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    • interestedinsavings
    • By interestedinsavings 3rd Jun 18, 8:02 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    interestedinsavings
    Fischer Futureheat has had yet another ruling against them by Advertising Standards Association dated 14th March ( maybe someone could post the link ). The ASA have at last ruled that Fischer heaters are not storage heaters and must not be called storage heaters in their advertising
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 3rd Jun 18, 10:00 PM
    • 8,848 Posts
    • 10,186 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    We concluded that the claim "storage heater" in the ad, as consumers were likely to understand it, had not been substantiated and was therefore misleading.
    We noted that even if the energy savings stated in the report were representative of average consumer use, the Fischer systems would still cost more to run due to the differences in cost between electricity and gas.

    We concluded that the claims "Gas boiler uses more energy" and "Fischer dynamic storage heaters use up to 50% less energy than your gas boiler", as consumers were likely to understand them - that is, that they would achieve a monetary saving by using a Fischer heater as opposed to gas central heating - had not been substantiated and were therefore misleading.
    ASA Ruling on Fischer Future Heat UK Ltd 14 March 2018
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • interestedinsavings
    • By interestedinsavings 3rd Jun 18, 10:19 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    interestedinsavings
    Anyone who was sold these heaters on the basis of them being storage heaters or on the basis of them reducing bills should have a case for mis-selling. I'm not sure how many advertising standards rulings it takes before further action is taken but they now have 7 full rulings and 9 informally resolved cases listed on the advertising standards website.
    • TeeJAy17
    • By TeeJAy17 6th Jun 18, 10:10 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    TeeJAy17
    I had the Fischer guy turn up and he was very honest. He claimed the heater would store heat for around 45 - 60 minutes, he said the main thing is the remote thermostat in each room. He left after 20 minutes or so.


    I was a little annoyed that the woman who first booked the visit had not listened to what I said about long term storage and, by booking the appointment, had wasted both mine and the rep's time
    • racey
    • By racey 6th Jun 18, 10:30 AM
    • 150 Posts
    • 56 Thanks
    racey
    Their website calls them "electric heaters" now. It states they are "able to warm the same room space as an outdated 3.4kW night storage heater".
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 6th Jun 18, 12:56 PM
    • 3,385 Posts
    • 1,854 Thanks
    lstar337
    Their website calls them "electric heaters" now. It states they are "able to warm the same room space as an outdated 3.4kW night storage heater".
    Originally posted by racey
    (at 3x the cost.)
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 12th Jun 18, 2:33 PM
    • 3,916 Posts
    • 2,468 Thanks
    matelodave
    I've just got a flyer through the door - they are now called "Dynamic Fischer Elektrostore radiators"
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • Gerry G1936
    • By Gerry G1936 6th Jul 18, 11:41 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Gerry G1936
    COST of installation? Fischer radiator.
    I have spent a fair time searching and do not have even a basic cost of one radiator. Can anyone help?
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 6th Jul 18, 12:59 PM
    • 27,550 Posts
    • 13,519 Thanks
    Cardew
    I have spent a fair time searching and do not have even a basic cost of one radiator. Can anyone help?
    Originally posted by Gerry G1936

    Welcome to the forum.


    I believe the price is quoted after a salesman has visited. These are some posts from 2016:

