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  • FIRST POST
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 2nd Dec 11, 12:15 AM
    • 405Posts
    • 40Thanks
    BartyBoy
    How pathetic and useless can PayPal really be, honestly??
    • #1
    • 2nd Dec 11, 12:15 AM
    How pathetic and useless can PayPal really be, honestly?? 2nd Dec 11 at 12:15 AM
    Further to the other thread that I posted here about an unpleasant experience with a buyer who uses PayPal to force me to issue her a full refund. Now I have a proper 'head to head' battle with PayPal, the experience is even worse.

    Cut the long story short, I will just point out the stupid and hopeless things that PayPal has done to me here.

    1. Soon after I received the returned item from my buyer, I discovered the item was damaged and filthy, so I contacted PayPal to raise the issues. PayPal asked me to take the damaged item to a local police station and get a police officer to write a report of what damage was found on the item. The officer needed to use the station's letterhead for the report and sign it, so that PayPal can see the description of the damage is genuine.

    Do PayPal really think it is part of the police's job to write down damage descriptions for a returned item?? This suggestion from PayPal makes no sense or whatsoever. I did visit a police station at one point, and the police officer basically said it was a civil matter, nothing to do with the police. I knew that's what I was going to get from the police, flipping stupid PayPal!

    2. I told PayPal I couldn't get a police officer to give me a report of the damage on my item, so PayPal decided to tell me to ring 101 from my home phone, so that I could speak to a regional police call centre to ask for a crime number???

    Since when PayPal believe a returned damaged item is a crime?? I started to think people who work for PayPal have no brain at all!!! Anyway, to keep PayPal satisfied, I rang 101 from my home phone, and the person answered my call said he could not issue me a crime number. All I could get from the call centre was an incident number. I was extremely furious after the phone call. I sent an email to PayPal with the details of which police station I went to, who I spoke to and the only incident number.

    3. 4 days later, I received another email from PayPal telling me to report the matter to the police and supplying PayPal a crime/incident number.

    I sent a stroppy email to PayPal saying I have already told them I went to a police station and submitted an incident number days ago. I also told PayPal on the email that if they did not have a system to record what has received from me, they better go and upgrade their computer system now. That email from PayPal really wind me up!

    4. PayPal emailed me a claim form yesterday asking me to complete the form and return it back to them in 3 days. At the bottom of the form, it says 'sign here'. But within the email, there is no indication to say how to return the form back to PayPal, especially when they asked me to sign the form. I emailed PayPal to ask the question, but I have no reply at all, so I thought I could just fill in the form and email it back to complaint-response@paypal.com. 24 hours after I emailed the form, I received a reply from PayPal saying they do not accept the form via email. The form has to be signed, either fax to PayPal or upload it to my PayPal account.

    I just felt I really have enough here, so I wrote them a letter to say if the form has to be faxed back, perhaps it should have mentioned on the email in the beginning. Furthermore, no email related to the form from PayPal indicates their fax number. So they only accept the form signed and faxed back to them, but they don't give me the fax number. The service is utterly poo of the poo!!

    Do PayPal really know what they are doing there? How pathetic and useless can they really be??

    I just can't wait to see what PayPal is going to do to me next...
Page 1
  • Oliver14
    • #2
    • 2nd Dec 11, 3:55 AM
    • #2
    • 2nd Dec 11, 3:55 AM
    Do you expect paypal to come around and inspect the jumper then? All they have is your word that the jumper is not in the same condition. I'm afraid they aren't psychic. The system may not be perfect but what system is. Millions of transactions go on daily with no problem.

    No system is perfect but rightfully paypals system gives buyers confidence and without buyers it really wouldn't matter what you had to sell.
    'The More I know about people the Better I like my Dog'
    Samuel Clemens
    • burnlyf
    • By burnlyf 2nd Dec 11, 4:42 AM
    • 69 Posts
    • 275 Thanks
    burnlyf
    • #3
    • 2nd Dec 11, 4:42 AM
    • #3
    • 2nd Dec 11, 4:42 AM
    Do you expect paypal to come around and inspect the jumper then? All they have is your word that the jumper is not in the same condition. I'm afraid they aren't psychic. The system may not be perfect but what system is. Millions of transactions go on daily with no problem.

