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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Natasha
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Would you lend to a friend in need?
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 06, 6:15 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Would you lend to a friend in need? 4th Dec 06 at 6:15 PM
    This week's Money Moral Dilemma


    Jane's best friend since childhood has always been terrible with cash; and now she's got into serious debt and is in danger of losing her home. She's asked Jane for a loan of 10,000; money she can afford to lend without a problem, but can't afford to lose. They've always been through thick and thin together and supported each other in everything. Should Jane lend the cash?


    Click reply to enter the money moral maze


    Please remember, be polite to other MoneySavers, even if you disagree with them

    Also read last week's MMD: Would you take the job?


    PS. And just to confirm this is an entirely hypothetical situation. Each week in the email I will be asking those questions. And yes, the lack of detail, the phrasing, all of it is deliberate to envoke debate (nice debate too). Enjoy the money moral maze.



Page 1
    • trippy
    • By trippy 6th Dec 06, 1:59 PM
    • 524 Posts
    • 179 Thanks
    trippy
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 06, 1:59 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Dec 06, 1:59 PM
    Yes I would. That's what friends are for and it would be nice to be in a position to be able to help someone really in need. It's a no-brainer for me. Do you want 10k or no friends?
  • Gabriel-Ernest
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 06, 2:06 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Dec 06, 2:06 PM
    I would, but only on condition that we address the 'bad with money' habit that got her into the mess in the first place.
    Touch my food ... Feel my fork!
  • Alechjo
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 06, 2:07 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Dec 06, 2:07 PM
    I agree that you have to help your best friends, but since it is mentioned that she was always terrible with cash, it is worth trying to have some degree of control, let her understand that it is serious, and offer some help with financial matters. Especially convincing when you are a moneysaver and lending 10k! Do it right and you can help your friend not only in this emergency situation, but long-term as well.
    • RenStar
    • By RenStar 6th Dec 06, 2:27 PM
    • 217 Posts
    • 128 Thanks
    RenStar
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 06, 2:27 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Dec 06, 2:27 PM
    I'm sorry I'm going to have to be a bit mean here and say no, she shouldn't. I truely believe that you should never lend out more than you can afford to lose and it states clearly that Jane cannot afford to lose the 10K. If Jane's friend is terrible with money then Jane should offer her to help to address this before even considering lending her money. Whilst I agree losing your home can be traumatic, it's not life or death (in which case I would willingly give the money as a gift) but perhaps Janes' friend needs a little bit of a wake up call to sort out the mess that's got her in this situation in the first place.

    I've recently had a real life dilema almost identical to this and it was an agonising decision to say no. I'll admit the friendship isn't probably as close as it was before but they did manage to sort themselves out for the better long term without my loan and I beleive they're a much better person for it. I personally think the sacrifice was worth making, but everyone is different.

    Just my two pennies worth....

    Ren
  • hotchokl8
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 06, 4:04 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Dec 06, 4:04 PM
    No, i don't think she should. At the end of the day her best friend is in this situation through debts she can't afford to pay, what's to say she will pay her best friend back? If the money was for a worthy cause, eg for medical care then i agree the money should be lent, THAT'S what friends are for.
    Friends are not a solution to your own debt problems. It is your own responsibilty to manage your finances and keep above board.

    If someone has 10,000 saved up it reflects on them as a person- maybe Jane managed to save up because she opted for the nights in front of the tele rather thatn goin out on the town, or buyin those sexy boots once they were up at sale price-rather than blowing the goods on stuff they can't afford and buying on credit. Jane should refer her friend to a trustworthy financial advisor, or a professional in the field who can help her with her financial problems.

    After all, if you're friend committed a crime, would you serve their prison sentence for them?....
    Everything in life is a paradox. The more you want approval, the more you become a person that other people don't want to approve of, the less you care about whether you get approval, the more you get.
  • beccolina
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 06, 5:30 PM
    when things go wrong
    • #7
    • 6th Dec 06, 5:30 PM
    Consider this: when things go horribly wrong you are more likely to lose the friednship than by saying no.

    saying no does not mean you cannot sit down together and look at other options and see if you can help her get a loan elsewhere, snowball credit cards, remortgage and other appropriate solutions.

