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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Rose
    PPI Reclaiming Discussion Part 5
    • #1
    • 28th Feb 12, 4:40 PM
    PPI Reclaiming Discussion Part 5 28th Feb 12 at 4:40 PM



    Hi all, this thread is for discussing the
    PPI Reclaiming
    article.

    This is Part 5 of the discussion, as the last one was so long (read parts one, two, three and four). To discuss or ask a question about this article, click 'post reply'.

    To read about non FOS claims read this thread.
    Report and read success stories in this thread
    .

    Please remember:

    We're often quite laid back about discussion threads as this is a community after all.

    I'm afraid in the case of the PPI Reclaiming thread we're really going to have to ask you to keep the discussion on topic though, so that people can find the relevant information quickly and easily.

    If you do start making like-minded friends on here and would like to carry on chatting about what you did at the weekend/what you ate for dinner etc, that's fine, but the best way to do that is to go to our local pub the MoneySavers Arms where anything and everything is chatted about, start a thread there, then pop a link in here and suggest you all head over to there to chat.

    Thanks,

    MSE Rose
Page 508
    • ijp
    • By ijp 7th Nov 18, 9:09 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ijp
    Fobbed off!
    I've sent off around 20 PPI claims using MSE online forms, and the majority of the providers have said I have to give them the original account number, proof in writing, original contracts or paperwork. All my claims relate to accounts, credit cards & mortgages all closed before 2008, so they say they no longer have my details, and I've not kept old paperwork, also details are no longer on my credit report as more than 7 years ago. My original thought was to just let it go, but it feels like the banks are hiding behind this excuse, they must have archive systems, but don't know what to do now - any suggestions?
    • zx81
    • By zx81 7th Nov 18, 9:15 AM
    • 19,338 Posts
    • 20,652 Thanks
    zx81
    It doesn't sound as is there is any fobbery.

    Between you and the lender, only one of you is permitted to keep the data as long as you want - and it isn't the lender.

    Either do a SAR if you don't believe them, or accept that you don't have any evidence.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 7th Nov 18, 9:23 AM
    • 95,754 Posts
    • 63,452 Thanks
    dunstonh
    I've sent off around 20 PPI claims using MSE online forms, and the majority of the providers have said I have to give them the original account number, proof in writing, original contracts or paperwork. All my claims relate to accounts, credit cards & mortgages all closed before 2008, so they say they no longer have my details, and I've not kept old paperwork, also details are no longer on my credit report as more than 7 years ago. My original thought was to just let it go, but it feels like the banks are hiding behind this excuse, they must have archive systems, but don't know what to do now - any suggestions?
    Originally posted by ijp
    Why are you not using your own records to find out these things?
    or have you destroyed the records as they were no longer required?

    Since when is complying with the law an excuse?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 7th Nov 18, 10:03 AM
    • 22,465 Posts
    • 12,019 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    My original thought was to just let it go, but it feels like the banks are hiding behind this excuse, they must have archive systems,
    Originally posted by ijp
    Banks and other financial institutions are not obliged to keep records of old accounts long closed, in fact what generally happens is that they are deleted after six years.

    If you don't believe that they have complied with data protection laws, then you could send them all Subject Access Request (SAR) letters which will compel them to send you everything they have kept on file for you. If, as you should fully expect, the SARs return no relevant information, then only you will be able to provide the account details required to make a PPI complaint.

    Do realise also that there is no guarantee that the complaints in which the Banks have found records will be successful. It's not somehow wrong to have insurance and in order for you to obtain a refund you must show that the policies were mis-sold to you.
    • Precious44
    • By Precious44 10th Nov 18, 12:56 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Precious44
    My Neice has a Pure Protection Policy which we think is a PPI she was sold this with a mortgage loan alongside a critical illness policy and pure life cover policy, she was not informed about commission from the Building Soc Advisor, does she have a case to recaim she took all this out in 2012
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 10th Nov 18, 5:31 PM
    • 5,940 Posts
    • 3,593 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    My Neice has a Pure Protection Policy which we think is a PPI she was sold this with a mortgage loan alongside a critical illness policy and pure life cover policy, she was not informed about commission from the Building Soc Advisor, does she have a case to recaim she took all this out in 2012
    Originally posted by Precious44

    Sold in 2012 she'll have zero chance of getting anywhere, the paperwork will be watertight proving she was told about it and wanted it. If the advisor worked for the building society they almost certainly won't be on commission, if it was an independent advisor they are allowed to get commission for sales of insurance as it pays their bills - you can avoid it by paying for the advice directly.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 11th Nov 18, 12:43 AM
    • 95,754 Posts
    • 63,452 Thanks
    dunstonh
    My Neice has a Pure Protection Policy which we think is a PPI she was sold this with a mortgage loan alongside a critical illness policy and pure life cover policy, she was not informed about commission from the Building Soc Advisor, does she have a case to recaim she took all this out in 2012
    Originally posted by Precious44
    Most banks and building societies stopped retailing PPI by then. Although some did continue with just MPPI. One of two types of PPI you can still buy today.

    Why do you think she may have a case to complain as you havent mentioned anything in your post?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • stuart_b
    • By stuart_b 11th Nov 18, 12:42 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    stuart_b
    My Neice has a Pure Protection Policy which we think is a PPI she was sold this with a mortgage loan alongside a critical illness policy and pure life cover policy, she was not informed about commission from the Building Soc Advisor, does she have a case to recaim she took all this out in 2012
    Originally posted by Precious44
    It sounds like you're focusing on whether there was a high level of commission rather than the policy being mis-sold per se. If that's the case, I would recommend making a complaint.

