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    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 7th Jan 13, 5:36 PM
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    zeupater
    Solar ... In the news
    • #1
    • 7th Jan 13, 5:36 PM
    Solar ... In the news 7th Jan 13 at 5:36 PM
    Hi All

    Thought it was about time we had a thread specifically to discuss relevant press articles relating to solar pv & thermal ..... so here goes ...

    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 07-01-2013 at 5:48 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
Page 116
    • pinnks
    • By pinnks 20th Jul 18, 8:17 PM
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    pinnks
    So, for those on reasonable FiTs, would you accept a renegotiation of your sacrosanct FiT contract to move to net metering? Would you give up generation FiT as well as export, or argue for retention of generation plus net metering?

    Not sure any govt would go to the expense of all that renegotiation but it seems a reasonable position for them to take if they offer net metering...

    Time to hide under the table now and pretend I didn't light the blue touch paper...
    Wiltshire - 5.25kWp
    3.5kWp: 14 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 4000TL, WSW 40 degrees, June 2013
    1.75kWp: 7 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 1600TL, SSE 45 degrees, March 2014
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 21st Jul 18, 8:45 AM
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    Martyn1981
    So, for those on reasonable FiTs, would you accept a renegotiation of your sacrosanct FiT contract to move to net metering? Would you give up generation FiT as well as export, or argue for retention of generation plus net metering?

    Not sure any govt would go to the expense of all that renegotiation but it seems a reasonable position for them to take if they offer net metering...

    Time to hide under the table now and pretend I didn't light the blue touch paper...
    Originally posted by pinnks
    I think it's too late for net metering, the subsidy would be higher than the current scheme at about 6.25p/kWh (all in) since all units generated are valued at import, so around 12p-20p/kWh.

    As I've mentioned before, the more extreme nuclear advocates* on other forums discussing the end of FiT pointed to new nuclear (HPC) only needing 5p-6p/kWh in subsidy, somehow not realising that demand side PV FiT is now 4p/kWh (export isn't a subsidy, in the same way that the rest of the 10p/kWh for HPC isn't).

    Sadly the government claims that the country can't afford to subsidise demand side PV at 4p/KWh for clean leccy today (for 20yrs), whilst simultaneously planning to subsidise new nuclear at 6p/kWh in 10yrs time (for 35yrs).

    The hypocrisy of the government is staggering as regards this issue and the LCF (levy control framework (subsidy pot)). Even if we rolled out 1GWp of demand side PV per year, and the subsidy took 10yrs to reach zero, the effective amount of subsidy would still be tiny in comparison after taking the relative capacity factor of PV into account:

    1GWp x 10yrs x cf of 11% = 1.1GW of 24/7 generation.

    subsidy at 2p/kWh (4p reducing to zero) for 20yrs = £3.9bn

    HPC, 3.2GW x cf of 91% = 2.9GW of 24/7 generation.

    subsidy at 6p/kWh for 35yrs = £53bn

    So HPC gives us approx 3x the amount of generation (after a 10yr delay), for 13x the subsidy cost, and the monies go to foreign governments rather than back into the hands of UK domestic households and small businesses, raising a genuine balance of payments issue.

    [Edit - I should have been more clear, PV on the demand side with or without FiTs does of course require some sort of payment for export, and it's hard to think of any argument why an export payment shouldn't be made. M.]

    *I have to separate the extreme nukers, as many folk, myself included appreciate that nuclear is cleaner than coal, and low carbon, so it had a place (perhaps in the 80's for new deployments). However, with coal going anyway, and RE deployments now so fast and cheap, nuclear has lost its 'cleaner' and 'cheaper' arguments, and for most reasonable nuclear supporters is now being priced out of consideration on economic grounds.

    Not that there is anything wrong with being ideologically opposed to nuclear, nor being willing to pay a premium for nuclear avoidance, since there are many long term concerns regarding nuclear.
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 21-07-2018 at 3:18 PM. Reason: Added an edit
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 21st Jul 18, 10:23 PM
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    silverwhistle
    I have to suspect that this government's MPs have either been bought by fossil fuel and nuclear companies or are just stupid.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Well in my life I've always been keener on the c*ck-up rather than conspiracy theories. I'm still going for stupid, even on this one, as there is a considerable degree of stupidity in government at present, more so than usual.

    Perhaps it's a cunning plan by one of the ministerial Baldricks to encourage us to get battery provision? No, I didn't think so either.

    To add to Martyn's last post, the other advantage of domestic PV is the large base of educated consumers, who have been instrumental in helping peak loads to reduce by demand shiftting and generally being in the forefront of getting efficient lighting and appliances.

    I could write to my MP, I suppose, but he's a gurning, enthusiastically sycophantic new boy. A prize to the first one who guesses his identity.
    Last edited by silverwhistle; 21-07-2018 at 10:24 PM. Reason: Firefox formatting
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 21st Jul 18, 10:29 PM
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    silverwhistle
    So, for those on reasonable FiTs, would you accept a renegotiation of your sacrosanct FiT contract to move to net metering?

