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    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Mar 18, 12:16 PM
    • 17,395 Posts
    • 15,762 Thanks
    AdrianC
    The rules of that other forum do not apply here so you're free to completely ignore them.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    They're MT's "rules", and all MT lenders agreed to abide by them when they opened their account.

    They aren't actually "MT's rules", though. They're a commercial requirement of one of the parties involved in the loan. MT are merely requiring you to abide by that.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 10th Mar 18, 4:54 PM
    • 627 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    Plenty coming up with Ablrate going on their update and they seem to be interested in Collateral. Hopefully Collateral investors get some updates soon, ideally start to see something returned and the web site returned for viewing accounts.
    • Somerset La La La
    • By Somerset La La La 10th Mar 18, 5:20 PM
    • 537 Posts
    • 168 Thanks
    Somerset La La La
    I know there's some talk on MT in terms of both communication (or lack of!) and the 'secrecy' - that term struck me as odd too, but as jamesd says, it's not an MT rule. Although I'd hope the relevant third party has been told it'll be listed on a large P2P platform.... there's bigger issues than a simple confidentiality clause if they aren't aware!!!

    If they are aware.... they must know that confidentiality clause isn't worth much - how many people are registered on MT??

    Also I had my LendInvest default back a few days ago, 5 months after the end of the term. Given that the borrower only requested an extension a matter of days before expiry of the term in terms of interest rates and communication MT are miles better.

    And saying that, I've got 2 defaulted MT loans I haven't seen any recovery on yet either!

    I doubt I'll be going back to LendInvest, as their rates are so much poorer for what seem similar risk loans IMO.

    MT I'm skeptical of going back in until I see some capital recovery - plus nearly every end date has been missed that I've invested in. With possibility of needing the capital this year, I think I'll stick to Growthstreet @ 5% - never had an issue with them and 30 day (max) notice is a lot safer. Only way you'll get a late payment with GS is if they declare a 'resolution event' which would erode confidence - so seems somewhat unlikely (although not impossible)
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 10th Mar 18, 6:40 PM
    • 627 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    MT I'm skeptical of going back in until I see some capital recovery - plus nearly every end date has been missed that I've invested in. With possibility of needing the capital this year, I think I'll stick to Growthstreet @ 5% - never had an issue with them and 30 day (max) notice is a lot safer. Only way you'll get a late payment with GS is if they declare a 'resolution event' which would erode confidence - so seems somewhat unlikely (although not impossible)
    Originally posted by Somerset La La La
    I agree with your post, I am not putting anymore into MT, certainly not until some movement with the defaults happens and recovers, if I even put any back in, it won't be property developments. I am trying to reduce the platform at the moment down.

    I read about Growth Street in reviews and the fact the loans are just 30 days, it seems interesting for an automatic account and lower risk.

    As I reduce down from MT and fingers crossed get something back from Collateral, I am just keeping Ablrate with no reduction plans and using Lending Works etc with some in unbolted.

    I may take a look at Growth Street with the shorter durations of loans and the different style of loans for some of the money I hopefully can reduce from MT and get back from Collateral.
    • economic
    • By economic 10th Mar 18, 6:52 PM
    • 2,940 Posts
    • 1,586 Thanks
    economic
    i decided to keep lending works - have 10k in there. abl will also keep have 4k.

    rest - fc, rs, zopa, assetz will wind down as loans mature.

    im down from 52k peak P2P exposure to 35k. Feel a lot more comfortable now but some way to go to get to desired levels.
    • economic
    • By economic 10th Mar 18, 7:00 PM
    • 2,940 Posts
    • 1,586 Thanks
    economic
    fc - has been experiencing quite a few bad loans. have exited nearly everything bar a few hundred stuck because of defaults. will see what actual returns are but my guess is that is not what is advertised but below.

    rs - locked in 5-6% loans for 1y and 5y. Have 10k with them will just let mature as rates are very good given current rates.

    assetz - waiting for 30d account to give my cash then will just have 2k in the manual account at decent rates which will just mature.

    zopa - have 2k with them will just let mature or may sell later at a cost. rates are too low for risk imo.
  • jamesd
    They're MT's "rules", and all MT lenders agreed to abide by them when they opened their account.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Most of the rules of the other forum have nothing to do with MT. Want to write about the Lendy DFL015 Penrhos Court, Lyonshall, Kington, Herefordshire loan or share due diligence information with everyone, go ahead, * free, complete with links to Companies House or much, though not all, Land Registry information. That's all completely public information and the restrictions at the other place are just the invention of the admins there.

