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    • interestedinsavings
    • By interestedinsavings 9th Aug 18, 12:23 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    interestedinsavings
    The cabinet looks nice, but makes the £20 radiator £85
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 9th Aug 18, 1:40 PM
    • 27,587 Posts
    • 13,543 Thanks
    Cardew
    The cabinet looks nice, but makes the £20 radiator £85
    Originally posted by interestedinsavings



    Agreed very expensive - perhaps Fischer will price-match
    • mumf
    • By mumf 9th Aug 18, 8:22 PM
    • 191 Posts
    • 667 Thanks
    mumf
    I never understood radiator cabinets.They were a 90's 'Changing Rooms ' thing as I recall.Surely they prevent heat escaping and rising? And the MDF? - It is what they always used- must absorb some heat?
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 9th Aug 18, 8:57 PM
    • 27,587 Posts
    • 13,543 Thanks
    Cardew
    I never understood radiator cabinets.They were a 90's 'Changing Rooms ' thing as I recall.Surely they prevent heat escaping and rising? And the MDF? - It is what they always used- must absorb some heat?
    Originally posted by mumf

    You could similarly argue that the metal casing of the radiator absorbs some heat from the water.


    Any restriction near the radiator, be it a cabinet or some furniture, will affect the distribution of the heat, but all heat produced by the radiator will end up warming the room. Heat absorbed by a cabinet, made of any material, will still be released into the room. Similarly if your oven uses 1kWh to cook food, that heat eventually will be released into a room.
    • Apoorwoman
    • By Apoorwoman 12th Aug 18, 4:21 PM
    • 207 Posts
    • 439 Thanks
    Apoorwoman
    Good News
    My neighbour has been refunded her £6,000 deposit in full

    It hasn't been easy, ringing every day and being fobbed off - 'lady that does the refunds is on holiday for two weeks - is off sick' etc., etc. But she persisted.

    A lesson learned I think. I have always considered my neighbour to be pretty savvy and even she can't come to terms with how she was so gullible.

    So thank you all for your help and advice.
    • David Aston
    • By David Aston 3rd Sep 18, 12:02 PM
    • 905 Posts
    • 596 Thanks
    David Aston
    Green age,
    And the cost of Fischer?
    Are they "money saving" value?
    • reck_uk
    • By reck_uk 5th Sep 18, 1:40 PM
    • 112 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    reck_uk


    Fischer
    While the products themselves seem decent enough....

    Originally posted by TheGreenAge
    Really! Very concerning seeing an organisation post something like that about Fischer. You only have to look at this one thread to see the problems with them.

    They've been caught out multiple times being misleading to their potential customers and the prices they charge are astronomical.

    How can you justify saying they are "decent enough"?

    Their product would be decent if they were honest about what they are and what they can achieve and they supplied them at a reasonable price.
    • xinstaller
    • By xinstaller 15th Sep 18, 5:51 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    xinstaller
    Price of fischer heaters
    Could cost anything between £1500-£2500 per heater. The price is quoted high then knocked down to make it look like you are getting a deal. The recent reviews on Trustpilot only confirm the company installers are doing a good job. Fischer does not have genuine reviews on it's running cost nor are their customers invited to leave reviews on it's running cost. Thats why soon after installation customers are persuaded to leave reviews. While the previous reviews on Trustpilot are mainly FAKE and not left by genuine customers.
    Last edited by xinstaller; 16-09-2018 at 2:23 PM. Reason: change
    • xinstaller
    • By xinstaller 26th Sep 18, 10:27 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    xinstaller
    Fisher future heat price list.
    Expect to be quoted in excess of £2500 per heater then knocked down to £2000 for heater that will almost double your heating bills. There are no reviews of the operating cost of these heaters. The reviews you are forced to read on TRUSTPILOT mainly confirm that the installers arrived on time and cleaned up after them. . Its about time Fischer future heat invites its customers to leave genuine reviews, instead of excuses excuses .


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    Fake witness at sham marriages must be held to account
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 27th Sep 18, 12:53 PM
    • 3,389 Posts
    • 1,855 Thanks
    lstar337
    Any restriction near the radiator, be it a cabinet or some furniture, will affect the distribution of the heat, but all heat produced by the radiator will end up warming the room. Heat absorbed by a cabinet, made of any material, will still be released into the room. Similarly if your oven uses 1kWh to cook food, that heat eventually will be released into a room.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    Good old physics.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 27th Sep 18, 1:01 PM
    • 3,389 Posts
    • 1,855 Thanks
    lstar337
    It should also be noted that Economy 7/Economy 10 relies on base load energy generation, which is maintained by technologies being rapidly overtaken in the UK by newer, renewable sources. Therefore the tariff basis on which a storage heater saves money may, in a few years time, cease to be an option.
    Originally posted by TheGreenAge
    It wont cease to be an option, It'll likely be taken over by more variable 'Time Of Use' tariffs.

