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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Archna
    • By MSE Archna 11th Dec 06, 12:29 PM
    • 1,874Posts
    • 6,140Thanks
    MSE Archna
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Janet pay for John?
    • #1
    • 11th Dec 06, 12:29 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Janet pay for John? 11th Dec 06 at 12:29 PM
    This week's Money Moral Dilemma


    Janet and John are at the early stages of dating. She's earning a six figure city salary, he's works for a homeless charity. She loves fine dining, so books top restaurants which can cost 100 a time and insists on paying as she knows he can't afford it. He feels uncomfortable with this, but when he broached the subject of going elsewhere she replied, "nice restaurants are my hobby and I want to share it with you, i know you love the food." Where do they go from here?


    Click reply to enter the money moral maze

    Please remember, be polite to other MoneySavers, even if you disagree with them


    Also read last week's MMD: Would you lend to a friend in need?


    PS. And just to confirm this is an entirely hypothetical situation. Each week in the email I will be asking those questions. And yes, the lack of detail, the phrasing, all of it is deliberate to envoke debate (nice debate too). Enjoy the money moral maze.



    Last edited by MSE Archna; 12-12-2006 at 4:25 PM.
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Page 1
  • justtoclarify
    • #2
    • 13th Dec 06, 12:44 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Dec 06, 12:44 AM
    If the gender was reversed would this dilemma even be considered?

    If Janet or John invites the other for a meal, then the person doing the inviting should be prepared to pay for both regardless of venue.

    John should be happy that although Janet prefers fine dining that she is happy to pay for her preference. It would be false for John to insist on paying "his" share if it was beyond his means.

    Anyway bottom line paying for things is not a competition, if you are in receipt of genuine generousity, be graceful and say thank you. If possible find some reciprocal activity that you enjoy that can also be shared.
    Last edited by justtoclarify; 13-12-2006 at 12:50 AM.
  • meher
    • #3
    • 13th Dec 06, 3:16 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Dec 06, 3:16 AM
    This week's Money Moral Dilemma


    Janet and John are at the early stages of dating. She's earning a six figure city salary, he's works for a homeless charity. She loves fine dining, so books top restaurants which can cost £100 a time and insists on paying as she knows he can't afford it. He feels uncomfortable with this, but when he broached the subject of going elsewhere she replied, "nice restaurants are my hobby and I want to share it with you, i know you love the food." Where do they go from here?
    by MSE Archna
    Everyone has self respect and my belief is that integrity certainly shouldn't be questioned. He wouldn't be the kind who would really enjoy his meal when it fetches the kind of exorbitant bills consdiering he works with people who are not too privileged in life. Perhaps John could tell her that his chosen career is to work for the homeless and it doesn't justify when he has a meal at such fine dining places. I should think it's perfectly reasonable to ask of her to share his interests in life too. They could either cook a meal together at their place or go out wherever he could afford to pay.
    • giverny
    • By giverny 13th Dec 06, 4:19 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    giverny
    • #4
    • 13th Dec 06, 4:19 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Dec 06, 4:19 AM
    Can I have Janet's phone number ?
    • N9eav
    • By N9eav 13th Dec 06, 6:05 AM
    • 4,651 Posts
    • 26,401 Thanks
    N9eav
    • #5
    • 13th Dec 06, 6:05 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Dec 06, 6:05 AM
    If Joh is genuine then there is no problem. Janet will just enjoy sharing her wealth with him and enjoy the company and whatever else.....
    If John takes it for granted and becomes a leach, then well ... he well may find himself looking for a new date
    NO to pasty tax We won!!!! Just shows that people power works! Don't be apathetic to your cause!
  • BFG
    • #6
    • 13th Dec 06, 7:44 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Dec 06, 7:44 AM
    Ditch her.
  • BFG
    • #7
    • 13th Dec 06, 7:44 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Dec 06, 7:44 AM
    Does Janet have an even richer sister for me?
  • zena2105
    • #8
    • 13th Dec 06, 8:09 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Dec 06, 8:09 AM
    I think John should be man enough to let Janet pay, but Janet should also allow John to take her somewhere not as expensive, you can get a good meal without having to pay silly prices.....compromise is the key.....
  • merdekaorang1125
    • #9
    • 13th Dec 06, 9:39 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Dec 06, 9:39 AM
    The ability to graciously accept an expensive gift while in the position of not being able to respond in like manner is extremely difficult. Where it is given with affection and no strings one would be churlish to decline. The disparity between occupations is really not an issue, I think. However, John may well be correct in pointing out to the lady - as he may well have done already - that he feels uncomfortable in this position. She can then make the decision to accept or decline John's approach to dining expenditure. If she is not willing to do this I would be questioning the reason for non-cooperation which, of course, leads one down the path of considering why it is too onerous for Jane to share equally. So I might dump her.
    Waddle you do eh?
  • BertDavey
    I think the moral dilemma isn't really a dilemma. Its part of the dynamic of their relationship and you need to know far more about each personality to suggest anything.

