little annoyed with the way the whole thing has been handled and don't think they should be allowed to treat customers this was
    Any advice would be gratefully received.
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 8th Aug 18, 8:35 AM
    • 1,755 Posts
    • 755 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi TICTACTUCK,

    You may be able to claim 2x compensation. Its not clear from the regs under exactly what conditions this would apply tho.

    The airline may try to argue that it was the same delayed flight but I believe that would be a weak argument. Your first claim is for Involuntary Denied Boarding (IDB) and is incontestable.

    You should put in a separate claim for the 2nd delay and see what the airline says. I believe we could construct a strong case, but if it is contested it would need to go to MCOL where a judge could give the arguments due consideration.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • TICTACTUCK
    • By TICTACTUCK 8th Aug 18, 9:47 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    TICTACTUCK
    Thanks Tyzap I know we're definitely getting compensation for the first cancelled flight and the second flight was cancelled because they could not raise a crew.
    I'm still on holiday at the moment so when I get back I shall be submitting the claims for compensation it's worth a try for the second flight, I know that the other passengers were going to try and claim. Can see this being a long drawn out process!
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 8th Aug 18, 10:12 AM
    • 1,755 Posts
    • 755 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Thanks Tyzap I know we're definitely getting compensation for the first cancelled flight and the second flight was cancelled because they could not raise a crew.
    I'm still on holiday at the moment so when I get back I shall be submitting the claims for compensation it's worth a try for the second flight, I know that the other passengers were going to try and claim. Can see this being a long drawn out process!
    Originally posted by TICTACTUCK
    Don't be fooled by their assertion about receiving compensation for the first delay, they often change their mind when it comes to paying out hard cash. You can take nothing for granted in the flight delay game.

    By putting some obstacles in the way many passengers will drop their claims and the airline will save £££.

    In all honesty it should be a straightforward 1st claim and probably a protracted fight for the 2nd, but you have nothing to lose by trying.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • des king
    • By des king 10th Aug 18, 4:05 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    des king
    find out actual delay time
    my partner and i booked a holiday with thomas cook we flew on 3rd of june 2018 the flight was delayed took off 3 hours 17 minutes late they flew faster to try and get under 3 hours,airportia an independent flight tracking company logged them at 3 hours 2 minutes late,and i dont beleive this includes the nearly 15 minutes took to open doors,i have asked thomas cook for compensation under eu law but they say was less than 3 hours how do i get a finite time they were late from departure to doors open?is there a list at arriving airport? thomas cook have told me to pursue my claim through cedr but on looking at reviews seems heavily biased towards airlines
    ty in advance for any help
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 10th Aug 18, 4:23 PM
    • 3,620 Posts
    • 2,287 Thanks
    jpsartre
    Route? Flight number? If you want doors opening time you'll probably have to go through CEDR or take some sort of legal action (e.g. money claim online).
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