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  • jamesd
    A sad general update by MoneyThing today where they are in effect saying that they are going to continue to lie by omission to lenders about the actual state and risk of loans.

    Most prominent, perhaps, is them saying that we won't normally be told that a monthly payment hasn't been made until 14 days after it was due. So if you only want to buy a loan that made its last payment you have that extra wait time. What they should be doing is declaring it immediately and perhaps freezing in place or adding an extra caution to buyers on the secondary market so you don't buy while the loan state is being misrepresented by MoneyThing.

    Accurate descriptions to buyers shouldn't be regarded as optional.
    • economic
    • By economic 13th Mar 18, 6:29 PM
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    economic
    Does anyone know whats happening to the Prestbury defaulted loan? I exited MT but have some money stuck with this defaulted loan. Would be nice to have some closure on it so i can get back some of my money.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Mar 18, 6:37 PM
    • 17,395 Posts
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    AdrianC
    December - administrator accepted sale offer, sufficient to repay in full (including interest and costs). Completion expected Jan.
    End Jan - due diligence ongoing
    End Feb - sale still in progress
    Early Mar - sale still in progress, update when there's news.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 13th Mar 18, 6:56 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    A sad general update by MoneyThing today where they are in effect saying that they are going to continue to lie by omission to lenders about the actual state and risk of loans.

    Most prominent, perhaps, is them saying that we won't normally be told that a monthly payment hasn't been made until 14 days after it was due. So if you only want to buy a loan that made its last payment you have that extra wait time. What they should be doing is declaring it immediately and perhaps freezing in place or adding an extra caution to buyers on the secondary market so you don't buy while the loan state is being misrepresented by MoneyThing.

    Accurate descriptions to buyers shouldn't be regarded as optional.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    I was not impressed by the update myself James from MT. I don't agree with the 14 days either after late payment telling investors, as you said people could be buying into these loans on the secondary market during a period of late payment.

    My gut feeling has been to run MT down and get out as best as possible, I have lost faith in them, nothing has been recovered yet from the property defaults so far and with some of them, the development loans it seems to me they have their work cut out and the more easier defaults out of them, like Prestbury nothing real solid has come yet.

    I have some loans left that are non property with MT, part of me is tempted to sell them now to reduce off the platform and put the funds elsewhere, the defaults will have to wait and see and other funds are in a massive sales queue.

    What I am prepared to keep in P2P I am simplifying dispite some lower rates with say Lending Works, but factor in potential losses from MT defaults and maybe Collateral and less time involved and headaches, I am opting for more of this style with more protection after the recent problems.

    Also for MT loans being interest only until repayment for the risk and defaults now and after Collateral, Ablrate offering a lot of amortising loans is another strong factor now.

    I will think over selling out of some other MT loans now to reduce the platform as these will sell quick unlike the property development loans stuck in the sales queue.

    The last 12 months has been a real game changer, I have rid several platforms now and others I am not interested in and now narrowing the last throw of the dice down to a few for me in P2P.
    • economic
    • By economic 13th Mar 18, 7:17 PM
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    economic
    December - administrator accepted sale offer, sufficient to repay in full (including interest and costs). Completion expected Jan.
    End Jan - due diligence ongoing
    End Feb - sale still in progress
    Early Mar - sale still in progress, update when there's news.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Update when there's news basically means "sod off investors and stop wasting our time".
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Mar 18, 7:19 PM
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    AdrianC
    Update when there's news basically means "sod off investors and stop wasting our time".
    Originally posted by economic
    Property sale legals in a month would be optimistic... even ignoring the Xmas/NY go-slow.
    • economic
    • By economic 13th Mar 18, 7:25 PM
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    economic
    I was not impressed by the update myself James from MT. I don't agree with the 14 days either after late payment telling investors, as you said people could be buying into these loans on the secondary market during a period of late payment.

    My gut feeling has been to run MT down and get out as best as possible, I have lost faith in them, nothing has been recovered yet from the property defaults so far and with some of them, the development loans it seems to me they have their work cut out and the more easier defaults out of them, like Prestbury nothing real solid has come yet.

    I have some loans left that are non property with MT, part of me is tempted to sell them now to reduce off the platform and put the funds elsewhere, the defaults will have to wait and see and other funds are in a massive sales queue.

    What I am prepared to keep in P2P I am simplifying dispite some lower rates with say Lending Works, but factor in potential losses from MT defaults and maybe Collateral and less time involved and headaches, I am opting for more of this style with more protection after the recent problems.

