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    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 12th Feb 18, 9:12 PM
    • 599 Posts
    • 359 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    If I were still under 40 I would open one anyway. In a few years time you might be glad of an extra home for some investments. What have you got to lose?
    Originally posted by AlanP
    That is a very fair point Alan, could regret it after 40 as no option then. I don't have to fill the years allowance right away, might be glad of it in later years for an extra investment home.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 12th Feb 18, 11:05 PM
    • 1,267 Posts
    • 1,075 Thanks
    TheShape
    Good to read your update as well as we were investing over similar periods in P2P. I have been pondering the LISA before I pass the age you can open them, I am 38 now, I like the access the S&S ISA can give if I want to drawn anything at any point before pensions as I already have property so if I was opening an LISA it would be for retirement.

    The lack of bling on Collateral and heavy change into property and some big projects halted recent money flowing into it from me. I recall you signed up to Unbolted for bling etc following the slowdown in Collateral, how have you found it?

    I think I will still be adding to P2P at the moment but slowing the pace down from last year and be open to review things as needs be. I added to my S&S ISA today to some investments that have went down and I am adding weekly into it too drip feeding.
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    I've got 11 years to invest in the LISA. That's 11 years that I can use it or lose it. As a basic rate taxpayer, currently contributing to a DB pension I think the LISA could offer some flexibility in funding retirement past 60.

    Ideally I'll continue to fund the LISA, a SIPP and a S&S ISA but I'm going to have to see if I have the funds to continue funding the S&S ISA and SIPP to the same level as currently once funding the LISA. I'm prepared to sacrifice the SIPP and S&S ISA contributions for now in the hope that future salary increases or some further borrowing against my home provides some additional funds for investing.

    Been with Unbolted for approx 6 months. I have only approx £900 invested, partly as the deal flow is very slow and partly because I wasn't topping up the account often enough. I'm topping up more regularly now but only being allocated between £50 and £75 of new loans per week. It's proving more useful for diversification rather than making large investments.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 12th Feb 18, 11:09 PM
    • 1,267 Posts
    • 1,075 Thanks
    TheShape
    That is a very fair point Alan, could regret it after 40 as no option then. I don't have to fill the years allowance right away, might be glad of it in later years for an extra investment home.
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    At the absolute minimum you could open a Skipton LISA with £1 before age 40 to keep your options open.
    • Davina40
    • By Davina40 13th Feb 18, 12:21 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Davina40
    Remember P2P has not been tested in a recession.
    Originally posted by economic
    The only one around in the 2008 recession was Zopa and they did ok, positive returns every year. But yes, the p2p marketplace has changed a lot since then.
    • economic
    • By economic 13th Feb 18, 1:00 AM
    • 2,940 Posts
    • 1,582 Thanks
    economic
    The only one around in the 2008 recession was Zopa and they did ok, positive returns every year. But yes, the p2p marketplace has changed a lot since then.
    Originally posted by Davina40
    Zopa was a lot smaller then and only starting out. Presumably their u writing standards would have been a lot stricter then now as they played it safe as a new platform. Once competition arrives then it is only natural to loosen underwriting standards to gain market shares. That is why I think risks with these platforms are potentially very understated and something like a recession would show this.
    • Fatbritabroad
    • By Fatbritabroad 13th Feb 18, 8:25 AM
    • 345 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    Fatbritabroad
    I personally equate p2p loans with buying individual shares in terms of risk. I assume jn a downturn I could theoretically lose everything I have in them. Most of my loans have less than 100 in them and the most has 400 in the new portfolio loan. I have just under 4k in ablrate and 2k in ratesetter and I'll be taking that out in 29 days time. Ill probably put this back in cash. In contract I have 13k in cash and 25k in stocks and shares and 130k in my company pension so if I lost the lot I'd be gutted but I wouldn't be homeless. Its very tempting to ramp it up but I'm just too risk averse. I'm just reinvesting interest and repaid capital pretty much now
    • Fatbritabroad
    • By Fatbritabroad 13th Feb 18, 8:26 AM
    • 345 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    Fatbritabroad
    On another point is something like ratesetter lower risk than ablrate? The interest would appear to say yes but I tend to equate all p2p the same but maybe that's too simplistic
    • msallen
    • By msallen 13th Feb 18, 8:52 AM
    • 779 Posts
    • 844 Thanks
    msallen
    On another point is something like ratesetter lower risk than ablrate? The interest would appear to say yes but I tend to equate all p2p the same but maybe that's too simplistic
    Originally posted by Fatbritabroad
    As you say the interest rate implies it, but it might not be quite as simple as double the rate, double the risk. Ratesetter and ablrate offer a very different product.

