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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Archna
    • By MSE Archna 6th Oct 06, 7:00 PM
    • 1,874Posts
    • 6,140Thanks
    MSE Archna
    Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 06, 7:00 PM
    Council Tax Cost Cutting: reduce your band and grab any discounts Discussion Area 6th Oct 06 at 7:00 PM
    This thread is here to discuss the content of the article on Council Tax Cashback: reduce your band and save 1000s.

    However if you have already followed the system, please use report them in the Council tax rebanding successes discussion.

    Note from Martin: Thank you to all the contributers to the initial thread, which provided the genisis for the article. Much appreciated.


    Last edited by MSE Archna; 10-06-2010 at 4:39 PM.
    Report inappropriate posts: forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com




Page 256
    • opaque
    • By opaque 22nd Mar 18, 3:46 PM
    • 179 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    opaque
    Many thanks to you both. Don't ever remember seeing the date of the last sale mentioned before. Makes the utter confusion about values more understandable, how can you match any property if you rank it different ways.
    • michaeljb
    • By michaeljb 22nd Mar 18, 4:04 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    michaeljb
    Nightmere, help please
    Hi, thanks for the reply, I used a 0.2km radius as VOA asked for properties in the near vicinity. To extend this out would put me in a different area for banding purposes and larger properties. Frankly I feel VOA are being obstructive and have offered no help what so ever. I was interested in the article remark that VOA would advise how the original band was determined, they certainly have not done that.
    The 3 bed semi bungalows, I used for comparison, are quite small and are generally grouped in an area of predominantly retired people. I may have to get an estate agent to value the property and then extrapolate back to get an approx. 1991 value, not certain if VOA would accept this though. Is it usual that any correspondence from VOA is not referenced or signed by an individual?
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 22nd Mar 18, 6:08 PM
    • 10,780 Posts
    • 9,051 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    Many thanks to you both. Don't ever remember seeing the date of the last sale mentioned before. Makes the utter confusion about values more understandable, how can you match any property if you rank it different ways.
    Originally posted by opaque
    Bands are always based on levels of value as at 1 April 1991, whenever the dwelling was built or last sold
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 23rd Mar 18, 1:50 PM
    • 10,780 Posts
    • 9,051 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    Hi, thanks for the reply, I used a 0.2km radius as VOA asked for properties in the near vicinity. To extend this out would put me in a different area for banding purposes and larger properties. Frankly I feel VOA are being obstructive and have offered no help what so ever. I was interested in the article remark that VOA would advise how the original band was determined, they certainly have not done that.
    The 3 bed semi bungalows, I used for comparison, are quite small and are generally grouped in an area of predominantly retired people. I may have to get an estate agent to value the property and then extrapolate back to get an approx. 1991 value, not certain if VOA would accept this though. Is it usual that any correspondence from VOA is not referenced or signed by an individual?
    Originally posted by michaeljb
    The current VOA policy appears to be that if a Council Taxpayer wants a band review, they have to provide evidence to support their claim. The VOA will not help CT payers find such evidence, it is not their job.

    Getting a current valuation from an estate agent and extrapolating back to 1991 would not be convincing evidence for the VOA. It would at best give a very rough idea of the value in 1991.

    It is quite probable that some correspondence, especially "stock letters" will not be signed by an individual.
    Last edited by lincroft1710; 23-03-2018 at 1:53 PM.
    • Indy Scot
    • By Indy Scot 23rd Mar 18, 2:50 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Indy Scot
    Scotland Assessors - 6 Month Rule
    Just found Advice on council tax rebranding. It appears that I am in the wrong band.

    Firstly went to the Scottish Assessors Website] but have also experienced same problem, the six month rule. There now appears no way forward?

    Please help
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 24th Mar 18, 1:42 PM
    • 10,780 Posts
    • 9,051 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    Just found Advice on council tax rebranding. It appears that I am in the wrong band.

    Firstly went to the Scottish Assessors Website] but have also experienced same problem, the six month rule. There now appears no way forward?

    Please help
    Originally posted by Indy Scot
    Tell the Assessor why you think your band is incorrect and ask them to investigate it.
    • Roseanne1
    • By Roseanne1 26th Mar 18, 9:55 PM
    • 133 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Roseanne1
    I am looking into the council tax band for my mother's house. I have looked at valuations on similar houses sold recently and used the calculator to get a rough value at 1991 and it was comfortably under 27,000 yet we are in band B. I know you can't use this as evidence when asking for a review so I looked out the state for settlement from when my mother and late father purchased the house in 1991.

    The problem is that they bought the house under the right to buy scheme so the price shown on the state for settlement is the discounted price and I was wondering if there was a way of finding out what the discount rate was at that time. I did a bit of research and have come up with a figure of around 33% or 34% but I am wary of relying on this as it was essentially a google search and I want to ensure I have as close to the right figures as possible. I can't go back to the solicitor who handled the sale as the company is dissolved now so does anyone have any ideas? Is it worth writing to my council?

