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  • FIRST POST
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 23rd Nov 11, 9:23 PM
    • 405Posts
    • 40Thanks
    BartyBoy
    45 days rental FREE offer by PayPal
    • #1
    • 23rd Nov 11, 9:23 PM
    45 days rental FREE offer by PayPal 23rd Nov 11 at 9:23 PM
    I sold a dehumidifier to a woman on 24 Oct 2011. She transferred me the money via PayPal. She received the dehumidifier on Friday 28 Oct 2011. Three weeks later, I received a phone call from this woman out of the blue. She claimed the dehumidifier did not have an instruction manual and was not working. She demanded a full refund. I told her she has had the item for three weeks, it did not make sense to me for her calling me now to report the item was not working. I told her I would not take the item back and would not issue her a refund. She then said she would report me to PayPal.

    She filed a dispute against me on PayPal and PayPal has frozen the money that she sent me three weeks ago. I responded to PayPal that the buyer has had the item for three weeks, she used it for a home improvement project and now she has finished using the dehumidifier, she wants to send it back to me for a full refund. I don’t run a hire shop here.

    I supplied some evidence to PayPal to support my story yesterday and last night when I logged on to PayPal, I discovered PayPal has made a decision that PayPal told the buyer I would agree to issue a full refund after she returns the item back to me. I am absolutely furious with what PayPal has done here. I sent several online messages to PayPal saying I have never agreed to accept the return of the item and a refund to the buyer. PayPal just do what they feel like, it is utterly disgraceful!

    I spent (or shall I say ‘wasted’) half an hour on the phone with PayPal. Within the 30 mins, I managed to get through to the Claim team and I asked the agent/advisor to put me through to a manager/supervisor. Then this woman called Amy picked up my call, the first thing she said to me was, ‘why can’t you discuss the claim with the agent?’ I thought what a friendly attitude – NOT!!

    I told her I needed to speak to someone in higher level because PayPal has made a final decision about my claim. I asked her if she was the person to make the decision. She replied it was someone else in the back office. I asked her if I could speak to them, she said no.

    Anyway, I tried to remain calm while I was going through my story with Amy, but Amy had such a disgusting attitude that everything that I said to her she just argued against it. For example, I told her the buyer has had the item for 3 weeks, therefore she must have used it. Then Amy said she bought something from eBay before and she did not use it until sometimes later. At that moment I just knew she was totally useless and unhelpful. She also added that PayPal has made the final decision to my case and that will stand as it is no matter how I try or argue here.

    I asked Amy what I needed to do if I would like to make a complaint against PayPal. She told me to write to the PayPal HQ in Luxembourg, that is just a dirty trick. How can I make a complaint to someone who is thousands miles away from England? Amy said PayPal don’t have a UK office but a UK call centre only, how convenient is that??

    Anyway, cut the long story short, I phoned FOS to seek for advice here. A gentleman from FOS took my details and said he would contact PayPal for me, then we should take it from there to see what PayPal is willing to do with my case. I told FOS that all I want is not to accept the item back from the buyer and not to issue her a full refund, just as simple as that…

    At this minute, I have cancelled all my credit cards which are registered with PayPal. And I told my bank not to authorise any transactions to PayPal too.


    45 DAYS RENTAL FREE OFFER by PayPal
    Send your money now and you will get a FULL REFUND later


    So next time when you have found something that you want to use for 45 days for free, make sure you use PayPal – an online money transfer company that don't give a 'f' about fair trade – utterly useless, disgraceful and a waste of space!
Page 1
  • texranger
    • #2
    • 23rd Nov 11, 11:01 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd Nov 11, 11:01 PM
    How do you know its not faulty?

    How would you feel if you purchased a tv from Tesco and 3 weeks down the live in failed so you contacted tesco and their reply was sorry you have had it 3 weeks and used it, we dont offer a rental service. you signed up to paypal you accepted their policies which a buyer has 45 days to lodge a claim.