    I've only just found this forum.
    I have a 3 bed, terraced, x council house, with 7, old storage heaters, that need replacing. 2 Large and 5 small. Wanted 3 large and 4 small.
    Just had a staggering quote. We guessed before hand about 4,500 to 6,000. .
    The Quote. . 10,400. An average of 1,486 EACH. And the FREE heating survey was awful, hard sell, no answers to direct questions, and lots of jargon, and science, that I'm sure was supposed to sound impressive, and I wasn't supposed to understand, just be dumbly impressed.
    I asked for no silly gimmicks during the survey, but I got nothing but that.
    Because I said I had 2 quotes already, and wouldn't tell him who with, he managed to put a slur on the products and services of every company he could think of.
    I'm totally sceptical of any company that is scared to tell you the price indication of their products.
    And he tried to give me a discount, if I put the deposit down NOW. . .NO WAY. Very poor conduct of the guy on the survey. . which was actually a Sales man. . Who was more like a dodgy car sales man. . Honestly "insert name" I wouldn't lie to you. . . "insert name" I only am passionate because our product is so much superior and I believe that you need it "insert name" . . .Blah blah. He repeated my name in EVERY sentence for 2 hours. I can just imagine the sales course he went on. Worst 2 hours of my life.
    I knew I wouldn't use them 2 mins after him arriving. . Before knowing the price.
    It is a good product, but not worth the hilarious price.
    I just want to add, that I made it quite clear that I wanted night storage heaters before booking my quote/sales appointment, as that is what I have now. They said yes correct. However the sales guy, tried to insist that I would need to change off of E7, because these Fischer heaters are NOT totally night storage heater, and DO continue to use electric during the day. Saying that even after I did this I'd be saving on electric. . I'm not so sure. My current antique night storage heaters are not expensive to run on E7.









    I was curious about this company so got them to come around and give us a quote. They were very pleasant people, as you'd expect, and not particularly pushy. However, to install 3 radiators in one room (as a trial, so we could see for ourselves how good they were, at a "45% discount"), they were quoting at nearly 4k. For one room (and not our largest by a long long way)!

    That buys an awful lot of heating oil, or indeed a cheap electric heater and plenty of electricity.

    At that kind of price I don't know how anyone would even contemplate them as an option, though to be fair they might be more suitable for heating a small conservatory or the like.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 6th Jul 18, 1:02 PM
    • 8,848 Posts
    • 10,186 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    I have spent a fair time searching and do not have even a basic cost of one radiator. Can anyone help?
    Originally posted by Gerry G1936
    Fischer are very reticent to publish prices but will send a salesman round to your home. Rough estimate is 2000 per heater.

    Aeroflow radiators are much the same thing and their prices are here
    http://www.shop.electrorad.co.uk/aeroflow-dynamic-storage-radiators-1-c.asp

    Or you can buy a 2 kW convector heater from Argos for 25.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 6th Jul 18, 3:01 PM
    • 3,916 Posts
    • 2,468 Thanks
    matelodave
    For anyone thats interested the Rointe heaters (which are posh oil filled rads) are about 550 to 680 for a 1.6kw rad - they don't seem to do a 2kw one.

    A not quite so posh 2kw oil filled rad from Argos will cost you 49.95 (and you'll get 400 watts more heat from it- so it will warm you faster or you wont need as many.



    As the advert says - you do the maths
    Last edited by matelodave; 06-07-2018 at 3:06 PM.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • Andrew&Claudia
    • By Andrew&Claudia 6th Jul 18, 6:51 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Andrew&Claudia
    I don't know if anyone else has posted about proper modern Night storage heaters?

    By this I mean the likes of the Dimplex "quantum" range which Dimplex (I imagine a reputable company) claim will produce savings of "up to" (my quote marks) 20%.
    They do this by what I assume is a very cleverly designed insulation around the heat storage core which appears to be the standard iron oxide ceramic material as afar as I can ascertain. The heat is then delivered on demand by the built in thermostat and quiet running fan when needed. That's the principle as I understand it.
    We did much research when considering replacing our old and worn out storage heaters which were really in a bad way with the control flaps not moving properly amongst other age related issues. The Fischer heaters were initially considered but I decided there was a distinct whiff of the farmyard about fischers claims and anything that runs as an "always on" default seems to me to not take advantage of night rate E7 juice.
    So we got several quotes for supply and installation of dimplex quantum heaters, that in itself was interesting as the prices quoted varied by rather large amounts, so folks do shop around and make sure it's a reputable electrical contractor too.
    The upshot is that after a full year of use of the dimplex Quantums, going by our last 2 full years of Electricity bills comparing the off peak kwH use (not price) my personal calculation was a 14% reduction at least, so in that regard they are more efficient (15771 kwh in 2017 compared with 13558 this year). I didn't think they were working when first switched on as the radiator body was quite cool to the touch but when the timer kicked in and the fan started to push the hot air out I realised they were working! I figure as a rough estimate they will pay for themselves in around 8 years which I feel is a reasonable return assuming a 15 to 20 year service life. They certainly do hold their stored heat well during the day and usually its around 11pm before we notice any noticeable reduction in output, depending on how cold it is outside and how long we have had the fan running in a particular room. There's also a useful "boost" option on them. This works either by blowing air through the stored heat bricks or if insufficient stored heat there is an auxiliary heating element that allows them to work like a normal fan heater. We have had to use that occasionally, but this was on some very cold days when the outside temperature dipped into minus double figures. Not for regular use then but nice to know we have the option to give a quick if expensive boost to the room heat.

