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    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 27th Jun 11, 12:39 PM
    • 13,635 Posts
    • 8,643 Thanks
    arcon5
    • #2
    • 27th Jun 11, 12:39 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Jun 11, 12:39 PM
    The new setup that this group are using is as follows;

    Firstly - move offices - approximately 100 yards up the road - good thinking

    Secondly - banish old websites and start using new ones - free ones - and think they can't be traced - unfortunately for them we've traced them
    Originally posted by againstjpc
    These first two points are irrelevant. They could setup a new ltd company at the same address as the first if they wish. Just sign a new agreement with the landlord.

    Using free websites identical to the other -- they are probably free templates. Nothing illegal in that.

    When it comes to dealing with limited company formations, try not get whats illegal and whats unethical or immoral mixed up.


    Okay, so far we have determined they take your CC details, pass them on to other companies and charge your card. Okay thats fraudulent and breaching DPA. I doubt they are also PCI compliant...


    BUT............

    How are they scamming people? How are they getting the details in the first place? Start from the beginning so we can understand how they operate...
    Last edited by arcon5; 27-06-2011 at 12:41 PM.
    • paddyrg
    • By paddyrg 27th Jun 11, 2:45 PM
    • 13,114 Posts
    • 11,188 Thanks
    paddyrg
    • #3
    • 27th Jun 11, 2:45 PM
    • #3
    • 27th Jun 11, 2:45 PM
    BUT............

    How are they scamming people? How are they getting the details in the first place? Start from the beginning so we can understand how they operate...
    Originally posted by arcon5
    As threads keep getting pulled when details are mentioned (names, modalities, etc) I think againstjpc is being wise directing you to external sites which have far fuller details.
  • againstjpc
    • #4
    • 27th Jun 11, 2:49 PM
    • #4
    • 27th Jun 11, 2:49 PM
    Thanks Paddy - we have had 2 really good and lengthy threads, that have been pulled because the people in question send complaints in

    We have so far helped a few people get their money back and are looking for other people to help, which is why we find the threads useful.

    Also, the more people we find, the more evidence we are collating and sending through to relevant people
  • GomerPyle
    • #5
    • 30th Jun 11, 2:05 AM
    • #5
    • 30th Jun 11, 2:05 AM
    Having had two threads pulled all I will add to the discussion is that anyone who feels that their card has been charged improperly, or who believes that the facts have been misrepresented to them should make a claim against their card company. If they do not receive a satisfactory response they are then entitled to take the matter forward to the Financial Ombudsman Service and I will happily assist anyone with such a claim.

    Facts, evidence and names are elsewhere on the internet on a site unconnected and unassociated with this forum.

    If people knew their rights and took full advantage of them this would never happen.
  • GomerPyle
    • #6
    • 2nd Jul 11, 3:53 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Jul 11, 3:53 PM
    On a general note:

    Never ever give your card details to anyone over the telephone - and anyone calling you who asks for them is up to no good.

    My corner shop has a machine that means I never let go of the card and he never gets to know my pin number, so giving those details to a complete stranger over the phone is asking for trouble.

    It also means that they don't have an online facility to take card payments which is a major warning, as a properly secure website at least restricts usage to that company, whereas by verbally passing on details means it's being made available for multiple abuse and you have no control.

    There are a lot of questions to ask and methods of checking but the one thing you should do when asked to provide card details over the phone is put the phone down, having made clear you won't do business with them.
  • GomerPyle
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 11, 7:30 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Jul 11, 7:30 PM
    Again on a general note, I have received a reply to an enquiry that I addressed to the Financial Services Authority. I haven't yet read it in depth to absorb the content or underlying manner, as it is quite lengthy.

    It would not be appropriate for me to reproduce it here, though they appear to expect to receive my further response and submission which I will do so as I'm far from ignorant of the complexities involved. Indeed I see no complexity whatsoever.

    I'll stay in touch.
  • GomerPyle
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 11, 2:45 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 11, 2:45 PM
    I can't go into specifics or detail and I'm not being coy or a tease but my submission has been passed to the relevant department within the FSA and I have since made two further submissions including more information and confirming my knowledge, background and expertise.

