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    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 6th May 18, 11:17 AM
    • 1,487 Posts
    • 1,153 Thanks
    bxboards
    I've added a couple of extra platforms.

    I invested in Lending Works (thanks to a referal here), but so far the money is sat in a queue uninvested for over a week now.

    Also tried Growth Street, seems similar to Ratesetter rolling, but around 1.5% higher. Money there was invested within 1 day or money arriving - I find bank transfer into them are slower than I'd expect though. A BT sent at about 12:30pm didn't arrive with them until about 7am next day, but had been invested by 7pm.

    Regarding MT Prestbury - bearing in mind that LTV of 65%, only 90% was recovered which means losses for anyone who wasn't in at the start, as the interest so far won't cover the 90%. That indicts issues with valuations as I wrote a few posts back, many of the valuations appear to me to be written to favour the borrower to allow him to borrow at 70% LTV, rather than the actual open market 'worth'.

    If there is a ever a P2P mis-selling scandal or similar, I'd bet money on it revolving around phoney LTVs...
    • firestone
    • By firestone 6th May 18, 11:21 AM
    • 264 Posts
    • 117 Thanks
    firestone
    many like Lending works are trying to work through ISA money in April but at least with them any reinvested money goes to the front of the queue
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 6th May 18, 11:24 AM
    • 1,487 Posts
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    bxboards
    One other extremely shady aspect of the whole situation is the individual who infiltrated one of the other forums and made a series of posts designed to build confidence in COL, then after the FCA got involved made some false claims in order to rally lenders against the appointment of BDO.

    I note that this individual's account is not banned at the time I write this and he has been active on said forum today. In contrast, others have been banned for speaking out against him.
    Originally posted by masonic
    I'm pretty sure there are 3 or 4 fairly obvious platform shills over there.


    I tend to distrust members who seem to be on first name terms with platform employees - referring to the first administrator by her christian name seemed over-familiar.. There are always a few 'tells'... the lobbying seemed bizarre.
    • agent69
    • By agent69 6th May 18, 9:07 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    agent69
    Regarding MT Prestbury - bearing in mind that LTV of 65%, only 90% was recovered
    Originally posted by bxboards
    The initial distribution from the administrator was 89% with a further 5 - 7% due on completion. They are also looking at recovering money taken out of the company inappropriately shortly before the sticky brown stuff hit the fan.
    • shoi
    • By shoi 7th May 18, 10:09 AM
    • 134 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    shoi
    ...

    you'd expect about the same by just shoving your money in a cautiously managed corporate bond fund, such as https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-global-credit-bond-fund-investor-gbp-hedged-accumulation-shares and that has much lower risk and better regulatory protection.
    Originally posted by grey gym sock
    But is actually losing money, thanks for the tip (not)
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 7th May 18, 10:22 AM
    • 1,487 Posts
    • 1,153 Thanks
    bxboards
    But is actually losing money, thanks for the tip (not)
    Originally posted by shoi
    Agreed, hardly an investment paying 3.1% with another 0.35% in fees. So effectively 2.75%.

    Inflation is 3%+ last time I looked - not quite as bad a flushing tenners down the loo, but still losing money in real terms.

    Still P2P isn't for everyone, and this should be fairly safe.
    • grey gym sock
    • By grey gym sock 7th May 18, 4:33 PM
    • 4,444 Posts
    • 3,992 Thanks
    grey gym sock
    But is actually losing money, thanks for the tip (not)
    Originally posted by shoi
    very recent performance (down c. 3% from peak value) is not a good way to predict the future. it does demonstrate that the fund can go down as well as up.

    compared to p2p, it has vastly less default risk (it is 90%+ in investment grade bonds, and very well diversified; p2p is always junk, and not always well diversified), but more term risk (temporary losses in asset value, due to being locked into fixed interest rates when rates rise; the fund's money is locked in for an average of 6.4 years; p2p is typically much shorter-term).

    the latter risk happens to have showed up (in a small way) over the last few months: (some) bond prices have fallen a bit, and their yields risen.

    unlike p2p, you can always get your money out of this fund right away if you want to. but that may be for a small loss. if you leave it in for a years, it will make you money. you don't have to worry about large parts (or all) of your capital disappearing, which you do with p2p (whether that is due to a cluster of defaults, or platform fraud or maladministration).

    if you know what to expect from it, the fund is a good, boring, holding, which won't keep you awake at night.

    Agreed, hardly an investment paying 3.1% with another 0.35% in fees. So effectively 2.75%.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    that's exactly how i'd start estimating the likely return from this fund. but then i'd want to add something for likely gains from rolling short-term bonds into longer-term bonds. as time passes, the bonds the fund holds all gradually become shorter term, and it will gradually be selling some of its shortest-term bonds (which have lower YTM) and replacing them with longer-term bonds (which have higher YTM). which boosts returns (assuming a positive yield curve - which is the usual situation, including now). i don't know how to quantify this, but as a vague stab, perhaps we're back to about 3%.