    It's still an expensive way to heat a home but it compares very favourably with oil and LPG and these heaters do seem to be so much more controllable than the clunky old night storage jobs of yore.

    I'll also add that our home has been well insulated in the cavity walls etc so we do try to minimise heat losses and I also reduced the thermostat settings to as low a comfort level as i could, something not possible with the old mechanical controls.
    But on balance I would recommend this sort of heater as a replacement option for old worn out or hard to control night storage heaters. At an installation cost comparable or cheaper to any of the hyped up alternatives, backed up with a guarantee from a reputable manufacturer.
    I have no financial or other interest in either the makers or installers of Quantums and there are similar heaters from other manufacturers. My advice though is to shop around and don't be afraid to haggle a bit.

    And finally if you are still awake! All my comments are based on SENSIBLE use of the heating in order not to waste money on expensive electricity.


    Andrew.
    • jk0
    • By jk0 6th Jul 18, 9:47 PM
    • 2,535 Posts
    • 25,660 Thanks
    jk0
    And finally if you are still awake! All my comments are based on SENSIBLE use of the heating in order not to waste money on expensive electricity.


    Andrew.
    Originally posted by Andrew&Claudia
    Thanks Andrew,

    I read all that, and am pleased to hear you saved on your night rate. May we know the difference in the day rate?
    • Andrew&Claudia
    • By Andrew&Claudia 6th Jul 18, 10:33 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Andrew&Claudia
    There hasn't been any difference that I can put down to the Quantums in the daytime consumption, but that wouldn't surprise me as after all these are night storage heaters. Our day consumption was lower than last year but again I put that down to pretty much 100% of our lighting being low energy LED lamps versus the old incandescent jobs. Overall though I was impressed with the way they hang on to the stored heat until needed and if you are out most of the day at work etc you might get a bigger saving than we have. We are retired and my missus is quite disabled meaning we do use the heating in the main living areas quite a lot. We've also indulged in a LPG fired gas fire installed in the old fireplace rather than the solid fuel open fire when we moved, this because she isn't able to tend a real fire so we opted for the convenience of the propane fired gas fire (just like a mains gas one) and took that higher running cost on the chin. That's worked out at roughly 200 a year to run but I wouldn't really know how that compares with an electric fire. Someone here will likely know how to do that. What we have noticed is that we tend to only run the gas fire when its either really cold in midwinter or for a quick heat fix as the lounge warms up very quickly being a small 15ft square room with good cavity wall insulation etc.
    Hope that helps you. I realise everyone has different heating needs and habits that alter what may be appropriate.

    Andrew
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 7th Jul 18, 1:43 PM
    • 6,420 Posts
    • 4,821 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    Andrew&Claudia

    Ta for your input.

    The Quantum is the only single NSH system is the best at retention though I don't agree with their claims of being better than all the others at savings of almost 30%. They are IMO however better at retention than their competitors and have an better than the others SAP rating. An open chimney can cost as much as 25% loss of heat and comfort, inserting a balloon in your chimney will cut this loss to almost zero.