    There is no margin for laxity in the application of current legislation and I would wish to be able to confirm that the same applies to observance, for the benefit of everyone.
  • GomerPyle
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 11, 10:37 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 11, 10:37 PM
    There is a point of extreme and fundamental importance here and I don't apologise for being implaccable in my approach. As well as my submissions to the FSA, I am aware of the involvement of other bodies, and I will not stop there.

    It is not enough for any body or organisation to obtain a consumer's card details, by any means, and feel that this is enough to justify any card charge(s), and the system is not intended to operate this way.

    If it is, then let's call a halt to any thought of doing away with payment by cheque and let's remain a backward nation as befits a country unable to regulate its payments systems.

    I'm shocked at some of the misinformed ignorant gobbledegook given as excuses to consumers as to why thoroughly justified claims aren't going to be met. I have the benefit of knowedge derived from a banking career to enable me to pursue any claim I have beyond this 'lazy inertia' but the system should not reserve proper functioning for ex-bankers.

    I can't guide every consumer with a justified claim through the FOS, but I'll make a good attempt if that's what it takes to make this rickety system work properly.

    If I don't comment for a while, it doesn't mean things aren't moving along.
  • GomerPyle
    I've made a significant breakthrough, which of course I can't detail in any fashion, but where my research is leading is quite fascinating.

    I haven't been able to write it up, but will be doing so in the next few days.
    • ellersb
    • By ellersb 21st Jul 11, 12:33 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    ellersb
    I've just been had by these swizzing arseholes. South East Gazette to the tune of 180. Paid on debit card, which I've now cancelled so the 'last three digits on the back' are different so hopefully they can't reuse my card.
    I've reported to TS for the good it'll do me.
    I can't believe I fell for it, I'm so gutted.
    • Azari
    • By Azari 21st Jul 11, 12:36 PM
    • 3,941 Posts
    • 6,164 Thanks
    Azari
    I've just been had by these swizzing arseholes. South East Gazette to the tune of 180. Paid on debit card, which I've now cancelled so the 'last three digits on the back' are different so hopefully they can't reuse my card.
    I've reported to TS for the good it'll do me.
    I can't believe I fell for it, I'm so gutted.
    Originally posted by ellersb
    What do you mean by 'had'?

    Have they made an unauthorised charge against your card?

    If so, simply tell the CC company and they will reverse it.
    • ellersb
    • By ellersb 21st Jul 11, 1:03 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    ellersb
    What do you mean by 'had'?

    Have they made an unauthorised charge against your card?

    If so, simply tell the CC company and they will reverse it.
    Originally posted by Azari
    No, just completely misold to me. My own fault for falling for the 'need artwork by end of today as it's printing tomorrow' crap and not giving myself time to research them properly.
    I've had no voucher copy to see the ad but can imagine its quality...and now my emails are bouncing back.
    I'm so cross at myself, but paid on debit not credit card, so I'm pretty sure there's nothing I can do.
  • GomerPyle
    I assure you that you can get your money back ellersb if you're prepared to make the effort.

    It won't cost you anything though it's a law of nature that card companies will perform with inbuilt inertia to your refund request.

    The only drawback is that your relationship with your bank may be diminsihed by your action, so that if you are beholding to them with regard to debt or overdrafts, then it's wise to be cautious.

    To be blunt and realistic, you can only enforce your legal rights if you are prepared to arm wrestle but the system should automatically allow anyone who feels that they have bee duped to obtain a refund, but it doesn't work like that, and some organisations are seeking to exploit deficiencies in the system.

    If you contact me via private message I can provide some guidance. I am constrained from speaking openly otherwise the thread is likely to be closed if I mention specific names, but a Google search will provide a lot of background information.

    Quite simply, if your situation with your bank allows, then showing that you are adamant in taking the matter to the FOS (a process that costs you nothing) they will make sure you get your money back.
  • GomerPyle
    Sticking to generalities it must be pointed out that though it is possible to establish a contract by phone, it fails if it involves misrepresentation and it is up to the person wishing to pursue its enforcement that a contract exists and didn't involve misrepresentation. The fact that the other party holds your card details doesn't remedy that defect.

    I'm out today but have a passage from the Card Association that supports that contention. I'll dig it out.

    Clearly people must be very cautious about giving their card details to anyone over the phone, but doing so doesn't leave you without a legal remedy, and it's not difficult or costly to pursue. Some card companies have a tendency to be stubborn and unhelpful, so you may have to be firm and dogged to succeed, but all is not lost by any means.
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