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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 12th Apr 07, 12:03 PM
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    MSE Martin
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Harry pay Ronís speeding fine?
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 07, 12:03 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Harry pay Ronís speeding fine? 12th Apr 07 at 12:03 PM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Should Harry pay Ron’s speeding fine?

    Harry's jetting off on holiday on a 5am flight. To help him out, Harry’s friend Ron kindly agrees to drive him to the airport. Yet, Harry wanted a lie-in, so they’re running late and cutting it fine. En-route Ron is caught speeding by a camera; he gets three penalty points and a £60 fine. Ron argues Harry should pay, because if he wasn’t doing him a favour he wouldn’t have got the fine.

    Enter the Money Moral Maze: Should Harry pay Ron’s speeding fine?

    Previous MMDs: Should Scott take Charlene's ad? and Should Carol take Sharon on?


    Last edited by MSE Martin; 17-04-2007 at 3:26 PM.
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.

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Page 1
    • Thunderbird
    • By Thunderbird 12th Apr 07, 1:30 PM
    • 612 Posts
    • 265 Thanks
    Thunderbird
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 07, 1:30 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 07, 1:30 PM
    Well,



    If it was me, not Ron, I wouldn't ask Harry to pay anything. It was my own fault.

    If it was me not Harry, I would pay Ron £60 for so many reasons:

    1. It's me! Who don't like getting people into trouble because of me! Enough he has got 2 points.
    2. This will teach me to hire a taxi next time.
    3. For Godness sake, I am flying so early and poor friend agreed to do me that huge favour instead of saying no and enjoying his sleep!

    Since Harry is not me, he should pay half of it!!! That's what I call ''Sharing'' as a friend!! And would advise Ron to respect the speed limit in the future, because it is there for a reason!

    I am totally against speeding behaviour, especially in 30 and 40 mph areas

    Thunderbird
    Last edited by Thunderbird; 12-04-2007 at 1:37 PM.
    • emily jackson
    • By emily jackson 14th Apr 07, 7:59 PM
    • 1,652 Posts
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    emily jackson
    • #3
    • 14th Apr 07, 7:59 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Apr 07, 7:59 PM
    i wonder if ron was speeding because they were running late or because he always drives too fast?
    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 17th Apr 07, 4:04 PM
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    MSE Martin
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 07, 4:04 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 07, 4:04 PM
    Just a quick note - i've tweaked the dilemma slightly - so the two posters above were reading something slightly different
    Last edited by MSE Martin; 17-04-2007 at 8:20 PM.
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.

    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.

    Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
    • 123xyz
    • By 123xyz 17th Apr 07, 10:39 PM
    • 398 Posts
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    123xyz
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 07, 10:39 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 07, 10:39 PM
    Yes, Harry should pay the fine. If he was late, he was encouraging Ron to speed so it is his fault. Perhaps he should contribute to Ron's increased insurance premiums too!
    Just off the border of your waking mind, there lies another time ....
    • Pound
    • By Pound 17th Apr 07, 10:49 PM
    • 2,669 Posts
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    Pound
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 07, 10:49 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 07, 10:49 PM
    Maybe Ron could use the 'doing Harry a favour' excuse with the police, see what they make of it. :rolleyes:

  • lellie
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 07, 11:03 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 07, 11:03 PM
    I think harry should pay - Ron will already be taking the rap with the 3 penalty points - so they should split the problem between them.
  • machtzu
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 07, 11:21 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 07, 11:21 PM
    Yes, its only £60 anyway. Also if possible Harry should try to take the points too, think Quantum States if he wasn't doing a favour he wouldn't have got caught.
    JB MIEEE MIET
    • irishwench69
    • By irishwench69 17th Apr 07, 11:27 PM
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    irishwench69
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 07, 11:27 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 07, 11:27 PM
    I think harry should pay - Ron will already be taking the rap with the 3 penalty points - so they should split the problem between them.
    Originally posted by lellie
    Me too - sounds about right

    IW x
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    • Thunderbird
    • By Thunderbird 17th Apr 07, 11:56 PM
    • 612 Posts
    • 265 Thanks
    Thunderbird
    After eading the ''tweaked'' version, The answer is definately he should pay.
  • pbarclay
    The problem with speeding fines these days is that the first £60 is only the start of it. Getting 3 points on his license will increase Ron's insurance premium each year by around £50 for the next 5 years, if my experience is anything to go by after one flash in October 2003.