    The on peak direct acting 13a 'boost' is at full price and can be a big user cost in the winter months a small extra secondary heater like a Quantum QM070 in the same room will mean storing an extra 11kWh suggest that the need for LPG should not be needed. Best of luck.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • Andrew&Claudia
    • By Andrew&Claudia 7th Jul 18, 2:50 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Andrew&Claudia
    Thanks Richie.
    A clarification. I thought I had mentioned that the boost element comes at the cost of peak rate daytime power unless used between 0030 and 0730 GMT (and how many of us are still up then?) so we are well aware of the extra cost but its no more than if we had used an auxiliary electric heater and we only really have needed the boost in times such as the "Beast for the east" etc when up here in the highest part of the pennines the temperature plummeted to minus double figures! That would stress any heating system I think.

    The point about the chimney is a good one but not relevant to us as we opted for the enclosed style of gas stove/fire which means the chimney is effectively sealed from the room and we have noticed the effiency improvement over the open fire effect gas fire we had in our old property.

    It's not just about heating on the cheap though is it? the gas fire looks nice in the fireplace even when not lit and as I said, we decided to take the extra fuel costs on the chin in exchange for the ease of use (disabled resident) and the aesthetic value as after all it is the room we use the most after the kitchen.


    Agreed with your comments about dimplex's claims on the savings of up to 30%, going by our economy7 consumption I'd say it was around 14% with the way we use them, which I'd still say isn't too shoddy and I'll repeat how impressed we are with their heat retention compared to our old thermally leaky storage heaters that made the house too warm at night and were usually cool by 6 pm when we needed to get a bit of warmth into the main living spaces.


    A point that I feel should be taken on board when considering a heating system is that on top of initial installation costs a normal oil or lpg fired boiler and radiator system or heat pump will need an annual service and associated maintenance costs for consumable spares and that can be quite expensive. Whereas electric heaters are pretty much maintenance free as there's no moving parts apart from the fan and as long as the modern electronic control systems integral with them don't fail there's nothing to need "servicing".

    This is just our experience and I do realise they wont suit everyone as there's never going to be "one solution fits all".


    But it's true that most of us can get our heating costs down by intelligent use and monitoring of thermostats etc. Most of us run our heating systems at least a couple of degrees too warm and you may or may not agree with me but its a lot cheaper to put a jumper or cardigan on etc than turn the stat up to 22C...!!!8230;!!!8230;!!!8230;!!!8230;.. If you haven't tried dropping the thermostat (and this goes for any heating method) a degree or 3 then try it and be surprised how much you save! and spend the difference on some sensible insulation if possible as not all houses are suited to extensive lagging especially very old properties that actually need a bit of ventilation to prevent nasty damp build up.
    • NickDavies
    • By NickDavies 9th Jul 18, 8:57 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    NickDavies
    Andrew - you might investigate moving to Economy 10 and an afternoon boost ceases to be a problem. Many suppliers simply charge their E7 tariff to E10 customers.



    See economy10.com
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 9th Jul 18, 12:03 PM
    • 6,420 Posts
    • 4,821 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    E10 is a non competitive cartel of all equally high priced 'capture' market and a mistake in my view.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • NickDavies
    • By NickDavies 9th Jul 18, 1:42 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    NickDavies
    Why do you say then?

    Eco7 Energy is currently one of the cheapest suppliers around, and apply their standard tarrif to E10 meters. Tonik are a good price too.
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 9th Jul 18, 2:33 PM
    • 6,420 Posts
    • 4,821 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    HiYa Nick, you are reading the internet, read the many thousands of actual real world experiences over many years of E10 users in this forum. E10 is 10 hours v 7 hours and an afternoon top up for which you pay extra the MPAN [separate supply number for each part of the meter] means additional wiring and CU changes.

    My point is you pay twice (1) a higher price, (2) you will almost never be able to benefit from switch to a cheaper supplier for the reasons I've given and (3) your supplier may well charge for a meter change [es] rather than combine the night / core counters ditto if you ever try to escape back to the competitive E7 - you choose my friend.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
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