    Inflation is 3%+ last time I looked - not quite as bad a flushing tenners down the loo, but still losing money in real terms.
    looking backwards over 12 months, somewhere between 2.3% (CPIH) and 3.3% (RPI). so IMHO the fund is currently looking likely at least to match inflation.
    • coldjim
    • By coldjim 10th May 18, 1:27 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    coldjim
    Ratesettler are giving 100 if I put in 1000.... https://www.ratesetter.com

    What do people reckon? seems like a good idea to me? Just wanted to check.
    • fun4everyone
    • By fun4everyone 10th May 18, 1:29 PM
    • 1,016 Posts
    • 1,552 Thanks
    fun4everyone
    It's a good offer
  • jamesd
    very recent performance (down c. 3% from peak value) is not a good way to predict the future
    Originally posted by grey gym sock
    It's down 2.67% for 2018 so far and about 2% since it started in late 2017. But that's to be expected because...

    more term risk (temporary losses in asset value, due to being locked into fixed interest rates when rates rise; the fund's money is locked in for an average of 6.4 years; p2p is typically much shorter-term).
    Originally posted by grey gym sock
    it's poorly invested for an environment of rising interest rates, so further capital price losses can be expected. Since this is an accumulation fund the interest payments might mask that.

    if you know what to expect from it, the fund is a good, boring, holding, which won't keep you awake at night.
    Originally posted by grey gym sock
    It doesn't look like a good investment choice at the moment. If a bond fund is desired, something with lower average term looks like a better idea.


    if you leave it in for a years, it will make you money. you don't have to worry about large parts (or all) of your capital disappearing
    Originally posted by grey gym sock
    Of course you have to worry about capital loss and with this fund it looks more likely than not that capital will be lost by those who invest now. Minimal chance of losing all of the capital but if the broker where you hold the fund fails you can be locked in for the duration of the administration and be compelled to take large capital losses from the administration costs, if you hold more than 50,000 of total investments at the broker.
    • coldjim
    • By coldjim 10th May 18, 3:33 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    coldjim
    It's a good offer
    Originally posted by fun4everyone
    U reckon this is the best offer to go with at the moment if i am investing 1000? How is rate settler?
    • keyboardworrier
    • By keyboardworrier 10th May 18, 3:39 PM
    • 97 Posts
    • 103 Thanks
    keyboardworrier
    Ratesetter is a good platform for the most part, but the rates in the monthly market are low and they are stopping people from choosing their own rate soon. No one has ever lost a penny and liquidity is very good (But this is subject to the state of the platform/economy going forward!). They stepped in to stop investors losing money a while ago but they said they will not be doing it again, so we have to hope they learnt a few lessons.
    • fun4everyone
    • By fun4everyone 10th May 18, 3:52 PM
    • 1,016 Posts
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    fun4everyone
    U reckon this is the best offer to go with at the moment if i am investing 1000? How is rate settler?
    Originally posted by coldjim
    It's a good offer although it's not necessarily the best

    For example Kuflink are doing an offer at the moment. You have to be referred by someone to get it. If you are referred and invest 500 for a year you get 100 cash and the person who sent you there gets 100 cash as well. My understanding (I've not completed it yet so dont hold me to this) is that the 100 bonuses are immediately withdrawable as cash when you get them, 2 weeks after the investment. There are people on the referal boards here at MSE offering 75 of their 100 if you use their codes so you might want to check that out. I am due my 100 in a few days along with a 75 backhander so will be reporting back then on the relevant threads.

    There are other offers for similar things. Orbis are a stocks and shares platform who do a 100 for 100 (invested for a year) regularly - that's only for ISA's most of the time but occasionally its for unwrapped investments also. Other p2p's such as growth street make offers as well.

    The ratesetter one is good. I did it myself and no hassles got the 100 without chasing. Ended up about a 14% return on 1000 for a year. It's maybe not the best around but it's up there. Once I got it I just withdrew everything and now use them as a 10 a month direct debit for current accounts . I don't think they offer great returns without the bonus.
    • coldjim
    • By coldjim 10th May 18, 4:27 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    coldjim
    It's a good offer although it's not necessarily the best

    For example Kuflink are doing an offer at the moment. You have to be referred by someone to get it. If you are referred and invest 500 for a year you get 100 cash and the person who sent you there gets 100 cash as well. My understanding (I've not completed it yet so dont hold me to this) is that the 100 bonuses are immediately withdrawable as cash when you get them, 2 weeks after the investment. There are people on the referal boards here at MSE offering 75 of their 100 if you use their codes so you might want to check that out. I am due my 100 in a few days along with a 75 backhander so will be reporting back then on the relevant threads.

    There are other offers for similar things. Orbis are a stocks and shares platform who do a 100 for 100 (invested for a year) regularly - that's only for ISA's most of the time but occasionally its for unwrapped investments also. Other p2p's such as growth street make offers as well.