    In the good old days when few people received SP30s, my insurance company was more than happy to ignore the first 3 or even 6 points but these days they are as keen to apply punitive taxes as Gordon Brown.

    I agree that if Harry urges Ron to drive above the speed limit to make up for his lie in bed, he is morally obliged to take responsibility of the consequences of his action. In the same way, if Ron's car runs out of fuel on the way to the airport and Harry misses his flight, Ron has a moral obligation to contribute to Harry's next flight
  • machtzu
    The problem with speeding fines these days is that the first £60 is only the start of it. Getting 3 points on his license will increase Ron's insurance premium each year by around £50 for the next 5 years, if my experience is anything to go by after one flash in October 2003.

    In the good old days when few people received SP30s, my insurance company was more than happy to ignore the first 3 or even 6 points but these days they are as keen to apply punitive taxes as Gordon Brown.
    Originally posted by pbarclay
    If your only 3rd party one option is not to tell them because they are not able to remove their liability to the 3rd party even if you lie on your insurance form if the accident occurs before they find out, (I wouldn't recommend this option, mainly because its fraud, but just throwing it out there like Microsoft and Windows Vista)
    JB MIEEE MIET
  • dwynnehugh
    Should Harry pay Ron's speeding fine?
    Maybe Ron could use the 'doing Harry a favour' excuse with the police, see what they make of it. :rolleyes:
    Originally posted by Pound
    Hope springs eternal!!
  • dwynnehugh
    Yes, its only £60 anyway. Also if possible Harry should try to take the points too, think Quantum States if he wasn't doing a favour he wouldn't have got caught.
    Originally posted by machtzu
    Ever heard of the serious offence of Attempting to or Peverting the Course of Justice?

    Definitely cost you more than £60!!
  • machtzu
    Ever heard of the serious offence of Attempting to or Peverting the Course of Justice?

    Definitely cost you more than £60!!
    Originally posted by dwynnehugh
    Quite, carries a tariff of 5 years now doesn't it?
    JB MIEEE MIET
    • grayme-m
    • By grayme-m 18th Apr 07, 6:40 AM
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    grayme-m
    The problem with speeding fines these days is that the first £60 is only the start of it. Getting 3 points on his license will increase Ron's insurance premium each year by around £50 for the next 5 years, if my experience is anything to go by after one flash in October 2003.

    In the good old days when few people received SP30s, my insurance company was more than happy to ignore the first 3 or even 6 points but these days they are as keen to apply punitive taxes as Gordon Brown.

    I agree that if Harry urges Ron to drive above the speed limit to make up for his lie in bed, he is morally obliged to take responsibility of the consequences of his action. In the same way, if Ron's car runs out of fuel on the way to the airport and Harry misses his flight, Ron has a moral obligation to contribute to Harry's next flight
    Originally posted by pbarclay
    Maybe Harry should say he was driving and hence he gets the points and costs (which if he was asking Ron specially to speed, indirectly he was)?

    I doubt the law really cares who it catches, as long as it gets its £60.....
    Toyota - 'Always a better way', avoid buying Toyota.
  • ads
    Just go halves on the cost. Can't do anything about the points.
    something missing
    • veruccasalt
    • By veruccasalt 18th Apr 07, 8:06 AM
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    veruccasalt
    They should definitely get Hermione to pay.
    • MarkyMarkD
    • By MarkyMarkD 18th Apr 07, 8:06 AM
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    MarkyMarkD
    If your only 3rd party one option is not to tell them because they are not able to remove their liability to the 3rd party even if you lie on your insurance form if the accident occurs before they find out, (I wouldn't recommend this option, mainly because its fraud, but just throwing it out there like Microsoft and Windows Vista)
    Originally posted by machtzu
    Whilst your insurer has to provide third party cover even if you've deceived them, they are then able to recover any outlay from you - so it's just as if you aren't insured EXCEPT that you won't get prosecuted for driving without insurance. Not a good idea.
    • sandieb
    • By sandieb 18th Apr 07, 8:30 AM
    • 726 Posts
    • 615 Thanks
    sandieb
    Harry most definitely should pay. A friendship is at stake here.
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