    This specific MT loan does have a restriction which should be respected because not doing so could invalidate the protection involved and harm both borrower and lenders. It's the sort of thing that really does need protecting.
    Last edited by jamesd; 10-03-2018 at 7:35 PM.
  • jamesd
    I know there's some talk on MT in terms of both communication (or lack of!) and the 'secrecy' - that term struck me as odd too, but as jamesd says, it's not an MT rule.
    Originally posted by Somerset La La La
    There is actually an MT rule, though:

    "19.2 You agree not to make attempts to establish the identity of or contact any of our other Lender Members or Borrowers."

    That's so obviously a failure to treat lenders fairly and an unfair contract term that until they clarified that it was not intended to block normal discussion and due diligence I was going to report it to the FCA unfair contract terms team. On its face it prohibits:

    1. Due diligence or doing anything other than relying on MT's marketing material.
    2. Asking someone else if they use MT. Chatting with them in the pub or in other ways if they do.
    3. Use of the MT section in any forum unless you first verify that you're the only lender using it.
    4. Taking financial advice about an MT loan (your IFA would have to sign up and would then be barred from communicating with you). Your IFA wouldn't be able to help much anyway, the regulated activity is advising on P2P loan contracts and MT refuses to disclose them so the only possible advice is either don't or we can't advise.
    5. Forming an MT lender's association or action group.
    6. There's an MT loan to a hotel but you're banned from using that hotel because you'd have to contact the borrower to check in or order a meal.
    7. There's an MT loan for student flats but you're banned from buying them because you'd have to contact the borrower.

    It's good that they clarified but that term really needs replacing with something sensible.
    Last edited by jamesd; 10-03-2018 at 7:48 PM.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 10th Mar 18, 7:47 PM
    • 627 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    i decided to keep lending works - have 10k in there. abl will also keep have 4k.

    rest - fc, rs, zopa, assetz will wind down as loans mature.

    im down from 52k peak P2P exposure to 35k. Feel a lot more comfortable now but some way to go to get to desired levels.
    Originally posted by economic
    Good to read your P2P latest and what you have decided on. Lending Works and Ablrate I think are a good choice to keep. I am happy to add into Lending Works from repayments from MT etc.

    I got out of FC way last year, I got out with a small profit, but defaults are about 70 with nothing back from it. The sellout was fast and got out with about 100 on top. I would not touch FC again.

    That is good you are at a more comfortable level, that is important. Growth Street interests me as a little diversification for short term loans along with Lending Works on the auto accounts to keep things simple.

    I am fully out of fc, rs, zopa and assetz now.

    I have also been upping my cash levels a bit too. Hopefully things are heading in the right direction. My Ablrate is at 5500 and so far so good and if I keep 2 - 3 other auto accounts - Lending Works, Unbolted and maybe Growth Street I would be happy with that at the moment and raise my cash level back up more towards my levels of last year which I am working on.
    Last edited by takesyourchances; 10-03-2018 at 10:12 PM.
  • jamesd
    what happens int he situation when there are no assets to pay administrators?
    Originally posted by economic
    Investors pay. That's the situation the customers of stock broker Beaufort Securities that entered administration on 2 March are in.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 10th Mar 18, 10:14 PM
    • 627 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    There is actually an MT rule, though:

    "19.2 You agree not to make attempts to establish the identity of or contact any of our other Lender Members or Borrowers."

    That's so obviously a failure to treat lenders fairly and an unfair contract term that until they clarified that it was not intended to block normal discussion and due diligence I was going to report it to the FCA unfair contract terms team. On its face it prohibits:

    1. Due diligence or doing anything other than relying on MT's marketing material.
    2. Asking someone else if they use MT. Chatting with them in the pub or in other ways if they do.
    3. Use of the MT section in any forum unless you first verify that you're the only lender using it.
    4. Taking financial advice about an MT loan (your IFA would have to sign up and would then be barred from communicating with you). Your IFA wouldn't be able to help much anyway, the regulated activity is advising on P2P loan contracts and MT refuses to disclose them so the only possible advice is either don't or we can't advise.
    5. Forming an MT lender's association or action group.
    6. There's an MT loan to a hotel but you're banned from using that hotel because you'd have to contact the borrower to check in or order a meal.
    7. There's an MT loan for student flats but you're banned from buying them because you'd have to contact the borrower.

    It's good that they clarified but that term really needs replacing with something sensible.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    What is your thoughts going forward at the moment James with MT, are you also looking to scale back from the platform?

    The MT rule above is way over the top.
  • jamesd
    What is your thoughts going forward at the moment James with MT, are you also looking to scale back from the platform?
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    Depends on the individual loans and what else is going on.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 11th Mar 18, 1:34 PM
    • 627 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    Depends on the individual loans and what else is going on.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    Understand. I think Collateral has dealt us all a blow in P2P and many of the same investors are tied in some MT defaults at the same time.