    Although there will be many who will argue that you should not complain without having a basis for a complaint, the FCA's stance on high commission level complaints makes this unavoidable.

    The FCA stopped short of making the industry contact consumers where they knew that commission levels had probably led to an unfair contract (other than in some limited cases), but once you complain they do have to investigate this as well even if you don't mention it.

    I don't think it's helpful for the system to be overloaded by a lot of spurious complaints, but because of the above and the fact that commission levels are not routinely disclosed (even after a complaint), consumers are actually left with no choice.

    Stuart
    • CFH5
    • By CFH5 11th Nov 18, 2:40 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    CFH5
    Suppied all info - Twice - 6 months ago
    Banks and other financial institutions are not obliged to keep records of old accounts long closed, in fact what generally happens is that they are deleted after six years.

    If you don't believe that they have complied with data protection laws, then you could send them all Subject Access Request (SAR) letters which will compel them to send you everything they have kept on file for you. If, as you should fully expect, the SARs return no relevant information, then only you will be able to provide the account details required to make a PPI complaint.

    Do realise also that there is no guarantee that the complaints in which the Banks have found records will be successful. It's not somehow wrong to have insurance and in order for you to obtain a refund you must show that the policies were mis-sold to you.
    Originally posted by Moneyineptitude

    Id be grateful if you could shed light on this. I submitted a PPI claim for 2 loans with Black Horse back in July 2018. Thankfully I had all my paperwork so I forwarded all of this in addition to the claim form. After no reply or around 4-5 weeks I followed it up by a phone call as they dont reply to any e-mails. Anyway I was told there was a huge backlog and that there was a letter on the way stating that they werent going to meet the 8 week timeframe and it would take another 8 weeks. When I asked why, I was bizarrely told that lots of people had mistakenly understood the PPI cut off to be August 2018 and not 2019 and they were inundated with claims. Found this a bit hard to believe and either way it should not have affected my claim if they were being done in order of reciept. Fast forward to October 26th when I recieve a call to advise me that my claim was now being dealt with. Person on phone essentially asked me the entire questionnaire again which I was happy to do as this was to all intents and purposes, a very stright-forward claim. Said they would be back in touch within a few days as Nov 16th was their decision date deadline. No contact so I called and an adviser stated that another 8 week letter was being prepared for issue as my case had still not been resolved. I asked to speak with the person who called me but no reply. Have asked 3 times now. This is outrageous as I have been very patient throughout but 1. Can they do this? and 2. Do I have any recourse? Im reluctant to go to Ombudsman as I hear this will take even longer but surely this company cannot treat customers like this? Sorry if this was lenghty but I needed to get the picture across.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 11th Nov 18, 3:25 PM
    • 95,754 Posts
    • 63,452 Thanks
    dunstonh
    1. Can they do this?
    yes

    2. Do I have any recourse?
    No. If they uphold your complaint, you get extra interest. If your complaint is rejected then you are no worse off.

    Im reluctant to go to Ombudsman as I hear this will take even longer but surely this company cannot treat customers like this?
    They can. Maybe the records are not easily available. Maybe your complaint is not as nailed on as you think. Maybe they havent worked out if they have liability yet (a lot of Black Horse loans were done through car dealers or brokers).
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 11th Nov 18, 5:37 PM
    • 5,940 Posts
    • 3,593 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    It sounds like you're focusing on whether there was a high level of commission rather than the policy being mis-sold per se. If that's the case, I would recommend making a complaint.

    Although there will be many who will argue that you should not complain without having a basis for a complaint, the FCA's stance on high commission level complaints makes this unavoidable.

    The FCA stopped short of making the industry contact consumers where they knew that commission levels had probably led to an unfair contract (other than in some limited cases), but once you complain they do have to investigate this as well even if you don't mention it.

    I don't think it's helpful for the system to be overloaded by a lot of spurious complaints, but because of the above and the fact that commission levels are not routinely disclosed (even after a complaint), consumers are actually left with no choice.

    Stuart
    Originally posted by stuart_b

    The level of commission is irrelevant if it was declared and agreed that the broker would do the work for free (else how do they earn a living?). In 2012 the sale would cover all the bases, you won't get a Plevin style case for that one
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 11th Nov 18, 5:57 PM
    • 95,754 Posts
    • 63,452 Thanks
    dunstonh
    The level of commission is irrelevant if it was declared and agreed that the broker would do the work for free (else how do they earn a living?). In 2012 the sale would cover all the bases, you won't get a Plevin style case for that one
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    If a broker was used then you forget plevin. regular premium MPPI via brokers wouldnt exceed the tipping point. Even banks only just exceeds the tipping point and that is due to profitshare.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • stuart_b
    • By stuart_b 13th Nov 18, 4:36 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    stuart_b
    This is outrageous as I have been very patient throughout but 1. Can they do this? and 2. Do I have any recourse? Im reluctant to go to Ombudsman as I hear this will take even longer but surely this company cannot treat customers like this? Sorry if this was lenghty but I needed to get the picture across.
    Originally posted by CFH5
    Answers above are correct. FOS unlikely to get you anywhere at the moment. Difficult to speculate on the cause of the delay.

    If you go to the FOS they will just ask BH for case details and then likely give them 8 weeks to respond anyway. Perhaps best to keep the FOS in reserve in case BH reject your complaint - then you can go there armed with more information. They are not much use in speeding up a slow lender process. But if BH stop responding then by all means go to the FOS.

    If it was a loan from a dealer or some sort you and before 2005 you probably won't be able to go to the FOS anyway.

    I'd advise any further comms involving case information to be in writing and not on the 'phone - a) you need to understand that the banks are not primarily trying to help you and b) you need to have a record of these things.

    Regards
    Stuart
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