    No system is perfect but rightfully paypals system gives buyers confidence and without buyers it really wouldn't matter what you had to sell.
    Originally posted by Oliver14
    Where did OP say it was a jumper?
    • burnleymik
    • By burnleymik 2nd Dec 11, 5:34 AM
    • 1,253 Posts
    • 3,421 Thanks
    burnleymik
    • #4
    • 2nd Dec 11, 5:34 AM
    • #4
    • 2nd Dec 11, 5:34 AM
    Where did OP say it was a jumper?
    by burnlyf

    Further to the other thread that I posted here about an unpleasant experience with a buyer who uses PayPal to force me to issue her a full refund. Now I have a proper 'head to head' battle with PayPal, the experience is even worse.
    Originally posted by BartyBoy

    See above.
    • Laz123
    • By Laz123 2nd Dec 11, 8:52 AM
    • 1,498 Posts
    • 918 Thanks
    Laz123
    • #5
    • 2nd Dec 11, 8:52 AM
    • #5
    • 2nd Dec 11, 8:52 AM
    Yes they are a bit inefficient sometimes. I bought an item via Ebay amd Paypal but when it came to pay the payment link wouldn't allow me to pay for no good reason. I tried for two days on different pc's and troubleshooting and all they said was to use an alternative payment method. I paid by cheque in the end. Their customer service is more than useless.
    There's no present. There's only the immediate future and the recent past.
    George Carlin
    • Sooler
    • By Sooler 2nd Dec 11, 11:09 AM
    • 2,898 Posts
    • 2,107 Thanks
    Sooler
    • #6
    • 2nd Dec 11, 11:09 AM
    • #6
    • 2nd Dec 11, 11:09 AM
    Do you expect paypal to come around and inspect the jumper then?
    Originally posted by Oliver14
    I would, if they require proof, how dare they waste police time - which we pay for. We don't fund the police to provide a service to paypal.
    All they have is your word that the jumper is not in the same condition. I'm afraid they aren't psychic.
    Originally posted by Oliver14
    So they should have their own system for verifying, not abusing the police service.
    The system may not be perfect but what system is. Millions of transactions go on daily with no problem.
    Originally posted by Oliver14
    That's of no relavance for issues that do have problems.
    • burnlyf
    • By burnlyf 2nd Dec 11, 1:52 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 275 Thanks
    burnlyf
    • #7
    • 2nd Dec 11, 1:52 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Dec 11, 1:52 PM
    See above.
    Originally posted by burnleymik
    The other thread was about a dehumidifier...
    • Crazy Jamie
    • By Crazy Jamie 2nd Dec 11, 2:43 PM
    • 2,153 Posts
    • 2,075 Thanks
    Crazy Jamie
    • #8
    • 2nd Dec 11, 2:43 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Dec 11, 2:43 PM
    All they have is your word that the jumper is not in the same condition.
    Originally posted by Oliver14
    Which, coincidentally, is all the police would have as well. Few systems are perfect, but I cannot see any justification for PayPal wanting aggrieved customers to report matters to the police where it is quite clear that no criminal offence has been committed.
    "MIND IF I USE YOUR PHONE? IF WORD GETS OUT THAT
    I'M MISSING FIVE HUNDRED GIRLS WILL KILL THEMSELVES."
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 4th Dec 11, 3:37 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 11, 3:37 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 11, 3:37 PM
    hi there, thank you all so much for your comment, just thought to give a quick update about my case here...

    when the 'witch' sent me a payment of 115.00 for a dehumidifier on 24 october 2011, PayPal took 4.11 off from me for the handling fee, which means i only received 110.89 from PayPal for the transaction. And now PayPal has given a full refund of 115.00 to the 'Witch' but PayPal also asks me to pay that 4.11 fee, i really wanted to know how it works??

    so after all, the 'witch' used my item for free for three weeks, then the item is returned back to me with damage and dirt, and i still need to pay PayPal 4.11 out of my own pocket. have i missed something here??
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 4th Dec 11, 3:52 PM
    • 10,424 Posts
    • 11,761 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    The original paypal fee of 4.11 should be returned once the refund has been issued to your buyer.
    It should be done automatically but if it doesn't then you will have to call or e-mail paypal to remind them about it.
  • goodz
    hi there, thank you all so much for your comment, just thought to give a quick update about my case here...

    when the 'witch' sent me a payment of 115.00 for a dehumidifier on 24 october 2011, PayPal took 4.11 off from me for the handling fee, which means i only received 110.89 from PayPal for the transaction. And now PayPal has given a full refund of 115.00 to the 'Witch' but PayPal also asks me to pay that 4.11 fee, i really wanted to know how it works??

    so after all, the 'witch' used my item for free for three weeks, then the item is returned back to me with damage and dirt, and i still need to pay PayPal 4.11 out of my own pocket. have i missed something here??
    Originally posted by BartyBoy
    Oh, crikey, the soap opera continues. You poor sod. Full marks to you for hanging on in there.