    Ratesetter shields you from individual loans - your money will be lent out on a variety of loans at a variety of rates, all higher than the amalgamated rate paid to you, but has a provision fund to (theoretically) cover defaults, whereas on ABL you are investing in individual loans at their full rate (i.e. full rate available to the investor, obviously ABL charge the borrower more than this) but you stand the risk of the loan defaulting.

    I personally equate p2p loans with buying individual shares in terms of risk
    by Fatbritabroad
    Ratesetter in more analogous to a fund and ablrate is more analogous to individual shares (or moreso bonds)
    • Fatbritabroad
    • By Fatbritabroad 13th Feb 18, 1:55 PM
    • 345 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    Fatbritabroad
    As you say the interest rate implies it, but it might not be quite as simple as double the rate, double the risk. Ratesetter and ablrate offer a very different product.

    Ratesetter shields you from individual loans - your money will be lent out on a variety of loans at a variety of rates, all higher than the amalgamated rate paid to you, but has a provision fund to (theoretically) cover defaults, whereas on ABL you are investing in individual loans at their full rate (i.e. full rate available to the investor, obviously ABL charge the borrower more than this) but you stand the risk of the loan defaulting.



    Ratesetter in more analogous to a fund and ablrate is more analogous to individual shares (or moreso bonds)
    Originally posted by msallen
    So the logic would be I should be more confident of having a higher sum in ratesetter?
    • msallen
    • By msallen 13th Feb 18, 2:46 PM
    • 779 Posts
    • 844 Thanks
    msallen
    So the logic would be I should be more confident of having a higher sum in ratesetter?
    Originally posted by Fatbritabroad
    Possibly if you want a fire an forget investment. Personally I don't consider the return from Ratesetter to be worth the risk (its less but still there) so after getting the intro bonus a year or two back have never used them again. I don't invest in any "provision fund backed, amalgamated loans" p2p. I prefer to stick to individual asset backed loans at a far higher rate. That means I have to do some due diligence, and be prepared to accept the occasional default, but (so far) the returns are far batter.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 14th Feb 18, 6:06 PM
    • 599 Posts
    • 359 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I've got 11 years to invest in the LISA. That's 11 years that I can use it or lose it. As a basic rate taxpayer, currently contributing to a DB pension I think the LISA could offer some flexibility in funding retirement past 60.

    Ideally I'll continue to fund the LISA, a SIPP and a S&S ISA but I'm going to have to see if I have the funds to continue funding the S&S ISA and SIPP to the same level as currently once funding the LISA. I'm prepared to sacrifice the SIPP and S&S ISA contributions for now in the hope that future salary increases or some further borrowing against my home provides some additional funds for investing.

    Been with Unbolted for approx 6 months. I have only approx £900 invested, partly as the deal flow is very slow and partly because I wasn't topping up the account often enough. I'm topping up more regularly now but only being allocated between £50 and £75 of new loans per week. It's proving more useful for diversification rather than making large investments.
    Originally posted by TheShape
    Good points on the LISA, I should open one even with a small amount so that I don't lose in past 39. The time passes in quick enough. As I would not be using it for a house, it would be locked I think until 60. I will look into opening to have the option.

    Thanks for the info on unbolted, I opened an account to try it out and I deposited £100. I see today a few small amounts have went into few loans. I set up the auto for prevision trust loans and gold trust loans. With the dry up of these types of new loans on collateral, I will give this a go for some diversification as you said.

    Seems very simple and straight forward the account and the auto.

    I think if I am right the bespoke loans is small business type loans, so I didm't select them as enough business loans in other platforms and wanted something different to property developments and business loans. Accounts open and first money in so see how it works.
    • thenewcomer
    • By thenewcomer 14th Feb 18, 11:35 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    thenewcomer
    until what age can one keep topping up the LISA?