    For me however, John should accept this generosity with gratitude, and perhaps even enjoy something he would not otherwise be able to. Janet should be mindful of his feelings, but if she can afford to treat him, i can understand why she would see it as strange to choose maccy d's over posh nosh.

    Not on this kind of extreme, but i know many people who earn quite different salaries and everyone behaves differently. Some put the difference away for a rainy day and they live according to one persons means, others freely share the wealth and let their loved ones enjoy the fruits of their labour.

    Pride in ones efforts is a good thing, pride to the point of spiting yourself is a bad thing. IMHO.

    Rob
  • kruss
    john and jannet are clearly quite different people while he cares for people in need, she wastes money on things that are unimportant.

    So in my opinion being a similar type of person to john this type of relationship will not work. He needs to find someone else whos none materialistic and puts others before themselves like he does.

    The whole reason i look at this website is because i try to do exactly that and 100 for a meal.....................I could easily eat for 6 weeks on that.
    • skylight
    • By skylight 13th Dec 06, 11:12 AM
    • 10,424 Posts
    • 16,875 Thanks
    skylight
    Having been in Johns situation, you feel like crap.

    I dated a city finance director (the kind of guy with several cars and a porchse just for city driving.......) and we got on great. We were perfectly suited - although at the time I was a single Mum with a little girl (my eldest was 2ish and her Dad and I had seperated at that point - as it turned out for 3 years).

    I was viewed by his friends/family and other work colleagues (his and mine) as a gold digger - the fact I took nothing from him made me mad! But he was a little more considerate than Janet and didn't force me to go to expensive restaurants so I could pay my way (I was a good girl then with very little debts!!) But he did natuarally pay for most things. Things got silly when he offered to start paying for my petrol to come and visit him.

    Despite the fact that we were very well suited and got on like a house on fire, the pressure we both faced from family members about "different worlds" (WTF!! the only difference was money) We lasted about a year.

    Its not just the relationship - but perceptions of those around you. And that can be the biggest pressure (not just the pride thing!)
    • kit34
    • By kit34 13th Dec 06, 11:18 AM
    • 2,899 Posts
    • 87,607 Thanks
    kit34
    i think john should take janet to see what he does for a living then maybe she will understand why her spending that much money on a meal is hard for him to accept given he works with people who are very poor ,
  • coolpaprika
    How did they meet? They must have something in common for the relationship to get to this point. How many times have they been for £100 meals?
    Perhaps it's a case of she keeps him going and refreshed so he can go back to the harrowing task of being of real help to those in need. We all give & take in relationships. There must be something that each is offereing the other & the money's getting in the way because it's taken on a diproportionate importance.

    On the other hand she may be using it as a power tool. Let's hope not
  • Pandora123
    John should ask himself WHY he feels uncomfortable with letting Janet pay for expensive meals. If it is because he thinks fine dining is "wasting" money or goes against his ethics and what he believes in, then he should ask himself if he is comfortable sharing his time with a person whose values perhaps do not match very well with his own. OTOH, maybe Janet and John DO share similar values, and Janet's restaurant splurges are an exception to her normally selfless and giving spirit (certainly her willingness to treat John is evidence of this!)

    If John is uncomfortable because he was brought up to believe the man should look after the woman in a relationship, then he has to decide if perhaps it is time to discard stereotypes and enjoy the unconventional relationship on the terms it is being offered.

    John could reciprocate by spending TIME (rather than money) cooking Janet a meal in his home. So while the 100 restaurant meal represents (say) three hours' wages for Janet (after tax), John may spend three hours cooking a delicious meal for Janet. Either way, they can enjoy each others' company and as long as they are both comfortable with this arrangement, more power to them! It is difficult enough finding nice people to share your time with, without worrying about who pays for what.

    I want to move to theory. Everything works in theory.
  • Gearoi
    Any logic applied to dinner should apply to the house, the kids' clothes, the school that the kids go to (private maybe), and basically ALL spending.
    • skintmostofthetime
    • By skintmostofthetime 13th Dec 06, 1:31 PM
    • 294 Posts
    • 204 Thanks
    skintmostofthetime
    A compromise is called for here - SHE takes him to places she likes but in turn must accept that HE will take her to places he likes - this will either solve the problem or end it
    • scotsbob
    • By scotsbob 13th Dec 06, 4:13 PM
    • 4,462 Posts
    • 6,958 Thanks
    scotsbob
    He told her he is uncomfortale, she doesn't listen to him, time to ditch the !!!!!
    • sablade
    • By sablade 13th Dec 06, 4:28 PM
    • 397 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    sablade
    compromise or split, or he should enjoy her generosity, how can he expect to be the traditional man in the relationship if he earns little money, they to me dont really sound compatible and |i think this is the tip of the iceberg with cracks starting to form
    If you dont ask for discount you don't get discount
  • oreges
    As its early days in there relationship I think its too early for John to impose his will on his new love. Go with the flow untill such times as it becomes a barrier between them and then decide what road to take.
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