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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Archna
    • By MSE Archna 22nd Jan 07, 7:25 PM
    • 1,874Posts
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    MSE Archna
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Carol take Sharon on?
    • #1
    • 22nd Jan 07, 7:25 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Carol take Sharon on? 22nd Jan 07 at 7:25 PM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Should Carol compete with her best friend?

    "Carol and Madge have always worked together, they applied together and have been best friends since school. Unlike Carol, who's great with her cash, Madge's a financial nightmare; she's heavily in debt and is struggling to keep a roof over her son's head.

    Now there's a promotion available at work, it's all Madge's been going on about as her 'way out'. Carol's not mentioned it, but she'd be interested in applying too and is the only one in the firm with as good a chance as Madge."

    Martin

    Click REPLY to enter the money moral maze (please remember, be polite to other MoneySavers, even if you disagree with them)

    Past MMDs:
    Last edited by MSE Martin; 23-01-2007 at 7:51 PM.
    Report inappropriate posts: forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com




Page 1
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 23rd Jan 07, 12:25 AM
    • 31,446 Posts
    • 60,580 Thanks
    seven-day-weekend
    • #2
    • 23rd Jan 07, 12:25 AM
    • #2
    • 23rd Jan 07, 12:25 AM
    They should both apply and may the best girl win. Fair and square.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • eyelinerprincess
    • By eyelinerprincess 23rd Jan 07, 12:57 AM
    • 4,527 Posts
    • 3,642 Thanks
    eyelinerprincess
    • #3
    • 23rd Jan 07, 12:57 AM
    • #3
    • 23rd Jan 07, 12:57 AM
    Gut instinct is that best woman wins.

    HOWEVER, since they have been friends forever, would it ruin their friendship if Carol got the job?
    • angelatgraceland
    • By angelatgraceland 23rd Jan 07, 1:01 AM
    • 3,318 Posts
    • 23,074 Thanks
    angelatgraceland
    • #4
    • 23rd Jan 07, 1:01 AM
    • #4
    • 23rd Jan 07, 1:01 AM
    Perhaps Carol should talk to Madge about it and "come clean" by stating that she is also intersted in the promotion. If Madge is really her friend she deserves this honesty. There is of course the chance that someone outside of the firm may be able to apply which is even more reason that Carol should apply with Madge's understanding.
    Last edited by MSE Martin; 23-01-2007 at 7:52 PM.
    Annual Grocery budget 2018 is 1500 pa 125 calendar month 28.84 pw for 3 adults
  • royster35
    • #5
    • 23rd Jan 07, 9:49 PM
    Optimist
    • #5
    • 23rd Jan 07, 9:49 PM
    Carol,

    You have only one life and one career. You owe it to yourself and anyone else who has ever invested in you, including your employer, to make the most of the opportunities you have been given. You must be diplomatic but you must apply.
    • angelatgraceland
    • By angelatgraceland 23rd Jan 07, 11:51 PM
    • 3,318 Posts
    • 23,074 Thanks
    angelatgraceland
    • #6
    • 23rd Jan 07, 11:51 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Jan 07, 11:51 PM
    Is Madge Madonna by any chance? LOL If so, she can sell the brassires on ebay to support her son. They will get a good price!
    Annual Grocery budget 2018 is 1500 pa 125 calendar month 28.84 pw for 3 adults
    • Frogling
    • By Frogling 24th Jan 07, 10:31 AM
    • 1,151 Posts
    • 589 Thanks
    Frogling
    • #7
    • 24th Jan 07, 10:31 AM
    • #7
    • 24th Jan 07, 10:31 AM
    My view is that career should be kept separate from friendship - if you want to go for a promotion, why put it on hold just for the sake of your friend? If Madge was simply a colleague who you didn't know very well, rather than a friend, and you had heard she was having financial difficulties, would you have second thoughts about applying for the same job?