    The house is in Scotland if that helps.

    Thanks.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 27th Mar 18, 1:54 PM
    • 10,780 Posts
    • 9,051 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    I am looking into the council tax band for my mother's house. I have looked at valuations on similar houses sold recently and used the calculator to get a rough value at 1991 and it was comfortably under 27,000 yet we are in band B. I know you can't use this as evidence when asking for a review so I looked out the state for settlement from when my mother and late father purchased the house in 1991.

    The problem is that they bought the house under the right to buy scheme so the price shown on the state for settlement is the discounted price and I was wondering if there was a way of finding out what the discount rate was at that time. I did a bit of research and have come up with a figure of around 33% or 34% but I am wary of relying on this as it was essentially a google search and I want to ensure I have as close to the right figures as possible. I can't go back to the solicitor who handled the sale as the company is dissolved now so does anyone have any ideas? Is it worth writing to my council?

    The house is in Scotland if that helps.

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by Roseanne1
    What exactly is "comfortably under 27,000"? I don't know how accurate house price indices are for Scotland, but they are too inaccurate in England to be useful for making a case for a lower CT band.

    RTB valuations will ignore tenants' improvements and will not necessarily reflect a true market value prior to the discount being applied. Your mother can write to the council and ask them the amount discount applicable at the time in their case. The Assessor may or may not accept this method of trying to ascertain the 1991 value.

    Finally are other similar council houses in Band B. If so you will probably have an uphill struggle trying to persuade the Assessor that Band B is wrong.
    • Roseanne1
    • By Roseanne1 27th Mar 18, 8:02 PM
    • 133 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    Roseanne1
    Well I had a go at phoning the council and they were able to confirm the value when the houses were sold before discounts and the was 28,000 so that does indeed push us into band B.

    Someone in 2016 sold a house that was similar to ours for around 55,000 and, when I used the Nationwide calculator, this showed a 1991 value of 18,000 so there is quite a disparity. There was no way I would have gone to the assessor with that amount and that was why I wanted to see if I could get a more accurate value.

    The others round about me were band B but my thinking was if someone just drove by and made a rough and wrong valuation that would be applied to all similar houses.

    I'm glad I tried nonetheless, at least we know now.
    • DiM1961
    • By DiM1961 28th Mar 18, 6:04 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    DiM1961
    I'm looking for help please, I'm looking into the council banding for my mum on her small one bedroom bungalow that has been banded a band C (Bristol) I've search zoopla and right move house prices for the bungalows and houses nearby using the nationwide calculator it appears that the bungalow prices for 1991 would have been valued around 45k whilst the 3 bed house nearby banded B would have been over the 52k threshold for band B. I can't understand why small bungalow are in C and the houses in B but not a reason for them to access and re band. I've found one bungalow in the next road built by same builder identical to the terrace of bungalows my mum is in that is band B all the others are band C. Still not enough to re check the banding. My mum and dad (now deceased) bought the bungalow in 1988 so I have the details of what they paid. The response I've got is that they want proof of what one of the bungalows sold for between 1989 and 1993 2 years either side.
    My question does anyone know where I can find out which if any of the bungalows were sold during these years and how I can find out at what price? Many thanks
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 28th Mar 18, 9:02 PM
    • 10,780 Posts
    • 9,051 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    Well I had a go at phoning the council and they were able to confirm the value when the houses were sold before discounts and the was 28,000 so that does indeed push us into band B.

    Someone in 2016 sold a house that was similar to ours for around 55,000 and, when I used the Nationwide calculator, this showed a 1991 value of 18,000 so there is quite a disparity.
    Originally posted by Roseanne1
    55K sounds suspiciously low for a sale 2 yrs ago. An actual 1991 valuation is more credible than using a sale 25 years later and trying to work back to a 1991 figure.
    • nikkim2175
    • By nikkim2175 4th Apr 18, 8:54 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    nikkim2175
    Good Morning,

    I am looking into council tax band for my parents. They bought their house in november 1988 for 44,000 which would suggest band C. However they are band D and whilst I know the house value would have increased in 2 and a a half years, I cant see how it would have increased to 68,000. The VOA wont accept this valuation as its just outside of the time frame of 2 years. I know they got the property valued around 1991 by the mortgage company to remortgage and was valued at 60,000 but I dont have any evidence of this. Do you think the mortgage company would still have information on this valuation after all this time? Would it show if I requested a SAR?