    The ratesetter one is good. I did it myself and no hassles got the 100 without chasing. Ended up about a 14% return on 1000 for a year. It's maybe not the best around but it's up there. Once I got it I just withdrew everything and now use them as a 10 a month direct debit for current accounts . I don't think they offer great returns without the bonus.
    Originally posted by fun4everyone
    Thanks for your help with this. So i could open a ratesettler and kuflink if i have 1500 to invest and use both options? I will look on the referrals now. I may do both. I already have a cash isa and a s&s's ISA... so i can't contribute to any more this year. Doing both these Peer to Peer services won't affect this, will they? Thanks.
    • fun4everyone
    • By fun4everyone 10th May 18, 4:31 PM
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    fun4everyone
    I already have a cash isa and a s&s's ISA... so i can't contribute to any more this year. Doing both these Peer to Peer services won't affect this, will they? Thanks.
    Originally posted by coldjim
    You can do both of those offers outside an ISA so no effect there.
    • MallyGirl
    • By MallyGirl 10th May 18, 4:32 PM
    • 2,879 Posts
    • 7,884 Thanks
    MallyGirl
    as long as you don't choose the ISA options then both are fine to invest in (not advice, just a reference to the ISA query).
    • coldjim
    • By coldjim 10th May 18, 5:24 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    coldjim
    Thanks for all the helps guys. Just one more question, since i have never used a P2P service before. Does it just auto invest all your money for you, or do you pick and choose funds? Coz i would have no clue what to invest in. Any advice?
    • fun4everyone
    • By fun4everyone 10th May 18, 5:29 PM
    • 1,016 Posts
    • 1,552 Thanks
    fun4everyone
    Thanks for all the helps guys. Just one more question, since i have never used a P2P service before. Does it just auto invest all your money for you, or do you pick and choose funds? Coz i would have no clue what to invest in. Any advice?
    Originally posted by coldjim
    It depends on the platform, some you pick and choose, some auto invest, some you can do either.

    Ratesetter you pick how long you want the money tied up for (rolling, 1yr, 5yr) and the rates you can get varies depending on that then they do the investing for you - it is made to look and feel quite like a savings account.

    Kuflink it seems you can pick and choose or auto invest, up to you.

    Other (higher rate) platforms like funding secure you have to pick and choose trust me you don't want to be heading there unless you fancy fighting for the scraps available on the few good loans they have
    • grey gym sock
    • By grey gym sock 10th May 18, 10:42 PM
    • 4,444 Posts
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    grey gym sock
    it's poorly invested for an environment of rising interest rates, so further capital price losses can be expected. Since this is an accumulation fund the interest payments might mask that.

    It doesn't look like a good investment choice at the moment. If a bond fund is desired, something with lower average term looks like a better idea.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    i disagree.

    attempting to predict the direction of interest rates is best avoided, IMHO. nobody really knows. (and although this is an actively managed fund, it may well be that vanguard choose not to take a very active view on the direction of interest rates.)

    it is not enough to predict that rates will rise and to be right about that. because that's already in the price: interest rates are expected to rise. you have to predict that rates will rise more than "the market" expects, and be right about that.

    because an anticipated rate rise (or rises) can be "in the price", it is not true that bonds will necessarily fall when rates are rising. roughly speaking, bonds will fall if interest rates rise further and faster than is expected. but they will rise if rates rise less far and slower than expected. so bonds can rise when rates are rising.

    many people have been predicting more rapidly rising interest rates and falling bond prices for about a decade. and have been wrong for most of that time. sticking to shorter-term bonds has reduced returns.

    not sticking to shorter-term bonds is taking a risk (term risk). but on average you are paid something for taking on that risk. there is no reason to avoid this risk completely. you could have too much of it (e.g. all of your portfolio in 30-year gilts). it's best to have a portfolio which is diversified across different kinds of risk. some term risk, mixed with other kinds of risk, can be a good idea.

    Of course you have to worry about capital loss and with this fund it looks more likely than not that capital will be lost by those who invest now.
    any losses due to rising interest rates are only temporary, providing your holding period is longer than the duration of the bond fund. because the bonds still pay the interest and principle they promised to pay.

    Minimal chance of losing all of the capital but if the broker where you hold the fund fails you can be locked in for the duration of the administration and be compelled to take large capital losses from the administration costs, if you hold more than 50,000 of total investments at the broker.
    general risks of platform failure (a slight change of topic ) are a lot higher for p2p than for mainstream platforms. this is not just about whether the FSCS applies. also because p2p platforms are generally much smaller and newer; IMHO, few if any p2p platforms could be considered as unlikely to "mislay" assets as the biggest mainstream platforms.
    Last edited by grey gym sock; 10-05-2018 at 10:46 PM.
    • firestone
    • By firestone 11th May 18, 12:03 AM
    • 264 Posts
    • 117 Thanks
    firestone
    Thanks for all the helps guys. Just one more question, since i have never used a P2P service before. Does it just auto invest all your money for you, or do you pick and choose funds? Coz i would have no clue what to invest in. Any advice?
    Originally posted by coldjim
    There is an auto invest and monthly plan product from Octopus Choice which i would assume with regards platform safety to come from one of the bigger companies in this field due to the relative size of the parent company(but there is still the general risk of this market) and the fact they have been in investments for quite a while running funds/VCT & recently Octopus cash a savings product in partnership with some challenger banks.Could be worth some research if interested but would only consider P2P for a small part of your pot
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