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    • Oneday77
    • By Oneday77 2nd Aug 10, 6:06 PM
    • 1,217 Posts
    • 1,009 Thanks
    Oneday77
    • #2
    • 2nd Aug 10, 6:06 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Aug 10, 6:06 PM
    There has been a lot of abuse on various threads on the Forum as of late. Benefits are just one example of where people get things out of proportion. I agree with Martin's blog it isn't easy to police it and they need to hear of abuse reports to spot the issues.

    I would suggets that the method of reporting is changed though. If you don't use an email client clicking on the report button tries to open a mail client for you. Can you not change it to take you to a prefilled forum post with the reported post, you user name and space to comment?

    The Debt Free Wanabee board lost one of it's best posters a few weeks ago due to abuse both publicly and by PMs. This needs to be stamped out.
    New PV club member. 3.99kW system. Solar Edge with 14 x 285W JA Solar panels. 55į West from south and 35į pitch.
  • Edinburghlass
    • #3
    • 2nd Aug 10, 6:08 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Aug 10, 6:08 PM
    You'll find if you press the abuse button now, you can do it on my post if you like, that it will open up a pre-populated form for reporting abuse.
    Martin has asked me to tell you that I'm the Board Guide of the Telephones, Reclaim Bank Charges, Silver Savers and Scotland boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly and I can move and merge threads there. Pease remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides don't deal with this. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
  • NASA
    • #4
    • 2nd Aug 10, 7:18 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd Aug 10, 7:18 PM
    I took part in the thread that started this whole kerfuffle* and think it has been blown totally out of proportion.

    One user, a serial wind-up merchant (Some would say troll - I personally think there is a subtle difference), make a few outlandish statements and another user (Who continusously defends the rights of everyone under the sun being allowed to claim benefits) took the bait.

    Messageboards are always goint to bring this kind of behaviour. Every forum has it in its own way. Football, politics etc.
  • bat-out-of-hell
    • #5
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:10 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:10 PM
    I took part in the thread that started this whole kerfuffle* and think it has been blown totally out of proportion.

    One user, a serial wind-up merchant (Some would say troll - I personally think there is a subtle difference), make a few outlandish statements and another user (Who continusously defends the rights of everyone under the sun being allowed to claim benefits) took the bait.

    Messageboards are always goint to bring this kind of behaviour. Every forum has it in its own way. Football, politics etc.
    Originally posted by NASA
    But this is not a forum on football or politics, while a broad church, it hosts boards of the most desperate of society, and the most vulnerable, a fact Martin acknowledges, but replies,í well they should not post here'
    For the same reason you give.

    Then in the next breath boasting itís the 10th biggest uk forum, which is the problem, it can not be Ďpolicedí but is a magnet to those that need it, but are not strong enough to use it safely.

    Yet do the vulnerable and desperate head that warning, no, the bit that amazes me is that Martin expects them too.

    This place has the best of humanity, and the worst, one attracts the needy while the other destroys, I am just amazed Martin has got away with it as long as he has, without something really bad happening, yet what is he supposed to do? Pull the plug? That just leaves no where to turn.

    I have had this discussion with Martin, many times, and I accept the legal issues, but itís the attitude of the likes of you that it is just an internet forum, it happens, so that ok thatís the problem!
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 2nd Aug 10, 8:14 PM
    • 8,233 Posts
    • 7,383 Thanks
    John_Pierpoint
    • #6
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:14 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:14 PM
    If you are attacked and abused - leave the keyboard and have a cup of tea.
    Then return and look up all the other postings by your attacker - if they are regularly raving on about something without bothering to do any factual research - simply ignore them for the "ignorant" people they must be.
    If you seem to be their only victim have a look at yourself in the mirror and see if the cap fits.
    Also have a look at the day of the week and the time - beware of alcohol fuelled postings in the early hours of Saturday & Sunday.

    Personally I think it is unforgivable to attack a posting asking for advice when the OP is obviously in current financial distress.