    Also for MT loans being interest only until repayment for the risk and defaults now and after Collateral, Ablrate offering a lot of amortising loans is another strong factor now.

    I will think over selling out of some other MT loans now to reduce the platform as these will sell quick unlike the property development loans stuck in the sales queue.

    The last 12 months has been a real game changer, I have rid several platforms now and others I am not interested in and now narrowing the last throw of the dice down to a few for me in P2P.
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    I have got my original investment back in MT (which includes nominal plus interest) and a bit of interest so I'm safe from a capital loss perspective. Just waiting to recover the defaulted loan so that it was all worth it with MT.
    • economic
    • By economic 13th Mar 18, 7:27 PM
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    economic
    All in all P2P has been a not so worth it experience for me except for two platforms: Abl and lending works.

    Haven't made losses although still waiting for lendy to actually do some work, but on the whole given the time and effort and risk just simply not worth it at all.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Mar 18, 7:33 PM
    • 17,395 Posts
    • 15,760 Thanks
    AdrianC
    By comparison, since my first deposit into FC nearly four years ago and across eleven platforms (not all current), I'm sitting at 6.7% XIRR.
  • jamesd
    My gut feeling has been to run MT down and get out as best as possible, I have lost faith in them... I have some loans left that are non property with MT, part of me is tempted to sell them now to reduce off the platform and put the funds elsewhere, the defaults will have to wait and see and other funds are in a massive sales queue.
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    I don't advocate that, just sad to see them appearing to head in a direction that might turn out to be a Lendy approach. There's enough risk from borrowers trying to hide things without platforms getting in on that act as well.

    Ablrate offering a lot of amortising loans is another strong factor now.
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    Yes, and I think that the LTV improvement and risk reduction of a loan that has been amortising for a while is one of the things that often isn't well enough appreciated.

    Update when there's news basically means "sod off investors and stop wasting our time".
    Originally posted by economic
    More just the normal slow progress of sales, particularly for defaulted loans.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 13th Mar 18, 7:58 PM
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    takesyourchances
    I have got my original investment back in MT (which includes nominal plus interest) and a bit of interest so I'm safe from a capital loss perspective. Just waiting to recover the defaulted loan so that it was all worth it with MT.
    Originally posted by economic
    That is good you have got out of MT with your investment back and interest made.. Fingers crossed on the default recovery. I am stuck in quite a few loans in the sales lines as such, hopefully none of these will turn to defaults. I have made around 400 interest in the time I have been with them, 750 in defaults so hopefully some can be recovered. I could sell out of a few hundred tonight that will sell, I am thinking to do this and swap any MT sales funds over to Ablrate into amortising loans.

    All in all P2P has been a not so worth it experience for me except for two platforms: Abl and lending works.

    Haven't made losses although still waiting for lendy to actually do some work, but on the whole given the time and effort and risk just simply not worth it at all.
    Originally posted by economic
    Ablrate has been my most sucessful platform to date and dispite headaches of others, I have continued hopes for Ablrate. I have never went into Lendy. Lending Works after looking into them a lot recently and weighing up risk / protection and ease of use / time I am happy to divert funds to them.

    I have around 500 in unbolted so far, that was my swap for Collateral bling and I will try them out for a while to see how that goes. Just deposit and auto set, so less time. I opened Growth Street after reading up on it and several reviews, rate is lower but loans of 30 days appeals to me for some funds too and can be left on auto invest and good track record so far for investors.

    So I am giving these a try.

    I agree, the time and effort put in is a lot and the risk, the time and effort was put in to help deal with the risk and then some things go out of your control like the Collateral experience.

    If I can keep Ablrate as a core P2P all continuing well and a few auto accounts doing their thing - Lending Works, Unbolted and Growth Street that would do me with P2P. This is the last of what appeals to me at the moment in P2P.

    I will run MT down and wait on what happens with Collateral with a view to any returned funds being used elsewhere. I know I am repeating myself but it is the development loans that have become a bugbear and easy saying it now, but having been around property developments for many years in the past I know a lot of the pitfalls of the developments stages and will be more relaxed when fully out of these
    Last edited by takesyourchances; 13-03-2018 at 8:05 PM.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 13th Mar 18, 8:18 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I don't advocate that, just sad to see them appearing to head in a direction that might turn out to be a Lendy approach. There's enough risk from borrowers trying to hide things without platforms getting in on that act as well.

    Yes, and I think that the LTV improvement and risk reduction of a loan that has been amortising for a while is one of the things that often isn't well enough appreciated.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    I don't like the hiding of things either to investors, as you said enough risk from the borrowers doing that without the platforms getting in on it.