    Perhaps Carol could point Madge in the direction of MSE, where she could pick up lots of hints, tips and sound advice on managing her money. After all, if Madge is a financial disaster, how will having a little extra money coming in every month help her? She needs to learn how to manage her money - she might just decide she can afford to spend more if she gets the promotion!

    I think Carol should tell Madge that she will be applying for the job too - Madge might be upset at first, but if she's a true friend then she will understand that Carol isn't doing it to spite her, but because she wants to further her own career.
  • teddyandpaul
    • #8
    • 24th Jan 07, 12:02 PM
    Career or friendship
    • #8
    • 24th Jan 07, 12:02 PM
    Carol needs to sit down with a bit of paper and work out how much she needs the promotion against how much she needs the friendhsip! If she goes for the promotion irrespective of who wins Madge will feel betrayed. Having had a best friend myself for many, many years whose support has been invaluable to me, my instinct is to say back off and let Madge go for the promotion. Another chance will come along in good time and a good frienship is worth almost anything.
  • Muffcat
    • #9
    • 24th Jan 07, 2:46 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA - Carol and Madge
    • #9
    • 24th Jan 07, 2:46 PM
    Yes, of course Carol should apply for the job and the fact that Madge is applying also should make no difference, although it might be kind to tell her. It would be quite wrong for Carol to abstain out of sympathy for her friend's financial state. Presumably this hasn't happened overnight, so what guarantee would there be that with more money at her disposal she would use it to put matters right? Perhaps a present of Martin's book would be a friendly gesture!
    • Idiophreak
    • By Idiophreak 24th Jan 07, 4:20 PM
    • 11,636 Posts
    • 15,175 Thanks
    Idiophreak
    It's madge's problem if she can't sort out her own finances.

    Carol shouldn't put her life on hold because of it.

    GO CAROL!
    • conradmum
    • By conradmum 24th Jan 07, 7:53 PM
    • 4,820 Posts
    • 9,180 Thanks
    conradmum
    The fallacy in Madge's thinking is that a promotion will be her 'way out'. It won't be. Her only way out is to change her ideas and habits about money. Even if she were to get the promotion she would only rack up more debt in the end. So Carol shouldn't feel guilty about applying for the promotion. It won't difference to Madge's long term predicament, and if Madge is a real friend she won't take it personally.
    • conradmum
    • By conradmum 24th Jan 07, 8:17 PM
    • 4,820 Posts
    • 9,180 Thanks
    conradmum
    Sorry double post.
  • mistdemon
    Easy one this - Carol should go for the job, she can't be held responsible for Madge's poor financial record. If she gets it and Madge falls out with her then the friendship wasn't worth much anyway. I'd be tempted to direct Madge towards MSE and, more importantly, a debt counsellor...
    if i had known then what i know now
    • trundlecat
    • By trundlecat 25th Jan 07, 8:57 AM
    • 114 Posts
    • 359 Thanks
    trundlecat
    Carol should go for it! I wish I had £1 for every time I've heard "if I only get this job that'll be the end to all our money problems" from a friend of mine. She's almost always got the jobs but never gets out of debt because of her skewed ideas of what are "wants" & what are "needs". You could hand a serial debtor a winning lottery ticket & they'd still be in the same position a few years down the line..... but they'd still "need" their hair doing every month, a skiing holiday once a year etc.
  • martin900
    I've kinda been in a similar situation although in reverse.

    The company I worked for fell on hard times and unfortunately it meant the staff faced permanent redundancies. Having been with the company for eight years since graduating from university I was completely green to the process, although I was told early on that it wouldn't affect me.

    They were wrong. Seventy redundancies was the figure that the management arrived at, some were individual positions some were pools. Now if you're unfamiliar with the term 'pool' I'll explain. A 'pool' is where there a group of similar skilled people effectively fighting for fewer positions than there were before. So for example 5 people fighting for 2 positions, 3 have to use the front door.

    Yep, you guessed it, I was in a pool of 2 competing for 1 position. Along with a good friend of mine who I'd worked alongside for nearly 7 years and I'd also knew from my college days.