    However if someone posts something on the lines of:
    We took out a Northern Wreck mortgage for 135% of value, 'cos we also needed a new car, guaranteed to be no more than 1% over base rate for the first 4 years and in September we will have to switch to the standard variable rate. We have tried to switch and nobody will accept us. This bank is now owned by the Government and they owe us a duty of care...................
    Don't expect us other long suffering tax payers, who re-financed your bank, thus stopping you being thrown out on the street by the liquidator, to be terribly sympathetic.
    Something about making beds and lying on them come to mind.
    Last edited by John_Pierpoint; 02-08-2010 at 8:17 PM.
  • Vader123
    • #7
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:24 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:24 PM
    Martin? Are you reading this?

    The problem with the "benefits" board is :

    1) the advice on how to commit fraud
    2) the ethics involved.

    The board has become a magnet for people who want to know how to get out of "new deal" or how to inflate their illness on a form to get benefits.

    We have had recent examples of people wanting to move out of living with their terminally ill mother because it gets them £50 a week more. Other examples of how people can do most things we all do (evident from their post history) and then claim they have "stress" to get out of job interviews, and ask advice over it.

    Whenever this is pointed out the usual accusations come.

    I called the lady who wanted to move out of her mothers (who she cares for, loves and wants to be with her) but is moving for £50 a week, a "vulgar" decision. I got "carded" for this.

    The point is, and what infuriates the regular knoweldgable helpers on those board, for free, to make MSE the success it is, is that fraud or advice on how to commit fraud is largely left alone. Yes there is the abuse email, but because the board is busy and a success usually people get the advice on fraud before the thread is closed/deleted.

    As an example there is a person who regularly posts there (regulars know the user as Bootybabe etc) who regularly registers new accounts and posts. Whats happening with this?

    I see you Martin on TV, hear you on radio giving excellent advice on moneysaving, highlighting peoples rights and the bad practice of banks etc, then I come to your forum and see people also getting advice on how to claim "single" benefits whilst having partners. This all goes allowed, its only a matter of time before you are challenged on this on-air or otherwise.

    So while the regulars will fall into line no doubt, lets rememeber thats its the duty of everyone to challenge fraud wherever it happens, even MSE. I am sure that the law of the land outstrips the rules of MSE if its done in an appropriate way.

    Vader
  • bat-out-of-hell
    • #8
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:24 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:24 PM
    Don't expect us other long suffering tax payers, who re-financed your bank, thus stopping you being thrown out on the street by the liquidator, to be terribly sympathetic.
    Originally posted by John_Pierpoint


    Do you want to try that bit again so it actually reflects real life?
    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 2nd Aug 10, 8:30 PM
    • 8,111 Posts
    • 42,248 Thanks
    MSE Martin
    • #9
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:30 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Aug 10, 8:30 PM
    But this is not a forum on football or politics, while a broad church, it hosts boards of the most desperate of society, and the most vulnerable, a fact Martin acknowledges, but replies,í well they should not post here'
    For the same reason you give.
    Originally posted by bat-out-of-hell
    Im not sure why you say that - its certainly not my view. Vulnerable people should be able to post here. Yet if you can't engage with people with a different viewpoint you shouldn't be in the discussion boards.

    The MoneySAving boards are different (and they are 95% of the boards) there the aim is to help each other.

    Yet we need to accept sometimes some nasty people will post horrid things that can hurt the vulnerable - and we can't premoderate the 10,000s posts a week - so there will be times when there's something nasty on the site - until someone reports it and then the abuse team get back to it.

    Sadly there is nothing we can do to stop that.
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.

    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.

    Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
  • NASA
    But this is not a forum on football or politics, while a broad church, it hosts boards of the most desperate of society, and the most vulnerable, a fact Martin acknowledges, but replies,í well they should not post here'
    For the same reason you give.

    I have had this discussion with Martin, many times, and I accept the legal issues, but itís the attitude of the likes of you that it is just an internet forum, it happens, so that ok thatís the problem!
    Originally posted by bat-out-of-hell
    I'm a member of another message board where people have serious mental health problems (Not all of them but certainly some). It's a support and advice board. Designed to look out for people with mental health issues.

    MSE is not that kind of board. MSE is about maximising income, minimising expenditure and trying to get the best value for money.

    While its not quite 'anything goes' in Discussion Time it is not the same IMO.