    I have come to learn to really appreciate the amortising loans on Ablrate, there is something about seeing a re-payment with part capital back and interest together and the break down of return and something I am more conscious of now when investing.

    It can be easier for a borrower to just pay the interest back, but when it comes to the capital repayment the problems can start. So getting capital and interest together monthly with Ablrates amortising loans at a good rate is more appealing now than ever.

    There has been a lot of factors like this and the others mentioned that have changed my gut feeling and thoughts towards investing any more with MT and especially waiting to see results from recovery too.

    It took a lot of deciding to go with MT, Ablrate and Collateral and avoided others, so I feel I am just left more comfortable with Ablrate over MT now.
    Last edited by takesyourchances; 13-03-2018 at 8:21 PM.
    • keyboardworrier
    • By keyboardworrier 15th Mar 18, 10:54 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    keyboardworrier
    Unbolted are judging interest in a property loan which will have a secondary market, at 10% for a second charge loan I am not sure I will be investing but it's an interesting move by them.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 16th Mar 18, 1:38 AM
    • 620 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    Unbolted are judging interest in a property loan which will have a secondary market, at 10% for a second charge loan I am not sure I will be investing but it's an interesting move by them.
    Originally posted by keyboardworrier
    I got the email, I won't be going into it with unbolted if they launch that loan, purely I went there for the bling loans to get something different to property related loans.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 16th Mar 18, 9:52 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    New blog post on financialthing which I read on Collateral, maybe of interest to those tied up in it.

    http://www.financialthing.com/collateral-p2p/
    • Somerset La La La
    • By Somerset La La La 17th Mar 18, 8:39 AM
    • 537 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    Somerset La La La
    Unsurprisingly, another MT loan has gone into a technical default. I was planning to use that money next week but made alternative plans when the date kept slipping back!

    This time it does genuinely look like the company doing the refinance are dragging their feet, but why do borrowers leave it so late!? 18% default interest + whatever fees/loading MT charge (even if it is for less than a week) on 300k isn't cheap.

    Technically default interest should've started to be paid earlier too, rather than just from this latest setback! Although I suppose MT have used their discretion to allow it to extend, and extend, and extend!

    Just seen the 'General Update' that has been mentioned. 14 days does seem a long time to allow it to still show as "performing" when live trades are being carried out on the SM! I'd allow something like 3 working days personally to allow for banking errors - but shouldn't these loans have a Direct Debit or Standing Order in place?

    If a company are messing about and changing dates or whatever to pay interest up to 14 days late, it really makes me worry about the capital aspect!

    I've not signed up to Ablrate but keep reading good things about them. Do they have any kind of sign up incentive?
    Last edited by Somerset La La La; 17-03-2018 at 8:42 AM.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 17th Mar 18, 12:07 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I saw this regarding the self storage in Merseyside on MT, I am not in this one. Not good for MT this again.

    Regarding Ablrate, there is no sign up incentives as such. But so far they are running things well, they have an IFISA, loan quality has been solid, options of amortising loans which I like as paying captial back along with interest helps reduce the risk too.

    With the recent problems in other platforms I have learnt to appreciate amortising payments and while we can't predict the future, I hope Ablrate keeps going the way they are.
    • economic
    • By economic 17th Mar 18, 12:37 PM
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    economic
    I think i will only stick with:

    Lendingworks (10k) and ABL (4k).

    What are your thoughts on ratesetter? Why exit it?

    Rest i am exiting - but out of my control as most is stuck due to illiquidity.

    Have around 35k total P2P to be reduced to 14k eventually...
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 17th Mar 18, 1:18 PM
    • 1,287 Posts
    • 1,099 Thanks
    TheShape
    Unsurprisingly, another MT loan has gone into a technical default. I was planning to use that money next week but made alternative plans when the date kept slipping back!
    Originally posted by Somerset La La La
    I've learned this last month or so that you cannot rely on being able to quickly access money invested in p2p, even on those platforms that appeared to offer good Secondary Market liquidity. Obviously my investment in Collateral is unavailable for the foreseeable future but even before this the MT secondary market had become very illiquid.

    I'm in the process now of withdrawing all funds from p2p.

    My investment with Ablrate has now been reduced to zero. The secondary market there has been the most liquid by far and I've managed to dispose of all my loans at prices above par quite quickly. The automated emails to alert me to a trade on the secondary market has been very useful as were their capital/interest repayment notifications as they allowed me to simply log in and process a withdrawal following notification. The ability to discount loans for sale could be of significant benefit for someone wishing for a quick sale. Withdrawals generally take two working days.