    Night storage equipment is already capable of accepting a charge at any time, so it'll take a charge whenever the circuit is energised. Electric co's will likely make use of excess green generation in the future by dumping it in customers NSH's when needed.

    Newer NSH's are also designed to take charge in this way and will manage a variable supply more effectively.
    • Be Happy
    • By Be Happy 28th Sep 18, 9:41 AM
    • 1,166 Posts
    • 507 Thanks
    Be Happy

    Newer NSH's are also designed to take charge in this way and will manage a variable supply more effectively.
    Originally posted by lstar337
    Hi Istar. I'm planning on replacing my old storage heaters later this year and am hoping to go for the new XLE range. Does the above remark apply to them, or are we only talking Quantum range here?

    Thanks
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 28th Sep 18, 11:35 AM
    • 3,985 Posts
    • 2,530 Thanks
    matelodave
    I'd want to do some very careful calculations before just jumping in and buying new super duper heaters especially if the building isn't built or insulated to the latest specifications. Beware the "rule of thumb" calculators and make sure you've done a proper room by room heat loss assessment.

    A room that has a heat loss of 3kwh when it's everso cold outside (zero) wont be heated by a 1.5kw heater. A storage heater that's only stored around 3kwh will run out in less than two hours.

    It may be that it doesn't get down to zero very often but if the storage heaters aren't sized correctly the heating will have to be supplemented by "on demand" heaters using peak rate electricity, which seems to be how Quantum are specified - to use direct heating when it's everso cold.

    Precision temperature control and timers that are accurate to the minute will not compensate for a heater that isn't big enough to heat the space in the first place.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • xinstaller
    • By xinstaller 1st Oct 18, 11:47 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    xinstaller
    It is highly recommended by the department of ethical practices to obtain a MONEY BACK guarantee in writing before you sign on the dotted line. Surely that should not be a problem ALARM BELLS should sound if they make deals on the day. Various Uk government agencies have confirmed that ELECTRICAL heating is more expensive than GAS. I have personally noticed products sold at homes of vulnerable people by Heating surveyors, salespeople, heating engineers you name it, have never WORKED. And thats the reason no written guarantee is given by these people. All you get is concern and excuses


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    Fake witness at sham marriages must be held to account
    Last edited by xinstaller; 02-10-2018 at 2:21 PM. Reason: spellping
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 2nd Oct 18, 9:31 AM
    • 3,389 Posts
    • 1,855 Thanks
    lstar337
    I'd want to do some very careful calculations before just jumping in and buying new super duper heaters especially if the building isn't built or insulated to the latest specifications. Beware the "rule of thumb" calculators and make sure you've done a proper room by room heat loss assessment.

    A room that has a heat loss of 3kwh when it's everso cold outside (zero) wont be heated by a 1.5kw heater. A storage heater that's only stored around 3kwh will run out in less than two hours.

    It may be that it doesn't get down to zero very often but if the storage heaters aren't sized correctly the heating will have to be supplemented by "on demand" heaters using peak rate electricity, which seems to be how Quantum are specified - to use direct heating when it's everso cold.

    Precision temperature control and timers that are accurate to the minute will not compensate for a heater that isn't big enough to heat the space in the first place.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    Indeed, Quantum only makes sense if your insulation is pretty good.

    Also, you would want to heavily over-spec them to avoid that costly peak rate top up function.

    Then you start hitting problems with a very high initial cost.

    Quantum need to come down a lot in price, or be susidised in some way, to make them a true money saving option. Of course, if you just want comfort without the outrageous costs of direct electric heating, they are a nice option.