    Another thing, pretty much every board I have been on, and its a few, people end up saying that things have never been worse, we have hit a new low. I dont see it that way at all.

    This is the internet and people need to have a thick skin. Wishface repeatedly went to the threads that were going to wind him up. Why do that?
    • NEH
    • By NEH 2nd Aug 10, 8:41 PM
    • 2,411 Posts
    • 1,896 Thanks
    NEH
    There has been more benefit bashing of late and it has become more personal over hte last few months. I remember one thread, someone speaking out about benefits actually went into some of the mebers profiles and had a look at how often they posted in order to score points...

    I appreciate that is is on the discussion boards but it has got quite vicious at times but i accept that it is a public forum and and that if people don't like it then they have to walk away. People in real life get a hard time and they do so on here if they are on benefits but that's people's attitudes and something we can't change, it is a ignorant attitude to take but there is no re educating some people that there are genuine people in need of benefits. Some people won't accept that no matter what and they will post such drivel and even go as far to say it would never happen to them but one day it just might and then they'll be returning to this forum for a whole different purpose.

    I wish it could be controlled or at least some of the comments curtailed but it's a reflection of real life sadly and being long term ill i haven't the energy to re educate some of the masses...
    Last edited by NEH; 02-08-2010 at 8:44 PM.
  • bat-out-of-hell
    Im not sure why you say that - its certainly not my view. Vulnerable people should be able to post here. Yet if you can't engage with people with a different viewpoint you shouldn't be in the discussion boards.

    .
    Originally posted by MSE Martin
    You just answered your own question Martin, I am not sure why you can not see why i said it, as you just confirmed it.

    The fact they can not 'engage with people with a different viewpoint' will never stop them, which was my point, you run the biggest forum in the UK Martin, so they will come here, whether they are strong enough or not.

    But i dont wish to cover old ground Martin, I accepted years ago that you could not do do anything about it, i am just sickened that it is still seen by some as 'normal', 'it happens'....thats the attitude that allows it to continue.
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 2nd Aug 10, 8:48 PM
    • 8,233 Posts
    • 7,383 Thanks
    John_Pierpoint


    Do you want to try that bit again so it actually reflects real life?
    Originally posted by bat-out-of-hell
    Sorry I don't understand your posting.
    (and I'm not the first)
    • globalds
    • By globalds 2nd Aug 10, 9:09 PM
    • 8,905 Posts
    • 16,706 Thanks
    globalds
    Politicians and internet forum users are maybe just expressing public opinion

    It would appear most of the general public do not like the notion of a benefit lifestyle.

    The unfortunate consequence of this hardening of the public's mind , is that genuine claimants are going to get a tough time.

    The way I see it at the moment is lots of people are moaning because they will be falling out of there comfort zone ..Most reasonable people can see the difference between that and someone facing real hardship and not being able to help them selves out.... Maybe that is why there does not apear to be much sympathy about.
  • bat-out-of-hell
    Sorry I don't understand your posting.
    (and I'm not the first)
    Originally posted by John_Pierpoint
    To get a together mortgage, you must have had a job, so paid taxes too, and most that now know how foolish an idea it was still work and pay tax,so its not just your tax 'bailing them out'

    thus stopping you being thrown out on the street by the liquidator
    Why do you think that would happen?

    the book of debts would just have been sold to the highest bidder, best return for the least work, why would a liquidator go to all the trouble evicting people? by the time they had done, the legal fees would offset a big junk of what they could ever possibly make.......
    • Sueinbirmingham
    • By Sueinbirmingham 2nd Aug 10, 9:15 PM
    • 1,483 Posts
    • 4,076 Thanks
    Sueinbirmingham
    I must admit to having been surprised by some of the unpleasant messages I've read on here, because I didn't think it was that sort of board. (Although I've been registered for a while, it's only in the last week or so that I've been posting much and I haven't read much of the boards.)

