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  • FIRST POST
    trevbob
    Purchasing - Extension, no planning permission or building regs approval
    • #1
    • 13th Nov 06, 3:57 PM
    Purchasing - Extension, no planning permission or building regs approval 13th Nov 06 at 3:57 PM
    I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere but I'd be grateful for direct confimation. Near exchange on a purchase. Vendors' side has not yet provided any planning consents or building regs approval for a small extension built approximately 1990. This may or may not have been before their ownership. Surveyor advises don't proceed until resolved.

    Now the paperwork may turn up but I'm not hopeful. So can vendors purchase insurance which will cover me against extansion not having been built to building standards e.g. inadequate foundations. Can Council come after me if I do purchase? My other concern is that this may impact my ability to put on conservatory etc in the future as footprint capcity will already have been utilised.

    Obviously don't want to be in a position where my ability to resell is impacted by this issue.

    thanks
Page 1
    • notakid
    • By notakid 13th Nov 06, 4:10 PM
    • 9,345 Posts
    • 27,490 Thanks
    notakid
    • #2
    • 13th Nov 06, 4:10 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Nov 06, 4:10 PM
    Hi
    yes there is insurance available to cover you if a problem occurs also if the extention was built in the 1990's I think you are pretty safe. Speak to your solictor in regards to this as they will have much more of complete picture.
    But if ever I stray from the path I follow
    Take me down to the English Channel
    Throw me in where the water is shallow And then drag me on back to shore!
    'Cos love is free and life is cheap As long as I've got me a place to sleep
    Clothes on my back and some food to eat I can't ask for anything more
    • Debt_Free_Chick
    • By Debt_Free_Chick 13th Nov 06, 4:18 PM
    • 13,149 Posts
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    Debt_Free_Chick
    • #3
    • 13th Nov 06, 4:18 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Nov 06, 4:18 PM
    Surveyor advises don't proceed until resolved.
    by trevbob
    Why? What problems does the solicitor envisage?



    So can vendors purchase insurance which will cover me against extansion not having been built to building standards e.g. inadequate foundations.
    Possibly - but what are you asking them to insure? It's been standing for 16 years ..... what do you want to insure against? :confused:

    Can Council come after me if I do purchase?
    For lack of planning permission? No - they are time-barred and cannot enforce once the structure has been in place for 4 years.

    My other concern is that this may impact my ability to put on conservatory etc in the future as footprint capcity will already have been utilised.
    You are talking about Permitted Development. Even if they had got PP, this might have used up the Permitted Development rights anyway. Permitted Development is quite limited and I wouldn't worry if it's been used up. It simply means that you need to apply for PP for any future development. So what? If it's a desirable development in line with the Local Development Framework and generally accepted planning guidance, you have nothing to worry about.

    Obviously don't want to be in a position where my ability to resell is impacted by this issue.
    Depends on your buyer. These things don't bother me. In fact, they seem to be the latest thing for solicitors to make money out of! And many of them don't know anything about Planning Laws!!!!!
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 13th Nov 06, 4:19 PM
    • 38,465 Posts
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    silvercar
    • #4
    • 13th Nov 06, 4:19 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Nov 06, 4:19 PM
    your surveyor should be able to comment on the quality of the build. if its been up since 1990, any problems would have shown themselves.

    As for planning permission, two options. Either it was within permitted development and PP wasn't required OR it was done without PP but 4 years has elapsed so the council can't order you to knock down.

    Building regs. If they didn't get a building regs certificate then, they won't be able to now. if it was built to the regs in force at the time, it is too late to get a cert now as these certs cannot be issued retrospectively. To comply with current regs is probably not possible.

    conservatories don't generally require PP. If it impacts on your footprint to extend, that is because you already have the permitted extension - that's life I'm afraid. it wouldn't prevent you are applying for PP for your new extension though.

    Indemnity insurance just covers you incase you are required to do anything because the PP wasn't obtained originally. Not worth the paper its written on IMHO for a 1990 extension, for the reasons outlined above.
  • mrsc
    • #5
    • 14th Nov 06, 9:07 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Nov 06, 9:07 AM
    We have the same problems as well, the property we are buying has a single storey rear extension done in 1979 and a loft conversion (into 2 bedrooms) done in 1980 when this was done an internal wall was also removed.