    R
  • Lawnmower Man
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 06, 5:39 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Dec 06, 5:39 PM
    The money should not be loaned to her friend. Odds, in my opinion are more likely that she will ever get it back which would put the friendship under greater strain than a blank refusal.

    I have experince of lending far smaller amounts than this (up to £1000) and even when friends came into money I am still awaiting payback despite numerous reminders.

    Brother also loaned money to best mate when he moved abroad. Is now settled and financially stable but not a dickie bird from him in communication let alone repayment of borrowed monies.

    Some friends, whether they realise it, seem to take for granted the monies earned through your own hard work, as a source of income to them.

    Mum has loaned to her own brother, without a seconds delay, but he never fufils his promise of repayment, and she really cannot afford it.

    The friend in trouble in this tale shouldn't even put her best friend on the spot for asking for loan.

    Cheers

    Lawnmower Man
    • Psykicpup
    • By Psykicpup 6th Dec 06, 5:52 PM
    • 1,391 Posts
    • 1,733 Thanks
    Psykicpup
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 06, 5:52 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 06, 5:52 PM
    No I wouldn't lend her the money but I would try to help in other ways maybe free babysitting so extra hours can be worked that sort of thing & I would definately send her here!
    I THINK is a whole sentence, not a replacement for I Know




    Supermarket Rebel No 19
  • sjc
    I wouldn't lend her the 10K in one hit, I would want to sit down review the situation in detail, incomings V outgoings see where the immediate problems were and address them. Work out a budget and control it with her.

    I would make sure she didn't lose the house, but I wouldn't want to give her 10K in one hit, her to blow it and be in the same situation in X months.

    I would also be looking at including a repayment plan to me for the loan as part of the budget so you can see the money coming back in.
    Cheers
    Steve
  • francmarie
    lending money to friends
    I wouldn't lend it.
    I would give it - as much as I could afford and live without.
    If I had money and a friend needed it I would give it to them.
    I know from past experience when I was a student many years ago, that when anyone lends money they keep waiting for it to be repaid. This causes tension in the friendship and puts pressure on someone who is already in a difficult situation.
    If you give it as a gift and tell the person there is no need to return it - ask them to do the same if they are ever in a position to help someone else. If this doesn't feel comfortable, you shouldn't even think of lending it. You aren't up to coping with the loss of the money and you will destroy your friendship with the negative feelings you have. Why not give them some of the money and let them try and borrow the rest elsewhere?
    • Chuffy
    • By Chuffy 6th Dec 06, 9:47 PM
    • 1,248 Posts
    • 309 Thanks
    Chuffy
    I work with a debt worker and he sees many many clients like Jane who've taken out arrangements like this and the arrangement to repay has fallen through.
    People like Jane often end up being sucked into the debt cycle along with her friend.
    Jane just becomes another creditor to add to the bankruptcy - she could put a charge on her mates house though... How's that for trusting?
  • sheenaf
    Been there, done that, lost the friends. Unable or unwilling to pay back they avoid you and are totally embarrassed if you meet up at a mutual friends. If like Jane's friend they have always mismanaged money you would only be feeding their habit, like giving drink to an alcoholic. Much better to give advice and practical help. If the house has to go then help her find another that she can afford and so on. Totally different if some financial disaster strikes a normally thrifty person (like the Farepak folk or someone made unexpectedly redundant) - then a true friend will give (not lend) as much as they can. I have twice managed to give money anonomously in such situations. Result? my friends got the cash, I got the satisfaction of seeing them out of their difficulty and shared their joy at the unexpected windfall, someone else got the credit (so what -its just like Santa) but most important I kept my friends without any feeling of being beholden to mar the friendship.
  • everythingblogcast
    I would not lend the money as you hear too many storiess about friend not payin the money back.
    • mademoiselle
    • By mademoiselle 6th Dec 06, 11:04 PM
    • 390 Posts
    • 1,256 Thanks
    mademoiselle
    I think that the initial reply should be "no", because this person really needs to ascertain exactly what kind of 'friendship' this is, before entertaining the idea of lending money.