    On reflection, though, benefits bashing is fashionable right now, so you find it everywhere. It's just a shame to find it on here.
    • MicheH
    • By MicheH 2nd Aug 10, 9:44 PM
    • 2,604 Posts
    • 5,772 Thanks
    MicheH
    However if someone posts something on the lines of:
    We took out a Northern Wreck mortgage for 135% of value, 'cos we also needed a new car, guaranteed to be no more than 1% over base rate for the first 4 years and in September we will have to switch to the standard variable rate. We have tried to switch and nobody will accept us. This bank is now owned by the Government and they owe us a duty of care...................
    Don't expect us other long suffering tax payers, who re-financed your bank, thus stopping you being thrown out on the street by the liquidator, to be terribly sympathetic.
    Something about making beds and lying on them come to mind.
    Originally posted by John_Pierpoint
    Opinion is dangerous when it comes from ignorance and that is a major problem here. Ignorance.
    • 3Dogs
    • By 3Dogs 2nd Aug 10, 9:46 PM
    • 13,446 Posts
    • 145,930 Thanks
    3Dogs
    Im not sure why you say that - its certainly not my view. Vulnerable people should be able to post here. Yet if you can't engage with people with a different viewpoint you shouldn't be in the discussion boards.

    The MoneySAving boards are different (and they are 95% of the boards) there the aim is to help each other.

    Yet we need to accept sometimes some nasty people will post horrid things that can hurt the vulnerable - and we can't premoderate the 10,000s posts a week - so there will be times when there's something nasty on the site - until someone reports it and then the abuse team get back to it.

    Sadly there is nothing we can do to stop that.
    Originally posted by MSE Martin
    The annoying thing about this is when members report abuse, in great numbers, and nothing is done about it - or at best it takes too long to be removed/actioned - meaning that the obvious abuse is left in situ for far too long. Also, I agree with the comment about the vile long-term abuse of a certain member which was totally ignored and allowed to continue which left him no alternative but to leave this site, taking his invaluable advice with him - and we all know who this is

    You just answered your own question Martin, I am not sure why you can not see why i said it, as you just confirmed it.

    The fact they can not 'engage with people with a different viewpoint' will never stop them, which was my point, you run the biggest forum in the UK Martin, so they will come here, whether they are strong enough or not.

    But i dont wish to cover old ground Martin, I accepted years ago that you could not do do anything about it, i am just sickened that it is still seen by some as 'normal', 'it happens'....thats the attitude that allows it to continue.
    Originally posted by bat-out-of-hell
    That is exactly how I see it too!!!
    Mr 3Dogs 3-7-12 3Dogs'Mam 31-3-13
    • loracan1
    • By loracan1 2nd Aug 10, 10:03 PM
    • 2,233 Posts
    • 2,443 Thanks
    loracan1
    Personally I think it is unforgivable to attack a posting asking for advice when the OP is obviously in current financial distress.

    However if someone posts something on the lines of:
    We took out a Northern Wreck mortgage for 135% of value, 'cos we also needed a new car, guaranteed to be no more than 1% over base rate for the first 4 years and in September we will have to switch to the standard variable rate. We have tried to switch and nobody will accept us. This bank is now owned by the Government and they owe us a duty of care...................
    Don't expect us other long suffering tax payers, who re-financed your bank, thus stopping you being thrown out on the street by the liquidator, to be terribly sympathetic.
    Something about making beds and lying on them come to mind.
    Originally posted by John_Pierpoint
    Unfortunately the first happens regularly in the benefits board, I wander in occasionally and it's the same members over and over again who's mission in life seems to be to pick holes in someone's story and pass judgement. (If it were me I'd change odd details if I were enquiring about something, so I believe that's why there are holes to pick)

    The second - well - just don't reply, let it die a death.
    • delain
    • By delain 2nd Aug 10, 10:09 PM
    • 7,494 Posts
    • 16,773 Thanks
    delain
    When I joined this site I was looking for genuine advice and I was told that I was a liar and committing fraud I wasn't, and everything got sorted in the end.

    I did wander over to the rest of the boards and now MSE is the reason my house isn't tidy and I find it mostly positive. The pregnancy thread in particular has been a life saver for me and kept me sane this last few months.

    I do however say out of the benefits/DT boards most of the time because it makes me so cross when someone is upse and worried and the same group of people jump on their backs to tell them just what scum they must be because they don' have a job or own their own home, and obviously lost their last job on purpose just to annoy the self righteous

    Mum of several with a twisted sense of humour and a laundry obsession
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