    At the moment (MIGHT find out more today) our vendor has no supporting paperwork other than plans for the work, our Solicitor thinks we need to go down the indemnity route (but I called the planning office weeks ago and found out there was no planning permission - hey ho)

    We still want to proceed with the purchase but I am concerned what would happen if we sold in the future but at the same time part of me doesn't care because after this move I don't plan on ever moving again!
    House purchase completed 6th December whole process took 4 months.

    Hang in there everyone it is worth it
    • carrielouise80
    • By carrielouise80 14th Nov 06, 9:43 AM
    • 138 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    carrielouise80
    • #6
    • 14th Nov 06, 9:43 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Nov 06, 9:43 AM
    I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere but I'd be grateful for direct confimation. Near exchange on a purchase. Vendors' side has not yet provided any planning consents or building regs approval for a small extension built approximately 1990. This may or may not have been before their ownership. Surveyor advises don't proceed until resolved.

    Now the paperwork may turn up but I'm not hopeful. So can vendors purchase insurance which will cover me against extansion not having been built to building standards e.g. inadequate foundations. Can Council come after me if I do purchase? My other concern is that this may impact my ability to put on conservatory etc in the future as footprint capcity will already have been utilised.

    Obviously don't want to be in a position where my ability to resell is impacted by this issue.

    thanks
    by trevbob
    in situations like this the vendors should pay for indemnity insurance to protect your interests. This is easy to do via the solicitors
    • Debt_Free_Chick
    • By Debt_Free_Chick 14th Nov 06, 9:47 AM
    • 13,149 Posts
    • 9,492 Thanks
    Debt_Free_Chick
    • #7
    • 14th Nov 06, 9:47 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Nov 06, 9:47 AM
    We have the same problems as well, the property we are buying has a single storey rear extension done in 1979 and a loft conversion (into 2 bedrooms) done in 1980 when this was done an internal wall was also removed.

    At the moment (MIGHT find out more today) our vendor has no supporting paperwork other than plans for the work, our Solicitor thinks we need to go down the indemnity route
    by mrsc
    Ask your solicitor "indemnity against what?" If the answer is "action by the Council for lack of planning permission" ask the solicitor "but isn't the Council time-barred from taking action after 4 years, under section 172(4) of the Town & Country Planning Act 1990? Can't we just apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness?"

    (but I called the planning office weeks ago and found out there was no planning permission - hey ho)
    It think this invalidates the indemnity insurance, so it won't now be available to you.

    We still want to proceed with the purchase but I am concerned what would happen if we sold in the future but at the same time part of me doesn't care because after this move I don't plan on ever moving again!
    Get a certificate of lawfulness. Have a look at the planning section on the local council website to see if there's something like this
  • ascollen
    • #8
    • 14th Nov 06, 9:50 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Nov 06, 9:50 AM
    Are there no approvals available or does the vendor simply not have them?

    we were in similar position when we bought our house 5 years ago. Vendor didn't have the paperwork, we managed to get some more money knocked off.
    I contacted the council direct and managed to get the original planning app documentation from microfilm. This is now safely esconced with my mortage lender.
  • mrsc
    • #9
    • 14th Nov 06, 10:42 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Nov 06, 10:42 AM
    This morning Vendors EA said she has paid for indemnity insurance and its on its way to our solicitor (she hasn't recieved it this morning). I'm confused to be honest as my Husband's Aunt and Uncle called the planning office and still managed to get indemnity insurance on the property they brought.
    House purchase completed 6th December whole process took 4 months.