    Time to hide under the table now and pretend I didn't light the blue touch paper...
    Originally posted by pinnks

    Hmm, I might need some help with spreadsheets.. Bearing in mind I have a HW diverter and would like to get an EV it all gets very complicated, but wetting my finger I think the answer would be no!:-)
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 22nd Jul 18, 7:56 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Well in my life I've always been keener on the c*ck-up rather than conspiracy theories. I'm still going for stupid, even on this one, as there is a considerable degree of stupidity in government at present, more so than usual.
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    I've also taken that approach in the past, and was reluctant to accept a conspiracy approach from the government at first, but my concerns have grown when you see the package of moves they've made:

    1. They dropped the FiT from about 12p/kWh to 4.5p, when 7p probably would have kept the industry alive, which in turn would have kept the cost of PV and associated kit down, and would have allowed for a steady drop to 4p. But the sudden drop hurt the industry too much.

    2. I'm suspicious that damage to the industry was intentional since even if it had kept going they also threw in a 100MWp per quarter cap on FiT, so effectively they would only subsidy support 400MWp per annum of domestic and small business PV. With such a low cf for PV, that equates to approx 44MW of 24/7 generation pa.

    3. The government claimed that the UK simply couldn't afford more subsidies despite the 'volume' of new FiTs being so small when cf and the reduced subsidy rate are taken into account.

    4. 1, 2 and 3 seem strange given that at the same time they approved the 3,200MW HPC scheme, and are now considering Wylfa also at a much higher subsidy level, despite a planned direct £5bn investment by the government. [£5bn at £2k per install, would 'buy' 2.5m domestic PV installs that could then be subsidy free, assuming a fair export rate is paid, whereas Wylfa will get approx £30bn more in subsidies.]

    5. At the same time PV and on-shore wind were excluded from further CfD auctions, the ROC's scheme was ended, planning for on-shore wind was made almost impossible, and shale gas planning rules were relaxed.

    6. Public support for PV and wind remains incredibly high, whilst support for nuclear and shale is low and falling.

    All in all, support for smaller scale popular 'free fuel' generation has been cut, whilst support for unpopular large scale generation requiring fuel purchases has been increased.

    I truly want to believe in c**k-up, as I don't want to become a raving internet conspiracy theorist, but nothing here seems to add up nor make sense. i would say I'm currently transitioning towards conspiracy, but am still in the 'baffled' no-mans land in between.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 22nd Jul 18, 8:30 AM
    • 2,932 Posts
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    NigeWick
    I truly want to believe in c**k-up, as I don't want to become a raving internet conspiracy theorist, but nothing here seems to add up nor make sense.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    I'm going to poach your points and write to my MP. He's a conswervative who says onshore wind isn't any good.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 22nd Jul 18, 11:18 AM
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    silverwhistle
    On what basis? The view of his grouse moor?
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 22nd Jul 18, 1:06 PM
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    Martyn1981
    I'm going to poach your points and write to my MP. He's a conswervative who says onshore wind isn't any good.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Please do. But first if you haven't already, can I suggest you study the figures in the public Attitudes Survey. Just let them all wash over you, and let your brain absorb some of the info.

    I like using these as they are the government's own survey results (fight fire with fire), and 25 surveys over 6yrs is pretty solid info.

    Crucially I often harp on about the change in numbers for on-shore wind. Off-shore wind and PV have remained very, very high and solid, but on-shore is a little lower, but for me, the killer fact is that over the 6yrs on-shore wind support has risen from 66% to 76%, and opposition has fallen from 12% to 8%, and all during the period when the impact (financial & visual) has been felt.

    This suggests to me that less and less people have an issue now that they can see the WT's, and even those concerned enough to oppose them have now realised, or at least 1/3 of them have, that they ain't so bad after all.

    With probable CfD costs of about £50/MWh they would be close to subsidy free now, assuming a wholesale leccy rate in the £50/MWh region, as expected by the NAO in the 2020's.

    The latest survey is here, though number 26 must be due soon.

    Energy and Climate Change Public Attitudes Tracker: Wave 25

    Select -

    Energy and Climate Change Public Attitudes Tracker (PAT): Wave 25 - summary tables

    and chose the renewables tab on the bottom of the page. You can also look at the nuclear and shale tabs for an indication of how public opinion is shifting.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 23rd Jul 18, 10:04 AM
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    NigeWick
    On what basis? The view of his grouse moor?
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    I suspect it's more to do with his belief that fossil and nuclear generation are "best for the country." That said, he's not a minister now so perhaps he won't have to toe the party line quite so closely.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 23rd Jul 18, 10:07 AM
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    NigeWick
    Please do. But first if you haven't already,
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Too late e-mail went not long after I left the forum. When I get the reply researched by his minions, I'll revisit this subject.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 23rd Jul 18, 11:25 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Too late e-mail went not long after I left the forum. When I get the reply researched by his minions, I'll revisit this subject.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Cool, and you can hit his response for six, as it'll almost certainly state that a mix of technologies is needed. At that stage you (we) can hit him with the recent studies/articles showing that 1. 100% RE is now doable and based on current technologies and economics, and 2. the report showing that a hybrid generation of RE and nuclear will be more expensive for the UK than all RE (or all nuclear) but RE costs are falling below nuclear costs, plus RE is already at 30%, whilst nuclear is heading for zero when the current fleet (20%) ends in the next decade or two, and the HPC 7% could be stopped (maybe) and won't be around for 10yrs.