    He wasn't the sharpest tool in the box, but all the same was a thoroughly nice well meaning bloke who really didn't know what he wanted to do with the rest of his life. Anywho, we were both interviewed and scored seperately for the position but I had already made my decision. I was going to let him have the position whatever the outcome. There were many reasons for my decision but the main ones were that the job responsibilities had changed and there was still an uncertain future for the company. But the biggest reason is that I felt like I would be stealing the job out from under my friends nose. It wasn't that I felt he deserved it more but that I felt I was better prepared for the outside world and frankly it was the kick up the bum I needed to further my career.

    I spent the next 4 months getting tanned in the lovely summer weather, watching England snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in the World Cup and also watch my redundancy money dwindle. However in November I started contracting and I haven't looked back, I now earn more than 3 times the wage I used to and have a far more fulfilling working life to boot.

    The upshot of all this is if you feel your concience can't handle such a decision then don't do it, I live by 2 mantras 'everything happens for a reason' and 'do unto others as you'd be done to yourself'.

    I now have a better job in so many ways and I sleep sound at night.
    • petermcuk
    • By petermcuk 25th Jan 07, 10:14 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    petermcuk
    Some firms downsize themselves into extinction!..... I got made redundant from a bullying company, had a difficult couple of years but I am now back on track and no longer terrified of redundancy!

    Individual personal principals will determine if both go for the job but I agree the promotion will not solve the problem for Madge - Her outgoings will always expand to absorb her income unless she changes her attitude. Surprisingly this can work the other way round too. When I had little money I spent much less on non essentials.
    • Biggles
    • By Biggles 25th Jan 07, 10:20 AM
    • 7,611 Posts
    • 5,013 Thanks
    Biggles
    Who the hell's Sharon?

    Anyway, obviously she should go for it. She doesn't know what qualities the company are looking for to fill this post, and Madge may be given a free run by Carol and turn out not to be what they were looking for at all; how would Carol feel then about not having applied?
    • Mics_chick
    • By Mics_chick 25th Jan 07, 11:21 AM
    • 11,688 Posts
    • 11,566 Thanks
    Mics_chick
    Yes Carol should apply because despite what Madge says I think if she's got more money coming in then she'll just spend more and her debts will get worse anyway... Why should Carol put her career and ambition on hold for someone who can't handle her money even if she is her friend?? Cos you never know - the job might go to another applicant anyway... If Carol is Madge's friend then maybe a tactful word about money (like point her to MSE ) is all that she can realistically do to help her in any case...
    You should never call somebody else a nerd or geek because everybody (even YOU !!!) is an
    "anorak" about something whether it's trains, computers, football, shoes or celebs
    • mazz1953
    • By mazz1953 25th Jan 07, 2:21 PM
    • 181 Posts
    • 232 Thanks
    mazz1953
    My first reaction was that Carol should go for the promotion, but on second thoughts, I think she should hold back and let Madge go ahead.
    While it is true that if Madge gets the promo and more money she will probably squander it, that would be up to her. However, if Carol was to apply and get the promotion, I believe Madge would feel betrayed and resent Carol success and this would affect their friendship.
    There may well be more opportunities in the future for Carol to apply for promotion, it would be much more difficult to mend a broken or strained friendship.
  • Saucepot
    The best plan would be to either apply for the promotion or indicate your interest without telling a soul. Then do all that one can to undermine your competitor by fair means or foul. Indirectly (there must be no blood on your hands) show your competitor to be incompetent.

    When your promotion is anounced, say you were surprised to be asked to do it, and pleased to be given the opportunity. Tell people you are only happy to take on these managerial responsibilites because you work with such great people.

    Sympathise with your friend and indicate you will do all you can to assist her progress, and now your heading upwards, that with mutual support you will claw up the ranks together.

    Then plot your next step upwards.
    Last edited by Saucepot; 26-01-2007 at 8:45 AM.
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