    PS, I was talking about Quantum when I said about renewables input, however, in theory, any dumb NSH could take a renewable input.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 2nd Oct 18, 9:33 AM
    • 3,389 Posts
    • 1,855 Thanks
    lstar337
    Any restriction near the radiator, be it a cabinet or some furniture, will affect the distribution of the heat, but all heat produced by the radiator will end up warming the room. Heat absorbed by a cabinet, made of any material, will still be released into the room. Similarly if your oven uses 1kWh to cook food, that heat eventually will be released into a room.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    The only issue with this being when the cabinet/furniture interferes with the function of the thermostatic radiator valve.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 2nd Oct 18, 10:27 AM
    • 8,667 Posts
    • 23,592 Thanks
    EachPenny
    The downside is that the high performance models are expensive to buy and are limited in what they can achieve without pulling in expensive daytime electricity. They also require the Economy 7/Economy 10 energy tariff in order to be efficient, as well as all operators having a good working knowledge of the system. If you have a storage heater and you're not sure you're using it right, it's time to learn.

    It should also be noted that Economy 7/Economy 10 relies on base load energy generation, which is maintained by technologies being rapidly overtaken in the UK by newer, renewable sources. Therefore the tariff basis on which a storage heater saves money may, in a few years time, cease to be an option.
    Originally posted by TheGreenAge
    I read this bit and almost decided to ignore the rest of your post, but decided to persevere.

    I'm intrigued. Do you believe the wind stops blowing at night, or the tides only happen during the day? Is there a new renewable source (other than solar) which is only available daytime? Will the grid engineers come up with some new technology (batteries?) which will ensure grid stability if one of the large wind power schemes trip out, allowing all gas and nuclear plant to be shut down when not required?

    I was so intrigued I followed your link and discovered most of your post was a copy and paste from your website.

    But I like to keep an open mind and read on, and was even more intrigued by this section;-
    Oil filled radiators work on the basis that when electricity is passed through it, the fluid expands and gives off heat through the surface of the radiator. Like a traditional radiator, it is this surface temperature that warms the room.
    Could you please expand (sorry for the pun) on how exactly this 'fluid expands' thing works in order to provide heat? If making fluids expand gives off heat then the World's energy crisis has been solved (and GCSE physics textbooks need to be re-written).

    Also, back when I was at school they taught us that oil was quite a good insulator, so how exactly do they arrange things so "electricity [can be] passed through it"? Is it a special kind of oil? (one produced by snakes for example?)

    If there is any kind of threat to the availability of cheap electricity for overnight heating then it will come from the need for copious amounts of electricity to charge the national fleet of electric vehicles, many of which will be charged overnight when not in use. But to ensure that happens - rather than everyone plugging their EV in to charge when they get home from work (and stick the kettle/oven/TV/lights on) - we will need to have an electricity supply system with differential charges at different times of day (or levels of demand).

    The Government might require separate electricity metering for EV charging, so restricting people to charging off-peak, but it is rather more likely that whole-house differential pricing (aka E7/E10) will become the norm, and astute observers might note that the 'smart' meter programme would facilitate such a thing to happen.

    Therefore your claim that storage heaters are "...big, bulky, expensive to buy, and run the risk of becoming obsolete." seems to be made on the basis of some rather shaky assumptions. Possibly to the point of being misleading.

    Which is an unfortunate thing to see on a thread about a company which trades on getting people to ditch their [now running "the risk of becoming obsolete"] storage heaters.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 2nd Oct 18, 11:24 AM
    • 27,587 Posts
    • 13,543 Thanks
    Cardew
    .
    Originally posted by TheGreenAge

    What does this mean?


    Has MSE’s permission to post for organisation
    MoneySaving Newbi

    You are just a commercial organisation indirectly using MSE to tout for business.
    • Smurffff
    • By Smurffff 8th Oct 18, 11:36 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Smurffff
    Hi, wish I had read this earlier. Made an appointment with Fischer a few months ago. Salesman arrived all very professional. Spent about 2 hours in the house , surveyed the house, a demonstration including a sample in his briefcase that heated up??? Then came the tricky bit the price. Bearing in mind it's a 3 bedroom house, it started at £12500. However after much negotiating and being sworn to secrecy that we were being offered the friends and family discount (don't mention it to anyone) and the multi discount as some rooms needed 2 heaters in. The price did come down by a few thousand. However the crunch question....... how much will it save us per month compared to our storage heating. We were told can't tell you , possibly nothing. Might even cost more per month, plus the monthly payments to Fischer. Definitely a non starter. Guy was polite, but took a while to take the hint.
    Glad we didn't waste our money.
    • xinstaller
    • By xinstaller 23rd Oct 18, 2:35 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    xinstaller
    Fischer Heater Price and what to expect.
    https://michael-donkin.blogspot.com/2017/01/why-we-wont-be-buying-fischer-future.html
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