    Thanks in advance
    • rabbitlover
    • By rabbitlover 4th Apr 18, 9:06 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    rabbitlover
    Are there any of their neighbours in similar houses?
    Last edited by rabbitlover; 04-04-2018 at 9:09 AM.
    • amyedge77
    • By amyedge77 5th Apr 18, 9:19 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    amyedge77
    What if your house is a new build. Will we definitely have the correct band already? If not is it still possible to find out how much it would have been in 1991 even though all the houses in our street were only built last year?
    Thanks !!!128591;!!!127996;
    • ddks
    • By ddks 5th Apr 18, 9:41 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ddks
    You can provide actual sales data from 1991 to the VOA but if you have no appeal rights.....forget it. They are not interested in fulfilling their statutory duty.
    They hide behind the 6 month rule.
    • Andy.t71
    • By Andy.t71 14th Apr 18, 9:48 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Andy.t71
    Council tax banding help please!
    Having watched Martin talk about Council Tax, I looked into ours in a little more detail. Our house is in Band C which means it was supposedly valued over 52K in April 1991. Zoopla tells me that the house was sold for 38K in 1997 (although we paid 57K at the end of 1998 after a builder had renovated it), the adjoining semi was sold for 47K at around the same time.These figures strongly suggest to me that our property and next door should not have been placed in Band C. On our street there is a row of fairly comparable semi-detached houses that are mainly also in Band C although the adjacent semi-detached properyt, that is most similar to ours (style, size and garden), is in Band B. The other houses were (in 1991) slightly bigger or had substantially bigger gardens. It appears this is not enough to persuade the VOA to reband our property. They want me to come up with further evidence such as the sale price within two years of 1991 or comparable houses that are in a different band. Do I have a something that is worth fighting? We have lived at the address for 20 years so any rebanding would be quite valuable.The other thing I have struggled with is Zoopla is very useful for sale prices back to approx 1997 but is there anywhere where I can access them around 1991? The VOA directed me towards the Land Registry but you pay for every property you get details about and I do not know which houses were sold around 1991 so it is a bit of a needle in a haystack situation. Any advice wuld be welcome.
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 14th Apr 18, 2:31 PM
    • 10,780 Posts
    • 9,051 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    Having watched Martin talk about Council Tax, I looked into ours in a little more detail. Our house is in Band C which means it was supposedly valued over 52K in April 1991. Zoopla tells me that the house was sold for 38K in 1997 (although we paid 57K at the end of 1998 after a builder had renovated it), the adjoining semi was sold for 47K at around the same time.These figures strongly suggest to me that our property and next door should not have been placed in Band C. On our street there is a row of fairly comparable semi-detached houses that are mainly also in Band C although the adjacent semi-detached properyt, that is most similar to ours (style, size and garden), is in Band B. The other houses were (in 1991) slightly bigger or had substantially bigger gardens. It appears this is not enough to persuade the VOA to reband our property. They want me to come up with further evidence such as the sale price within two years of 1991 or comparable houses that are in a different band. Do I have a something that is worth fighting? We have lived at the address for 20 years so any rebanding would be quite valuable.The other thing I have struggled with is Zoopla is very useful for sale prices back to approx 1997 but is there anywhere where I can access them around 1991? The VOA directed me towards the Land Registry but you pay for every property you get details about and I do not know which houses were sold around 1991 so it is a bit of a needle in a haystack situation. Any advice wuld be welcome.
    Originally posted by Andy.t71
    As you paid 57K in 1998 following renovations, this is a more reliable figure as it reflects your home's physical state at the date of last sale, which is what the band would be based on rather than its physical state at 1 April 1993, when CT was introduced.

    There is nowhere to access prices from around 1991, they are not in the public domain.
    • Lonestar11
    • By Lonestar11 11th May 18, 5:31 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Lonestar11
    I sent off a letter to VOA 3 weeks ago asking for a reassessment of my CT band and provided evidence as to why I thought it was wrong. I included a phone number and email address but have not had an acknowledgement of my letter. I wondered if that was normal and if I'll hear from them in due course once they've had a chance to look into my request. Does anyone know if they usually acknowledge receipt or just contact you when they've investigated? And do they usually write, phone or email? Thanks.
    • ELLEN RALPH
    • By ELLEN RALPH 14th May 18, 12:35 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ELLEN RALPH
    Hi I'm a little confused about this. I have checked the step one and all the houses in my block are band B. So i am not sure if this fails step 1. However when I have checked the valuation tool it indicates that the houses were in fact worth less than 32000 in 1991. This then passes step 2? Anybody able to clarify please
    • CIS
    • By CIS 14th May 18, 1:22 PM
    • 10,570 Posts
    • 6,106 Thanks
    CIS
    Hi I'm a little confused about this. I have checked the step one and all the houses in my block are band B. So i am not sure if this fails step 1. However when I have checked the valuation tool it indicates that the houses were in fact worth less than 32000 in 1991. This then passes step 2? Anybody able to clarify please
    Originally posted by ELLEN RALPH
    You can still try but if the VOA look there's a good chance that their original banding decision is correct unless you believe all of the properties in the block are banded wrongly in the first place.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax specialist. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
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