    I am afraid you will lose this one , the buyer will have to return it to you and you will have to refund.
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 24th Nov 11, 12:37 AM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    • #3
    • 24th Nov 11, 12:37 AM
    • #3
    • 24th Nov 11, 12:37 AM
    I know it is not faulty because this woman told me she needed the dehumidifier for a home improvement project urgently. She demanded me to post her the item for next day before 12 delivery but she was not willing to pay the extra fee for the morning delivery. When the item was delivered to her, it was accepted and signed by one of her workmen. Since then until last friday, I heard nothing from her to say the item was not working, but all the sudden out of the blue she phoned me to say the item was not working (yes, she said it was not working, but not it has stopped working), so basically she was telling me the dehumidifier has never been working since she/her workman received it 3 weeks ago. How does it work?

    (She also claims there is no instruction manual, surely it doesn't take her 3 weeks to discover there is no instruction manual if she is telling the truth)

    Let me tell you this... I bought my little brother a brand new 48" plasma telly from Dixons some years ago. The telly broke down in two weeks, I contacted Dixons to report the problem, they told me to contact the manufacturer instead. The comment they gave me was they only acted as a reseller, if there was anything wrong with the item, I should go back to the manufacturer. The guarantee was given by the manufacturer, not by the reseller. Same as my case, the dehumidifier is guaranteed by the manufacturer, not me. Besides, can you imagine how much the retail prices can be if resellers need to do the manufacturers' job?

    The dehumidifier was a manufacturer' refurbished item. It was checked and tested by a qualified technician before it was sold to me. I have never opened the box cos it was meant to be a present for someone. Therefore I cannot believe my item is not working like the buyer claims. But the buyer can simply lie to get her full refund.

    The 45 days claim from PayPal is just a joke. So if I start to sell my old stuff, I will need to check and test every single OLD item to make sure they can live more than 45 days. On the other hand, I suppose I can be like my buyer buying things and making false claims to say the things fail to work within 45 days, so I can get a free rental via PayPal every 45 days.

    PayPal has made up their mind to FORCE me to accept the item back and issue a full refund. To be honest, PayPal is better to tell the buyer to keep the item and the money, cos I cannot see any difference at all. My item has been used for decoration for 3 full weeks. I don't see it's now worth anything.

    Once a robber, always a robber! New guys old tricks...
  • NCISROCKS
    • #4
    • 24th Nov 11, 12:48 AM
    • #4
    • 24th Nov 11, 12:48 AM
    I know it is not faulty because this woman told me she needed the dehumidifier for a home improvement project urgently. She demanded me to post her the item for next day before 12 delivery but she was not willing to pay the extra fee for the morning delivery. When the item was delivered to her, it was accepted and signed by one of her workmen. Since then until last friday, I heard nothing from her to say the item was not working, but all the sudden out of the blue she phoned me to say the item was not working (yes, she said it was not working, but not it has stopped working), so basically she was telling me the dehumidifier has never been working since she/her workman received it 3 weeks ago. How does it work?

    (She also claims there is no instruction manual, surely it doesn't take her 3 weeks to discover there is no instruction manual if she is telling the truth)

    Let me tell you this... I bought my little brother a brand new 48" plasma telly from Dixons some years ago. The telly broke down in two weeks, I contacted Dixons to report the problem, they told me to contact the manufacturer instead. The comment they gave me was they only acted as a reseller, if there was anything wrong with the item, I should go back to the manufacturer. The guarantee was given by the manufacturer, not by the reseller. Same as my case, the dehumidifier is guaranteed by the manufacturer, not me. Besides, can you imagine how much the retail prices can be if resellers need to do the manufacturers' job?

    The dehumidifier was a manufacturer' refurbished item. It was checked and tested by a qualified technician before it was sold to me. I have never opened the box cos it was meant to be a present for someone. Therefore I cannot believe my item is not working like the buyer claims. But the buyer can simply lie to get her full refund.

    The 45 days claim from PayPal is just a joke. So if I start to sell my old stuff, I will need to check and test every single OLD item to make sure they can live more than 45 days. On the other hand, I suppose I can be like my buyer buying things and making false claims to say the things fail to work within 45 days, so I can get a free rental via PayPal every 45 days.