    Sometimes I went all the way with the numpties and rseholes robbing me. And sorted them out good and proper. And gave them what for. Out of about 200 battles I probably won about 30 or 40 of them, after a ding dong. After pushing their silly little heads back under the water where they belong. But sometimes, mostly, I cut my losses and moved on to greener pastures.

    You're good at writing here about this, have you considered writing it up some more and publishing it as an ebook. Maybe. A tale of our times. Might be worth considering. Could be a way of salvaging something out of the debacle. Might help some other people as well.

    Anyway, once again, good luck mate, keep us posted, some of us are on your side in this and rooting for you.
    Last edited by goodz; 04-12-2011 at 5:31 PM.
  • CapJ
    I think there are some over reactions going on here. If an item has been returned and a refund asked for on the basis at least partly that it wasn't used, and it has been used then that could be fraud (customer is lying to obtain money). In that case it would indeed be a criminal offence. It is not therefore unreasonable to ask for a crime number.

    OP clearly if you are going to the police station with the attitude that this isn't a crime they aren't going to help. You need to try a little bit more strongly.

    In any case Paypal are clearly open to you trying another way of solving the problem by describing it signing and returning. They have given you two ways of returning this information to them. Did you ask for the fax number? Did you try to upload it?

    From what you are saying the customer is acting atrociously but that isn't Paypal's fault. You need to work with them here, as well as accept that their system is tilted towards the purchaser - this helps give people confidence to send money on them.
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 4th Dec 11, 9:07 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    The original paypal fee of 4.11 should be returned once the refund has been issued to your buyer.
    It should be done automatically but if it doesn't then you will have to call or e-mail paypal to remind them about it.
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    hi there, thank you for your comment...

    i phoned PayPal's claim team this afternoon to query this 4.11 fee. this agent called judith told me this fee was used as an admin fee for PayPal to 'look into' and 'settle' the dispute. i told judith i have never agreed and authorised the full refund to this 'witch', so why would PayPal charge me 4.11 as an admin fee?

    it sounds like an excuse to rob me to be honest.
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 4th Dec 11, 9:31 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    ...From what you are saying the customer is acting atrociously but that isn't Paypal's fault. You need to work with them here, as well as accept that their system is tilted towards the purchaser - this helps give people confidence to send money on them.
    Originally posted by CapJ
    hi there, thank you for your comment...

    unfortunately i have no faith on PayPal anymore and at all... despite the fact that they have pointed me to the police to seek for legal advice and action, i think that is just pathetic and unbelievable. without a doubt, what i have got here is a civil case, it would be far much better if PayPal could stay out of it and let the buyer and me to resolve the problem via a small claim court instead.

    the buyer used my item then returned it back to me with damage and dirt, how can the police see this as a crime? i am not a big fan of the police but in this occasion i do feel that PayPal is taking the 'mickey' out of me.

    i have been battling with PayPal every day since the 'witch' filed a dispute against me on 18 November 2011. if i could disclose my PayPal account here, you will be surprised to see how many PayPal agents who i have spoken to on the phone here. sometimes, it's not just about the money, but the principle. i have done nothing wrong here, why should i be treated like a guilty party, giving a full refund to the 'witch' and accepting a used damaged filthy item?

    furthermore, because of the drama of my PayPal account, it has caused two other transactions of mine failed to complete. i was aware of that and i contacted the PayPal's account team asap to resolve those two failed transactions. i put extra money in to my PayPal account and instructed PayPal to pay my sellers immediately. PayPal has kept my money since 25 November 2011 and never released the money to my sellers. to me, i just don't know what the 'f' is wrong with PayPal. anyway in the end, one of my sellers had to write to PayPal to ask them to cancel the transaction, he obviously had waited more than enough for his money. i transferred him the money via bank transfer instead.