    Nothing is very attractive at MT for me at the moment, so will see if anything happens with these defaults too and will be more content when I can reduce out of the property developments there, hopefully.

    I am opting for a more simplified P2P with some more protection in place with platforms, I know they are lower rates but I would take that for the added protection and less time hands on. I will aim for amortlising loans with Ablrate toomostly.This is another added attraction over MT for me.
    • shoi
    • By shoi 12th Mar 18, 10:33 AM
    • 133 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    shoi
    On looking further, the official ablrate rep on that forum "ablrate" posted this yesterday Quote: We have contacted the administrators to see if there is anything we can do to assist.

    I don't think ABL have any expertise in development loans do they? It's not even just that the COL loans need running down, some of the development loans need additional tranches to complete ie more money to be raised, and even though the borrowers are blameless re the present troubles they will probably be stuck with the bad reputation.
  • jamesd
    I don't think ABL have any expertise in development loans do they? It's not even just that the COL loans need running down, some of the development loans need additional tranches to complete ie more money to be raised
    Originally posted by shoi
    No, but they might be able to help with runoff or might even want do do some property development or bridging lending. Collateral was starting to do useful things on the loan tracking front. Ablrate might also be interested in hiring people who've lost their jobs.
  • jamesd
    Some of the earlier tranche of the MT Everton Brow loan that was withdrawn today is available on the secondary market. I suggest not buying it. There's a chance that the borrower may be unable to find replacement financing for that tranche, leading to a default instead. If you want some, better to invest in it if it shows up at another P2P site. That way you'll be helping the developer with the refinance as well.
    • keyboardworrier
    • By keyboardworrier 12th Mar 18, 12:31 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    keyboardworrier
    Assetz Capital have a new deal on - "For a limited time only you can earn an extra 1% p.a. gross target interest on any new lent funds across all of our accounts until 30th June 2018"
    It's perfect timing for me as I am moving money into there from Ratesetter!
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 12th Mar 18, 7:27 PM
    • 627 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    No, but they might be able to help with runoff or might even want do do some property development or bridging lending. Collateral was starting to do useful things on the loan tracking front. Ablrate might also be interested in hiring people who've lost their jobs.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    I would love to see Ablrate steer away from property development loans, hopefully they can keep away from this route that Collateral took and MT with these.

    I am not surprised the MT development loan did not fill and was withdrawn, the appetite of investors on the platform for this is maybe changing direction with recent problems and funds tied up.
  • jamesd
    Well, property development is arguably the riskiest type of P2P lending so no surprise to have some issues, particularly as people learn about what can go wrong and how badly. I'm very glad that I took the view I did about Lendy and avoided them, though! I'm not greatly keen to have Ablrate do it either.

    For anyone who wants more at Ablrate I'm seeing secondary market prices there for some loans that are as much as or more than 1% lower than usual. I can't exploit it at the moment because of end of tax year things and the need to have a lot of money for building work but maybe you can. It's a good chance to do more diversifying.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 12th Mar 18, 11:58 PM
    • 627 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    Well, property development is arguably the riskiest type of P2P lending so no surprise to have some issues, particularly as people learn about what can go wrong and how badly. I'm very glad that I took the view I did about Lendy and avoided them, though! I'm not greatly keen to have Ablrate do it either.

    For anyone who wants more at Ablrate I'm seeing secondary market prices there for some loans that are as much as or more than 1% lower than usual. I can't exploit it at the moment because of end of tax year things and the need to have a lot of money for building work but maybe you can. It's a good chance to do more diversifying.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    Totally agree on the risk of property developments, Lendy never appealed to me either and I see a string of development defaults on their default list.

    When Ablrate sent out their email following Collateral, I replied in general and said I hoped they would not go down the property development route, never got reply, but thought it was at least some feedback to the platform.

    The property developments became too much for Collateral to fill and the tipping point came not long after they admitted that, MT is struggling with appeal for these too. I think the second Scotland loan was not getting much / slow interest too. Fingers crossed Ablrate stay with the direction they are in and I would be disappointed if the development route started to appear. Tbh I would prefer to be in their portfolio loans over property developments with lesser rate even with liquidity that comes with those, it would seem to be more stable if your prepared to hold.

    Thanks for the tip for Ablrate, I don't have much spare funds this week after investing some already in other areas, just re-investing re-payments as they come in to Albrate and will await what else comes up on the platform.
    Last edited by takesyourchances; 13-03-2018 at 12:02 AM.
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