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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Natasha
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Richard have a ring of truth?
    • #1
    • 2nd Jan 07, 6:18 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Richard have a ring of truth? 2nd Jan 07 at 6:18 PM
    This week's Money Moral Dilemma

    Sadly Richard's grandma has passed away, so he and his cousins (from the rich side of the family) have been given an equal share of everything. As the house is being sold and the proceeds divided, all the cousins agreed to go through it, taking any mementos they wanted. Richard took a battered old ring his gran used to wear, to give to his daughter. Yet when his wife saw it, she realised it wasn't costume jewellery, but real diamonds and worth about 8,000. Should Richard keep quiet or sell the ring and share the proceeds?

    Click reply to enter the money moral maze


    Please remember, be polite to other MoneySavers, even if you disagree with them


    Also read the last MMD: Should Jenny kick them out?

    PS. And just to confirm this is an entirely hypothetical situation. Each week in the email I will be asking those questions. And yes, the lack of detail, the phrasing, all of it is deliberate to invoke debate (nice debate too). Enjoy the money moral maze.

Page 1
  • Gabriel-Ernest
    • #2
    • 2nd Jan 07, 6:57 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Jan 07, 6:57 PM
    He should sell it and share the proceeds, so that the original agreement of equal shares can be met.
    Touch my food ... Feel my fork!
  • joanie6668
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 07, 1:18 AM
    ring of truth
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 07, 1:18 AM
    he should keep the ring happy new year martin
    • MJay
    • By MJay 4th Jan 07, 2:19 AM
    • 140 Posts
    • 237 Thanks
    MJay
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 07, 2:19 AM
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 07, 2:19 AM
    Nah!!! The others don't need any more cash or momentos... Let his daughter enjoy the ring, insure it and have it as a permanent "fallback" position from granny!!
    Older and growing
  • Jay-Jay
    • #5
    • 4th Jan 07, 2:42 AM
    • #5
    • 4th Jan 07, 2:42 AM
    He took the ring for his daughter, presumably as an heirloom and not to be flogged for profit. If he took it as a keepsake and is sure that his daughter will treasure it then of course he should keep it, it doesn't matter how much it's worth.

    If he's had it valued and intends to sell it for whatever reason then I think he's morally on dodgy ground.
    Just run, run and keep on running!

  • Rachel021967
    • #6
    • 4th Jan 07, 3:13 AM
    • #6
    • 4th Jan 07, 3:13 AM
    I don't think money comes into it. He took the ring to give to his daughter as a sentimental keepsake which would of probably delighted his grandmother. I think he should keep the ring for his daughter as a memory of her great grandmother.
    • sarahlouise210
    • By sarahlouise210 4th Jan 07, 3:39 AM
    • 3,163 Posts
    • 3,614 Thanks
    sarahlouise210
    • #7
    • 4th Jan 07, 3:39 AM
    • #7
    • 4th Jan 07, 3:39 AM
    I think he should keep the ring - who is to say that something one of the others took is not worth a lot of money??? Not sure about giving it to his daughter - what about the other cousins children ???? I would either keep it for much later on - or sell it and keep quiet. !!
    I have had brain surgery - sorry if I am a little confused sometimes
    • TheFaqqer
    • By TheFaqqer 4th Jan 07, 7:48 AM
    • 92 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    TheFaqqer
    • #8
    • 4th Jan 07, 7:48 AM
    • #8
    • 4th Jan 07, 7:48 AM
    Heart says "keep it" - he took it as an heirloom for his daughter (rather than taking something for himself), so give it to the daughter, insure it, and keep it safe.

    The question I would have would be about the inheritance tax that should be paid - if the estate is worth above the threshold then he has no choice but to declare it, and pay the appropriate level of tax on the item. Nothing to stop him still keeping the ring after that, but only out of his share of the estate.
    • Ebenezer_Screwj
    • By Ebenezer_Screwj 4th Jan 07, 8:19 AM
    • 420 Posts
    • 229 Thanks
    Ebenezer_Screwj
    • #9
    • 4th Jan 07, 8:19 AM
    Ring
    • #9
    • 4th Jan 07, 8:19 AM
    Well done on your inheritance, Richard. Keep the ring and keep quiet about it.
  • georgiasmum
    Keep it, don't sell it and be quiet about it!
  • victory
    Depends if he really needs the money and it is just sitting there waiting to be sold to cover his debts, living expenses etc, rather better to have it in the bank and being able to cover his debts now than they accumulate in interest if he actually has a way of reducing them. xxx
    • billshep
    • By billshep 4th Jan 07, 9:01 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    billshep
    Either keep it, as originally intended, for daughter, or sell it and offer to split proceeds.

    The question I would have would be about the inheritance tax that should be paid - if the estate is worth above the threshold then he has no choice but to declare it, and pay the appropriate level of tax on the item. Nothing to stop him still keeping the ring after that, but only out of his share of the estate.
    by TheFaqqer
    I'm sure that's technically correct, but the tax man is unlikely to find out, perhaps better not go into that debate any further...
  • boblevin
    Both schools of thought are valid - other factors are relevant and need to be considered in this dilemma.

    I would also ask who has valued the ring. As rings similar in appearance and quality may have a price tag of 8,000 in a jewellers window, however, its value to the jeweller if you asked him to buy it from you would be closer to 4,000. And remember, a ring selling in a jewellers for 8,000 includes VAT of 1,191.48.
  • HazelEyes
    Keep the ring for his daughter in memory of the great grandma she never knew.

    Might be worth asking the rest of the family if anything they took has turned out to be valuable. If she had a ring worth £8000 then they should take a second look at any old china etc.

    If he sells immediately I think he should offer to share the proceeds with the rest of the family.
    • Chocmonster7
    • By Chocmonster7 4th Jan 07, 9:39 AM
    • 2,305 Posts
    • 2,037 Thanks
    Chocmonster7
    Sell the ring but put the proceeds into a fund so that the daughter can use it later in life for something like a house deposit. I'm sure the Grandmother would approve of helping the child in that kind of way.
  • jessielet
    should Richard have a ring of truth?
    Well, if Richard is correct about his cousins being really wealthier than him, and if he is definitely sure that they would not need or miss the extra money--he should keep it.
    Also, it appears that everyone was asked to help themselves with what was left, so he is entitled to keep it anyway, without telling them the cost of the ring.
    Good luck to him.
    • esuhl
    • By esuhl 4th Jan 07, 9:42 AM
    • 8,421 Posts
    • 6,194 Thanks
    esuhl
    I agree with Jay-Jay. If the ring was taken to be sold, Richard should split the money, as he is morally obliged to split the estate based on the deceased's wishes.

    If the ring was taken as a memento for sentimental value, he may *legally* be required to adjust his share of the estate so it is equal in value to his cousins' share, but morally, I believe he should keep the ring as the estate has already been split, and it is impossible to attach a monetary value to sentimental objects. Who's to say that another cousin didn't also take something equally valuable?
  • jessielet
    should Richard have a ring of truth?
    Well, if Richard is correct about his cousins being really wealthier than him, and if he is definitely sure that they would not need or miss the extra money--he should keep it.
    Also, it appears that everyone was asked to help themselves with what was left, so he is entitled to keep it anyway, without telling them the cost of the ring.
    Good luck to him!
  • juliaw
    Keep the ring and say nothing, otherwise it will have to be sold and a relatively small amount of money shared out. Richard wanted the ring for his daughter, he was not trying to mislead anyone.
    • Lorian
    • By Lorian 4th Jan 07, 9:50 AM
    • 4,572 Posts
    • 2,628 Thanks
    Lorian
    I'm suprised the ring was still there.
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