    how on earth can a money transfer company act and behave like this? i have just given up hope on PayPal. some of their staff are even rude and aggressive too. those staff must have forgot they only work for PayPal, they don't own PayPal.
    • Crazy Jamie
    • By Crazy Jamie 5th Dec 11, 5:28 PM
    • 2,153 Posts
    • 2,075 Thanks
    Crazy Jamie
    I think there are some over reactions going on here. If an item has been returned and a refund asked for on the basis at least partly that it wasn't used, and it has been used then that could be fraud (customer is lying to obtain money). In that case it would indeed be a criminal offence. It is not therefore unreasonable to ask for a crime number.
    Originally posted by CapJ
    In a situation where a civil dispute certainly does arise and the resolution of such a dispute would be the priority for all concerned, it is unreasonable to expect a customer to report the matter to the police. Especially when any allegation of fraud would be based on speculation and not on any sort of direct evidence. Expecting the police to take time to inspect and document damage to the item before confirming the same in writing to PayPal is even more unreasonable. It shows a complete detachment from reality by what is a well regarded international company.
    "MIND IF I USE YOUR PHONE? IF WORD GETS OUT THAT
    I'M MISSING FIVE HUNDRED GIRLS WILL KILL THEMSELVES."
    • Azari
    • By Azari 5th Dec 11, 6:05 PM
    • 3,941 Posts
    • 6,164 Thanks
    Azari
    It shows a complete detachment from reality by what is a well regarded international company.
    Originally posted by Crazy Jamie
    "well regarded international company"?

    I thought this thread was about paypal.
    There are two types of people in the world: Those that can extrapolate information.
    • Crazy Jamie
    • By Crazy Jamie 5th Dec 11, 6:46 PM
    • 2,153 Posts
    • 2,075 Thanks
    Crazy Jamie
    "well regarded international company"?

    I thought this thread was about paypal.
    Originally posted by Azari
    Yeah, I knew that phrasing would draw a comment like that. You get my point.
    "MIND IF I USE YOUR PHONE? IF WORD GETS OUT THAT
    I'M MISSING FIVE HUNDRED GIRLS WILL KILL THEMSELVES."
  • faerie_girl
    Do you still have the 'buyers' address? Take them to the small claims
  • CapJ
    In a situation where a civil dispute certainly does arise and the resolution of such a dispute would be the priority for all concerned, it is unreasonable to expect a customer to report the matter to the police.
    Originally posted by Crazy Jamie
    It is not unreasonable to report a potential crime to the police. If the OP believes that the customer has lied in order to obtain money, or obtained a service (the loan of the "jumper" / item or whatever it was) by deception then indeed they have reason to believe that a fraud has been committed.

    Since we are forbidden by law to take the law into our own hands then it is completely reasonable to report this to police who are fully empowered to investigate.

    That the police or others claim this is a civil dispute does not change their responsibility in dealing with the criminal element of the dispute.

    In that respect it is totally reasonable in theory for Paypal to refer the OP to the police.
    Especially when any allegation of fraud would be based on speculation and not on any sort of direct evidence.
    Originally posted by Crazy Jamie
    It is not based on speculation. There is an eyewitness (the victim).

    Expecting the police to take time to inspect and document damage to the item before confirming the same in writing to PayPal is even more unreasonable. It shows a complete detachment from reality by what is a well regarded international company.
    What I don't know is what experience Paypal has of this. If they have experience of police being cooperative about this it is certainly reasonable in practice to do this. If on the other hand the police decline to do even a preliminary investigation every single time a Paypal "seller" approaches them, then Paypal's actions aren't very helpful. Do you know or is your statement speculation?
    • Crazy Jamie
    • By Crazy Jamie 5th Dec 11, 11:26 PM
    • 2,153 Posts
    • 2,075 Thanks
    Crazy Jamie
    You say yourself that the actions are reasonable 'in theory'. Which is the whole problem with your stance; this isn't 'theory', this is a practical situation. Hundreds of civil matters are resolved in Court every day where one party 'might' have lied, and therefore 'might' have committed fraud. But any accusation of fraud would be unjustified in the vast majority of cases, because there is no direct evidence. The same is true here. The OP has witnessed no fraud, and can only provide speculation. It simply does not warrant police involvement. That will be true of the vast, vast majority of PayPal disputed cases. Which is why requesting that disputes be referred to the police, as a matter of course, is wholly unreasonable.
    "MIND IF I USE YOUR PHONE? IF WORD GETS OUT THAT
    I'M MISSING FIVE HUNDRED GIRLS WILL KILL THEMSELVES."
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