    PayPal has made up their mind to FORCE me to accept the item back and issue a full refund. To be honest, PayPal is better to tell the buyer to keep the item and the money, cos I cannot see any difference at all. My item has been used for decoration for 3 full weeks. I don't see it's now worth anything.

    Once a robber, always a robber! New guys old tricks...
    Originally posted by BartyBoy

    You clearly have a lot to learn. If you're selling on ebay you have agreed to abide by their T&C's...so you have to do so!
  • bowdengr37
    • #5
    • 24th Nov 11, 2:46 AM
    • #5
    • 24th Nov 11, 2:46 AM
    How long did you have it in the box, without even opening it, before you sold it on eBay?

    Bearing in mind that you never tested it (by your own admission), how can you be sure it works/worked when you sold it?

    What would happen if, for example, you refused to accept it back? Perhaps the box is covered in plaster or damaged, or there are obvious signs of it having been used for a DIY purpose. Next time you 'speak' to Paypal, try asking that.
    • Enfieldian
    • By Enfieldian 24th Nov 11, 2:46 AM
    • 2,704 Posts
    • 2,755 Thanks
    Enfieldian
    • #6
    • 24th Nov 11, 2:46 AM
    • #6
    • 24th Nov 11, 2:46 AM

    Let me tell you this... I bought my little brother a brand new 48" plasma telly from Dixons some years ago. The telly broke down in two weeks, I contacted Dixons to report the problem, they told me to contact the manufacturer instead. The comment they gave me was they only acted as a reseller, if there was anything wrong with the item, I should go back to the manufacturer. The guarantee was given by the manufacturer, not by the reseller. Same as my case, the dehumidifier is guaranteed by the manufacturer, not me. Besides, can you imagine how much the retail prices can be if resellers need to do the manufacturers' job?
    Originally posted by BartyBoy

    Then Dixons, or rather the person that your brother spoke to, were wrong.

    The initial warranty period is covered by the merchant, not the manufacturer. This should have been the case for at least the first 12 months.

    In this case YOU are the merchant and bear the responsibiliies that it entails.

    As pointed out before, PayPal's 45 day ruling is well known and has been abused before.

    Unfortunately it seems as though you have been had over but to be honest this all sounded a bit suspicious from the point that the sale was agreed, I would have seen that coming,

    Next time sell it on Gumtree or in the local paper for cash on collection
    • gravitytolls
    • By gravitytolls 24th Nov 11, 4:21 AM
    • 12,997 Posts
    • 23,207 Thanks
    gravitytolls
    • #7
    • 24th Nov 11, 4:21 AM
    • #7
    • 24th Nov 11, 4:21 AM
    Anyhoo, you may not get it back, they weight half a ton and will be costly to post. If you're lucky your buyer may just decide against returning, as she would have to pay postage.
    I ave a dodgy H, so sometimes I will sound dead common, on occasion dead stupid and rarely, pig ignorant. Sometimes I may be these things, but I will always blame it on my dodgy H.

    Sorry, I'm a bit of a grumble weed today, no offence intended ... well it might be, but I'll be sorry.
  • junkmayle
    • #8
    • 24th Nov 11, 7:53 AM
    • #8
    • 24th Nov 11, 7:53 AM
    Also, if she doesnt return it via a trackable method, whos to say that you got it back, if you see what Im getting at. Paypal will then refund themselves.
    • Brooker Dave
    • By Brooker Dave 24th Nov 11, 8:56 AM
    • 4,919 Posts
    • 3,152 Thanks
    Brooker Dave
    • #9
    • 24th Nov 11, 8:56 AM
    • #9
    • 24th Nov 11, 8:56 AM
    You clearly have a lot to learn. If you're selling on ebay you have agreed to abide by their T&C's...so you have to do so!
    Originally posted by NCISROCKS
    Unfair T&Cs are unenforcable T&Cs.