    MT investment stands at approx 4400 with 3800 sitting in slow moving sales queues on the secondary market. They are moving but it will take weeks/months before all my loan parts are sold. The quicker the Self Storage loan resolves and the better the outcomes are for the defaulted loans the quicker I expect my loan parts to sell. A good run of loans repaying on time and some satisfactory resolutions of defaulted loans will go a long way towards resolving some of the current issues with MoneyThing. Withdrawals are usually credited same day, often within a few hours.

    My Unbolted account is set to not auto-invest and as with Ablrate the notifications of loan repayments make it very straightforward to log in and make withdrawals once prompted. Withrawals usually credited next working day.

    My Lendingworks account is now also set to withdraw capital and interest once repayed, the automated system making this quite straightforward. Clearly this is a long-term process as the loan terms are up to 5 years unless I wish to pay a fee to exit more quickly.

    My Funding Secure account has only 75 invested with one loan overdue since October but I'd not invested a great deal with them anyway and the secondary market worked quite well when I used it. The other two loans there are left to run to term (or beyond).

    I may find that I've been somewhat premature is reducing/withdrawing my p2p investments but with LISA allowances available for this tax year and next, some home improvement work and a potentially expensive holiday on the horizon it makes sense for me currently. When a clearer picture is available re Collateral, I will be able to make an informed decision over future p2p investments.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 17th Mar 18, 2:07 PM
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    takesyourchances
    I think i will only stick with:

    Lendingworks (10k) and ABL (4k).

    What are your thoughts on ratesetter? Why exit it?

    Rest i am exiting - but out of my control as most is stuck due to illiquidity.

    Have around 35k total P2P to be reduced to 14k eventually...
    Originally posted by economic
    I can certainly see why you feel with sticking with Ablrate and Lending Works once you reduce down. I plan for these to be my P2P core platforms eventually too if things can get shaped this way.

    Ratesetter, for me my overall amount fell below 5% into the higher 4% bracket, with re-payments and lump sum repayments on the 5 year. I made a mental rule with myself never to re-invest in RS below 5%.

    Rates can be hard to catch and can fluctuate quite low and it was getting quite annoying checking them for all that was going in. This was my reason getting out and also it was a way for me to reduce me P2P down a little which I changed into my IT's. Yield is not far off the rates sometimes on RT and chance of growth as I buy and hold long term. It was not for the risk of losing money with me with RT like MT.

    Tbh, if your happy with the rate your funds are getting on RT, there is maybe no reason to sell. It is a different animal to MT / risk etc.

    I done a complete new spreadsheet of all my overall investments last night (an overhaul spreadsheet was overdue), I see how I let P2P run away last year. My P2P has been reduced to just under 15k now. I feel more comfortable now, but 4600 out of this is tied in Collateral, MT is now reduced to 2389 as I sold out of loans I could sell to reduce the platform. 750 of which is left is in default loans. All that is left on MT is for sale but is stuck too due to illiquidity with the rest for sale from others. I will just let it take its course here.

    I am experimenting with unbolted a little still and few hundred in growth street to see how that all works for the 30 day business credit loans. Idea is also funds should not be tied up too long if I ever want to withdraw or reduce.

    But overall my P2P is reduced, the biggest change for me compared to a year ago now is new money going in has drastically changed and platforms cut out. I will balance some payments back into lending works and add some new funds here and there to LW while the rate is 6%.

    Ablrate at the moment I am just re-investing repayments as they come in as it is now my highest holding over 5k. This is also to keep control of my P2P level against other investments and when I do add some new money to new loans etc, I will have to think how much I am comfortable holding in Ablrate as one platform or do a just re-invest payments / withdraw after a certain overall level.

    I am adding and plan to add more to my S&S ISA and into some of my investment trusts and raise my cash level up a little. My new spreadsheet is letting me see everything overall together and I don't really want to be much heavier at the moment in P2P overall and I want to see some outcomes from MT start to happen good or bad and same with Collateral.

    Also I will buy the odd 250 holding with property partner.

    Overall, my P2P is on a major slowdown with new money compared to before and a plan of direction in narrowing down platforms to hold with, like you Albrate, Lending Works and I will see how Growth Street goes and Unbolted goes. Also the other major thing, I won't let my P2P overall percentage run away in line with my overall investments so this spreadsheet overall was needed last night
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