    AlanP and takesyourchances- LISA is not for EXTRA home investement. you can only use the money for your FIRST house or as pension.
    • thenewcomer
    • By thenewcomer 14th Feb 18, 11:43 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    thenewcomer
    i have a large holding in p2p. i am selling some and cashing out the interest paid.

    not stocking up my shares portion until end of 2018 or 2019.
    • economic
    • By economic 19th Feb 18, 7:24 PM
    • 2,940 Posts
    • 1,582 Thanks
    economic
    I continue to de-risk from P2P. Not aggressively, just letting repayments go back to my bank account. People should be mindful of the fact that the loans are illiquid and maturity upto 5 years for most platforms. P2P has not been tested in a recession. It will take time to exit P2P given the illiquidity so i would run down your P2P portfolio. Hopefully mine will be run down mostly before the next recession.

    YOU DO NOT WANT SIGNIFICANT P2P EXPOSURE DURING A RECESSION!!!
    • buyhighselllow
    • By buyhighselllow 19th Feb 18, 7:38 PM
    • 71 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    buyhighselllow
    I continue to de-risk from P2P. Not aggressively, just letting repayments go back to my bank account. People should be mindful of the fact that the loans are illiquid and maturity upto 5 years for most platforms. P2P has not been tested in a recession. It will take time to exit P2P given the illiquidity so i would run down your P2P portfolio. Hopefully mine will be run down mostly before the next recession.

    YOU DO NOT WANT SIGNIFICANT P2P EXPOSURE DURING A RECESSION!!!
    Originally posted by economic
    probably agree to some extent but depends what type of asset loans you have invested in also..?...I would prefer to be less exposed, but with stock markets so buoyant ( so reluctant to lump in ) and interest rates so low its difficult to ignore what P2P offers at present.
    Over £1500 made from bank switches and P2P incentives since 2016

    Mortgage free. Still enjoy the good things but save where possible.

    Aim to retire by 55.
    • economic
    • By economic 19th Feb 18, 7:47 PM
    • 2,940 Posts
    • 1,582 Thanks
    economic
    probably agree to some extent but depends what type of asset loans you have invested in also..?...I would prefer to be less exposed, but with stock markets so buoyant ( so reluctant to lump in ) and interest rates so low its difficult to ignore what P2P offers at present.
    Originally posted by buyhighselllow
    Stocks even now are a better risk reward long term imo.

    P2p is like a cyclical stock - you definately donít want to own it in a recession.

    Yes asset backed loans are better just make sure ltv is low enough. Anything else shojld be derisked. But even asset backed stuff you have liquidity risk as chances of defaults higher and takes time to get back money as you have to sell the asset - in the worst possible time....
    • buyhighselllow
    • By buyhighselllow 19th Feb 18, 9:12 PM
    • 71 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    buyhighselllow
    Stocks even now are a better risk reward long term imo.

    P2p is like a cyclical stock - you definately donít want to own it in a recession.

    Yes asset backed loans are better just make sure ltv is low enough. Anything else shojld be derisked. But even asset backed stuff you have liquidity risk as chances of defaults higher and takes time to get back money as you have to sell the asset - in the worst possible time....
    Originally posted by economic
    I largely agree, I'm withdrawing gradually with a few exceptions.
    Over £1500 made from bank switches and P2P incentives since 2016

    Mortgage free. Still enjoy the good things but save where possible.

    Aim to retire by 55.
    • economic
    • By economic 19th Feb 18, 9:49 PM
    • 2,940 Posts
    • 1,582 Thanks
    economic
    I largely agree, I'm withdrawing gradually with a few exceptions.
    Originally posted by buyhighselllow
    Out of interest which ones are you keeping and why?
    • choochootrain
    • By choochootrain 19th Feb 18, 9:56 PM
    • 198 Posts
    • 144 Thanks
    choochootrain
    Only bling loans for me these days.
    • Jordan Stodart
    • By Jordan Stodart 19th Feb 18, 10:12 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Jordan Stodart

    YOU DO NOT WANT SIGNIFICANT P2P EXPOSURE DURING A RECESSION!!!
    Originally posted by economic
    You don't want significant exposure to P2P, in general, you want a balance - it is an alternative, after all. However, I'd generally disagree with your statement.

    P2P has proven to provide stable, predictable returns over time. It is uncorrelated, as the underlying assets are not on an exchange so, unlike traditional asset classes, P2P investments don't suffer volatile swings in the market.

    Imho, P2P lending will likely perform better in an economic recession than other asset classes. We did see this with Zopa, who weathered the last recession and, while default rates inevitably increased, still printed returns in the region 4% p.a.

    This does not mean P2P is not without risk, of course.
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