    The length of time they have been friends is immaterial - we can ignore the obvious in friendships, to avoid hard truths.

    Like a couple of the other posters, this 'dilemma' is ringing familiar bells for me. I too had a friend of many years standing, always terrible with money etc. It became a habit for me to pay for meals and trips out because she was always 'short'... and to do the driving, to run errands, to buy bits of her shopping, to loan her goods that were never returned. I couldn't tell you where the line was crossed exactly...but somewhere, along the way, my baling her out became less of a favour and more of an expectation on her part. She was so confident that I would always bale her out, she would turn out to events like 'dinner and the movies', with no cash on her!

    Despite being 'too poor' to repay small debts, she took herself off on two holidays this year - one to Spain, one to the Caribbean. I was left to see to her cats - she being 'too poor' to put them in a cattery. Of course she left scant food, litter, or other supplies; the daily 12 mile round trip I had to do, to see to them, was overlooked too. I estimate it cost me about 100, all round, in cash; and hours of my time.

    When she told me a few weeks later that she would be called away on business and that I would 'need' to look after her cats twice a week for three months, I said "no". I didn't say it nastily; I sought out details of cat sitting services for her, I made alternative suggestions. But she broke the friendship there and then - leaving me with the feeling that I had been used, and quite possibly appreciated less as a friend and more as someone who was a soft touch.

    Lending money and friendships don't mix.
  • dogsbreath
    No, definitely not. I have done it twice, a few thousand and a few hundred. I never got the money back. If you really must do it get it written up by a solicitor.
    • Fran
    • By Fran 6th Dec 06, 11:54 PM
    • 11,017 Posts
    • 6,469 Thanks
    Fran
    I seem to have stumbled into a better off thread by mistake! I thought it was going to be "would you lend your friend 50?"
    Torgwen.......... ...........

    I'm a volunteer Board Guide on Techie, Benefits & Employment, Energy, Small biz & Charities and Redundancy boards to help them run smoothly & I can move posts & threads but don't read them all. Dealing with illegal or inappropriate posts is not part of my role. Please report them to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Views are mine not official MoneySavingExpert ones.
    • Mics_chick
    • By Mics_chick 7th Dec 06, 12:18 AM
    • 11,688 Posts
    • 11,566 Thanks
    Mics_chick
    The answer is a no-brainer to me - a straight NO if she can't afford to lose it then she shouldn't lend it, especially in this case because I would see it going down the black hole along with the rest and it's alot of money to lose. A few hundred maybe £10,000 definitely not!
    Last edited by Mics_chick; 07-12-2006 at 12:23 AM.
    You should never call somebody else a nerd or geek because everybody (even YOU !!!) is an
    "anorak" about something whether it's trains, computers, football, shoes or celebs
    • Mics_chick
    • By Mics_chick 7th Dec 06, 12:18 AM
    • 11,688 Posts
    • 11,566 Thanks
    Mics_chick
    If she agreed to go to CAB and get an IVA or other solution in place then maybe - but that's a big maybe...!
    Last edited by Mics_chick; 07-12-2006 at 12:25 AM.
    You should never call somebody else a nerd or geek because everybody (even YOU !!!) is an
    "anorak" about something whether it's trains, computers, football, shoes or celebs
    • Mics_chick
    • By Mics_chick 7th Dec 06, 12:18 AM
    • 11,688 Posts
    • 11,566 Thanks
    Mics_chick
    I've not gone mad - the same post been added 3 times so I've editted 2 so I'm not repeating repeating myself!
    Last edited by Mics_chick; 07-12-2006 at 12:25 AM.
    You should never call somebody else a nerd or geek because everybody (even YOU !!!) is an
    "anorak" about something whether it's trains, computers, football, shoes or celebs
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