    HTH.
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 24th Nov 11, 9:03 AM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    You clearly have a lot to learn. If you're selling on ebay you have agreed to abide by their T&C's...so you have to do so!
    Originally posted by NCISROCKS
    hello there, thanks for your comment. I did not sell my dehumidifier on ebay. it was a private sale with a PayPal payment...
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 24th Nov 11, 10:14 AM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    Anyhoo, you may not get it back, they weight half a ton and will be costly to post. If you're lucky your buyer may just decide against returning, as she would have to pay postage.
    Originally posted by gravitytolls
    the item with the original P&P cost her £115.00. she would definitely send the dehumidifier back to me for a full refund. besides she has now submitted a tracking number to PayPal. she doesn't need any proofs to show whether i have received the item or not. all PayPal asks for is a tracking number to my address, then she will get her money back straight away. that is another dirty trick from PayPal for us!
  • junkmayle
    Bartyboy - When it comes back you can indicate to Paypal that it was not received in the condition it was sent out in or some other such complaint. The options should be visible in the Paypal dispute screen. Usually in these cases, Paypal refund from thier own pockets. A tracking number means nothing. It could just be an empty envolope.
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 24th Nov 11, 12:07 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    Bartyboy - When it comes back you can indicate to Paypal that it was not received in the condition it was sent out in or some other such complaint. The options should be visible in the Paypal dispute screen. Usually in these cases, Paypal refund from thier own pockets. A tracking number means nothing. It could just be an empty envolope.
    Originally posted by junkmayle
    many thanks for your advice, i haven't thought of the buyer could send me an empty box with a tracking number on it. i will be surprised if the dehumidifier comes back to me in the original condition. the buyer made it very clear in the beginning that she purchased the item purely for a home improvement project, i just don't believe she has never used the item within those three weeks...
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 24th Nov 11, 12:10 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    Unfair T&Cs are unenforcable T&Cs.

    HTH.
    Originally posted by Brooker Dave
    hi there, thanks for your comment...

    to be honest, if i really wanted to be an as*, i could argue with PayPal that i also have my version of T&Cs under my trading. PayPal's T&Cs are just an excuse for an unfair trade and a pile of poo...
    • Azari
    • By Azari 24th Nov 11, 12:40 PM
    • 3,941 Posts
    • 6,164 Thanks
    Azari
    hi there, thanks for your comment...

    to be honest, if i really wanted to be an as*, i could argue with PayPal that i also have my version of T&Cs under my trading. PayPal's T&Cs are just an excuse for an unfair trade and a pile of poo...
    Originally posted by BartyBoy
    Unfortunately, though, paypal did not sign up to you.

    I would, however, agree, that paypal are pretty useless when a dispute occurs and are uninterested in fairness - only that buyers feel their system is safe and that they, themselves, do not end up out of pocket.

    Then again, in any dispute, one side is always going to feel hard done by.
    There are two types of people in the world: Those that can extrapolate information.
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 24th Nov 11, 12:45 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    How long did you have it in the box, without even opening it, before you sold it on eBay?

    Bearing in mind that you never tested it (by your own admission), how can you be sure it works/worked when you sold it?

    What would happen if, for example, you refused to accept it back? Perhaps the box is covered in plaster or damaged, or there are obvious signs of it having been used for a DIY purpose. Next time you 'speak' to Paypal, try asking that.
    Originally posted by bowdengr37
    hi there, thanks for your comment...

    i received the item from my seller on 13 oct, it was meant to be a gift for somebody, but later i was told this person has already had a dehumidifier. so i decided to re-sell it instead. the item was sold to my buyer on 24 oct and she received the item on 28 oct cos she was faffing around with the delivery. she wanted the item to be delivered to her next morning (25 oct) before 12 but would not pay for the priority service. later she told me to hold fire not to send the item yet, then on 26 oct she texted me to ask me to send the item to her on 27 oct, so she could have it on 28 oct, again she demanded the delivery to be done by 12 on 28 oct but she did not prepare to pay a penny extra. the item was delivered to one of her 'workmen' on 28 oct morning.

    i bought this dehumidifier from someone (a company) who runs a shop on ebay. he labelled this item as manufacturer refurbished. he advertised the item was checked and tested by a qualified technician before despatched, and it comes with 90 days manufacturer's guarantee. so based on my seller's descriptions and his over 47k positive feedbacks, i don't think the item would be faulty when it came to me.