    Just saying .......
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 23rd Jul 18, 9:24 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 2,971 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    I suspect it's more to do with his belief that fossil and nuclear generation are "best for the country." That said, he's not a minister now so perhaps he won't have to toe the party line quite so closely.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Maybe the toddler approach is best: "best for the country".. "WHY". Mind you, the zeitgeist is for parroting phrases at the moment: "Strong and Stable", "Take back control", which even for sound bites are pretty vacuous.



    The country don't seem to be very happy about a new opencast mine in Durham.. He definitely needs to be apprised of public sentiment about wind and nuclear.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 24th Jul 18, 10:20 AM
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    NigeWick
    Mind you, the zeitgeist is for parroting phrases at the moment: "Strong and Stable", "Take back control", which even for sound bites are pretty vacuous.
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    At least I've got a strong and stable marriage , as long as I do as I'm told. Can't take back control because of the last point...
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 28th Jul 18, 7:52 AM
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    Martyn1981
    PV + storage for off-grid Kenyans. Could be the start of a massive energy disruption.

    SunExchange And Powerhive Partner To Bring Solar Power To 175,000 Kenyans
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 29th Jul 18, 7:44 AM
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    NigeWick
    PV + storage for off-grid Kenyans. Could be the start of a massive energy disruption.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    I've put some cash into http://www.azuri-technologies.com/ They put in small scale solar, battery. lights & phone charger for less than people pay for their kerosene lamps. They install and the customer pays monthly until the end of contract when they own the kit. They're starting to do TV's too.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 5th Aug 18, 6:55 PM
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    Martyn1981
    E.On throws weight behind UK solar as policy cliff edge looms

    Major utility E.On has urged the UK government to encourage homeowners to take up solar PV and batteries in the midst of growing policy uncertainty.

    The company, which last year announced a major domestic solar-plus-storage drive in the UK, has made the call a week after the government announced plans to scrap the export tariff as part of a much wider review of policy support.

    Much of the industry is currently considering its response prior to two consultation deadlines in late August and early September, but E.On has come out swinging in solar’s corner.

    Sara Vaughan, E.On’s political and regulatory affairs director, said there is “so much more left to do across the country” if it is to meet the government’s Clean Growth Strategy ambitions and highlighted solar as an “efficient way” for homes and businesses to contribute.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Aug 18, 6:28 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Great idea, a bit late, but a great idea, and backed by WPD.

    REA calls for three phase connections for all new homes to unlock solar deployment

    All new housing developments should be fitted with three-phase electricity supply instead of the current practice of ‘lowest cost’ single phase supply to allow greater deployment of residential solar, according to a new report out today.

    The Renewable Energy Association (REA), joined by distribution network operator (DNO) Western Power Distribution (WPD), has made the case that upgrading the electricity supply to homes is well overdue, with the current single phase model the norm since before World War II.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Dave Fowler
    • By Dave Fowler 9th Aug 18, 7:47 PM
    • 487 Posts
    • 853 Thanks
    Dave Fowler
    Great idea, a bit late, but a great idea, and backed by WPD.

    REA calls for three phase connections for all new homes to unlock solar deployment
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    I'm not sure how much this will help when most houses are limited to around 4kWp due to the physical size of the roof. And modern houses are getting smaller and smaller.

    Dave F
    Solar PV System 1: 2.96kWp South+8 degrees. Roof 38 degrees. 'Normal' system
    Solar PV System 2: 3.00kWp South-4 degrees. Roof 28 degrees. SolarEdge system
    EV car
    Location: Bedfordshire
    • gefnew
    • By gefnew 9th Aug 18, 8:29 PM
    • 126 Posts
    • 135 Thanks
    gefnew
    Hi All
    organic solar panels.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45132427
    regards
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 10th Aug 18, 7:15 AM
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    Martyn1981
    I'm not sure how much this will help when most houses are limited to around 4kWp due to the physical size of the roof. And modern houses are getting smaller and smaller.

    Dave F
    Originally posted by Dave Fowler
    Tis true Dave, but panel efficiencies are increasing, perhaps double in the next decade from perovskite/silicon panels, so that could mean 6-8kWp on the roof.

    Study: 32% tandem cell solar still competitive at triple the price

    Just brainstorming here, but as PV gets cheaper, there's also wall mounted, ground mounted, conservatory roof solar glass, or PV pergola's for garden shade.

    Also coming at it from a supply side (rather than export), maybe some sort of faster EV charging potential in the future ..... not really sure about that bit as I assume we are already good for 20-25kW(?).

    Oh, and one other bit, I think any batteries than can discharge at a rate greater than 3.68kW (PW II is 5kW & 7kW briefly) also need DNO approval.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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