    Hang in there everyone it is worth it
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 14th Nov 06, 10:57 AM
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    silvercar
    I'm confused to be honest as my Husband's Aunt and Uncle called the planning office and still managed to get indemnity insurance on the property they brought.
    If they tried to claim on it then they might find the insurer reluctant to pay out. But then again, I can't think of an instance when there could be a claim on an extension more than 4 years old. So in both cases all you have secured is peace of mind.
  • STAR_BUCK
    Hi

    I'm in the same boat. We're ready to exchange but there is a query regarding the conservatory and planning permission. The thing is that we're going to knock it down anyway once we move in. Should we still try to get the vendor to provide indeminity insurance as a good practice measure? I'm confused?? :confused:
    • matto
    • By matto 14th Nov 06, 1:57 PM
    • 648 Posts
    • 257 Thanks
    matto
    As has been mentioned above there is such a thing as permitted development rights, which allow you to build certain small, typically single storey extensions, without planning permission. Most conservatories are built using these rights and do not need planning permission.

    Most sheds also fall within permtted development rights - they are not excluded simply because they are temporary buildings as is commonly believed. How long before we see indemnity policies for sheds. These policies are worthless because there is nothing to insure against.

    Fortunately for both conservatories and sheds, building regs approval isn't normally needed.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 14th Nov 06, 2:25 PM
    • 38,465 Posts
    • 161,291 Thanks
    silvercar
    Hi

    I'm in the same boat. We're ready to exchange but there is a query regarding the conservatory and planning permission. The thing is that we're going to knock it down anyway once we move in. Should we still try to get the vendor to provide indeminity insurance as a good practice measure? I'm confused?? :confused:
    by STAR_BUCK
    conservatories do not generally require PP.

    If you are going to knock it down why would you want indemnity insurance? In case someone comes along and claims that you didn't have permission to put up what you are knocking down? :confused::confused:
    • matto
    • By matto 14th Nov 06, 2:40 PM
    • 648 Posts
    • 257 Thanks
    matto
    You probably ought to apply to your local council for a certificate of lawfulness regarding the demolition you are proposing. You wouldn't want to have to buy an indemnity policy for future buyers just in case planning permission for your demolition was needed.

    Whilst this post is slightly tongue in cheek it is nevertheless worth pointing out that certain permissions may be needed before you can demolish a building (or part thereof). How would you prove afterwards that you didn't need any of the permissions which you might have needed?
    Last edited by matto; 14-11-2006 at 3:03 PM.
  • porthenys
    porthenys
    Re discussion on indemnity insurance the property we are buying has a DIY garage extension built without planning permission and also in breach of a covenant put in place by the original builder. Could the builder insist on it being removed (it has been there since 1995) and would indemnity insurace cover the work assuming the vendor was prepared to pay for it?
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 28th Nov 06, 3:34 PM
    • 38,465 Posts
    • 161,291 Thanks
    silvercar
    Re discussion on indemnity insurance the property we are buying has a DIY garage extension built without planning permission and also in breach of a covenant put in place by the original builder. Could the builder insist on it being removed (it has been there since 1995) and would indemnity insurace cover the work assuming the vendor was prepared to pay for it?
    by porthenys
    the builder would have to prove that he has incured a loss by the garage being built without his permission. he would probably be time-barred or would certainly need a very good reason for a court to accept his tardiness in not taking action for 11 years. Showing a potential loss is possible if he is still selling houses on the development; harder if he has long left the area.

    The council has only 4 years to take action, so your safe there. You may find that the extension falls within "permitted development" rights and no PP was necessary.

    I wouldn't let it worry you, unless the same builder is trying to sell the house next door! You could ask the vendor for indemnity insurance, it would cover the loss in value for the garage not having permission, if you needed to claim.

    Personally, I wouldn't worry due to the time frame - if the builder was going to act, he would have done so by now.
    • Slinky
    • By Slinky 28th Nov 06, 3:43 PM
    • 5,648 Posts
    • 26,608 Thanks
    Slinky
    Re discussion on indemnity insurance the property we are buying has a DIY garage extension built without planning permission and also in breach of a covenant put in place by the original builder. Could the builder insist on it being removed (it has been there since 1995) and would indemnity insurace cover the work assuming the vendor was prepared to pay for it?
    by porthenys
    Is the builder still trading? Eleven years is a long time in the building trade it seems! In theory we needed permission from our builder to put a conservatory on our last house. In practice the building company had gone out of business (possibly trading again under another name) and weren't in a position to request permission from.
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