    i can't refuse to accept the item from my buyer's courier, cos it will show on the system i refuse the delivery. i just hope that the item or/and the original box is full of marks and dirt from the decoration. but again, i have run out of energy to talk to PayPal again.
  • texranger
    Bartyboy - so you signed up to Paypal, but thought that Paypals policies dont apply to you. Paypal have decided so the buyer will have to return the item by tracked means and you wil have to refund, nothing more that that.
    • Brooker Dave
    • By Brooker Dave 25th Nov 11, 2:05 AM
    • 4,919 Posts
    • 3,152 Thanks
    Brooker Dave
    hello there, thanks for your comment. I did not sell my dehumidifier on ebay. it was a private sale with a PayPal payment...
    Originally posted by BartyBoy
    Did you withdraw the money from your paypal account to your bank account?

    If so, just laugh at paypal and leave them to moan about the negative balance caused by their unususal business model (a money transfer company who can't do it properly).
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 26th Nov 11, 5:22 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    Bartyboy - so you signed up to Paypal, but thought that Paypals policies dont apply to you. Paypal have decided so the buyer will have to return the item by tracked means and you wil have to refund, nothing more that that.
    Originally posted by texranger
    hi there, thank you for your message...

    just a quick update about my case, the item did return back to me in the end. as i expected it has been used and is now damaged too. i have already raised the issue to PayPal as soon as the item was delivered to me, and stupid PayPal asked me to take the damaged dehumidifier to a local Police station to get certified (as in a police officer writes down the current condition/status of the item). can you believe this? anyway due to the awkward PayPal policies, i did take the damaged item to a local Police station and the Police officer just laughed at me to say Police will not certify the damaged dehumidifier for me. Got back home, rang PayPal again, i explained the situation to the claim team, then they asked me to phone 101 from my home phone to speak to a local Police call centre, then tell them what happened and asked for a crime reference. again i followed what PayPal asked me to do and the chap from the Police call centre said he could not issue me a crime reference, cos there was no crime involved, all he could give me was an incident number instead. i knew thats what would happened to me!!

    i sent a stroppy email to PayPal to ask them if they knew what they were doing. i suggested them maybe it would be better and quicker to resolve the problem if i bring the damaged dehumidifier to their office, so i can show it to their face! got no response for that email at all, typical!
    Last edited by BartyBoy; 26-11-2011 at 5:51 PM.
    • BartyBoy
    • By BartyBoy 26th Nov 11, 5:43 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    BartyBoy
    Did you withdraw the money from your paypal account to your bank account?

    If so, just laugh at paypal and leave them to moan about the negative balance caused by their unususal business model (a money transfer company who can't do it properly).
    Originally posted by Brooker Dave
    hi there, thank you for your comment...

    luckily i did withdraw the money as soon as i received it from the buyer weeks ago, and now i have cancelled my debit and credit cards which were registered to my PayPal account. PayPal did try to get some money from my bank account, but i have already instructed my bank to block any money request from PayPal, so now my PayPal account is -£110.95, what a shame!

    anyway, i phoned PayPal this morning, and spent 45mins on the phone with a chap called alex from the claim team. i explained to alex the whole story and i disagreed with PayPal to issue a refund to the buyer. then alex suggested i could fill in and submit a form to PayPal to describe the damage of the dehumidifier. then PayPal will review the damage and give me an offer to compensate the damage of the item. if i reject the offer, PayPal will then purchase the item off from me at the original selling price. i told alex i just could not believe PayPal would rather buying the item off from me than taking an action against the buyer for making a false claim. that is just wrong and unfair.

    again, like what i always think, if PayPal want to refund the money to the buyer, they can use their own money, not mine!

    if any of you comes across to an user called dislimit_doodlesatymail (Mimi Frank / Michelle Frank) on ebay, she is the one who bought my dehumidifier, used it for 3 weeks, then lied to me to say the machine was not working and asked for a full refund. be warned and be aware!!!

    what goes around, comes around. i just hope someone will do what she did to me to her one day or even every day! she is one hell of a disgraceful creature!!
    Last edited by BartyBoy; 26-11-2011 at 6:01 PM.
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