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  • FIRST POST
    • justwondering25
    • By justwondering25 31st Mar 10, 11:51 PM
    • 197Posts
    • 74Thanks
    justwondering25
    question:- I'm mortgage free. should my girlfriend pay me rent ?
    • #1
    • 31st Mar 10, 11:51 PM
    question:- I'm mortgage free. should my girlfriend pay me rent ? 31st Mar 10 at 11:51 PM
    Okay , so should my girlfriend pay rent ?

    we've had a debate about this tonight, she seems to think that I'm profiting from the situation ! , basically to put some figures into this, similar property to rent 600-650 , property value 140k , I said I would not expect half of what the property would rent for , but I said how about let's prentend half the value was in the bank in a high interest account at say 4% , work out the interest and divide by 12 = 250 a month ( plus half of bills) , she still seems to think I'm profiting ! to me it seems fair , she does accept that she should pay something , but has yet to come up with the figure she has in mind.

    considering I had to work hard to pay off the mortgage , what should I do ?

    she also posed the question , what if we where married with 2 children would I still expect her to pay , after a short thought I said Yes !

    well am I been a right old meanie or am I using plain old common sense !

    like they say love don't pay the rent , not even on a paid for house etc ! I.M.H.O

    _____________________________________________

    Insert by Martin

    Thanks to justwondering for allowing us to use this as a Money Moral Dilemma - not an easy one - both sides have a lot to go for it. I'm glad to see a question like this - too many move in without considering the financial implications of a relationship and often its one of the biggest causes of it going wrong - plaudits to just wondering for thinking of it.

    One note, unlike the theoretical MMDs this is about a real couple, so please be sensitive to that in your answers.

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    update for those that may not have time to read the whole thread i posted this on page 13:-

    Hi , I'm the original poster , just to make clear a few things for those that have not yet read the whole post.

    I live in leeds , i'm self sufficiant , i have ./ soon to of had my own business for 15 profitable years , basically going to adapt my business to be soley internet based , so i'm going to start up a new business and leave the old retail business with my current business partner , the business has no dedt.

    I got a ten year mortgage in my early twentys and paid it all off v.quickly , my girlfriend whom i love dealry lives in the west midlands , she does not want to move to leeds (dont blame her lol) because she wants to be close to her family , i visit her every weekend , each way the trip is around 25.00 in diesel etc , no complaints , worth mentioning to show i'm not tight fisted , i owe nobody nothing , no loans , dedts of any kind and i have good savings , one of the many reason i visit her every weekend and not her to me , is that she has 2 lovely cats , that dont take too kindly to travelling 2 hours 15 mins each way , dont blame them.

    My girlfriend is currently renting.

    I posted this on page 9 :-

    Sorry for not logging in for a while ,Ive read through all the comments , ideas and sugguestions and ive put thought into the ideas offered and picked out the best bits for the solution, thank you all , i'm glad to let you all know that me and my girlfriend have pretty much come to a happy and what appears to the two of us to be a amicable agreement in principle.

    Basically :-

    i would buy a cheaper investment property down in the west midlands (rent my place in leeds also), with a good sized deposit , she would not pay me rent , but based on the market value of the property to rent in its area for e.g 500 , she would put away in a joint account 250.00 each month , this would after say a 2-3 year period give us a deposit for another place , i would then rent out my investment property and we would use the rent/us fund deposit for a joint mortgage , if we did split in the period before we bought a place , then the money would be divided equally among us , which is kinda fair , my girlfriend would not leave with nothing and i would perhaps not feel aggrieved at how the not paying rent idea worked out.

    Bills would be 50/50 and my girlfriend would (hope not if things went wrong) have a claim on my property etc. , which she clearly has stated to me she would not want to take anything of mine anyway.

    The joint fund can also be used for emergency repairs etc , but with the investment property been mine , i would not expect any of are joint rent/saving funds to go into the doing up of the place.

    if when we choose to buy are first joint property , the potential theoretical joint sum after 3 years would be a quiet healthy 9000 (plus interest) we could then if we choose to add equal extra amounts to the 9000 to up are deposit to suit are needs .

    We feel this is win win situation for us both , my girlfriend is not stuck in a rent trap and i feel the money is going towards are future for the greater good of us.

    I love my Girlfriend , But i feel it is best to sort out the business side of any relationship, business or private life , not thinking through and discussing the idea of paying some form of rent is perhaps to some a elephant in the room , i dont like the smell of elephant dung ! and i dont want it living with us , If any of you feel this is a perhaps a tad cold to have to broach such a subject then that is your choice. But We felt after talking the situation through for the 2nd time the idea will pay dividends and add strenght to are relationship in the long run and will add a firmer base for us.

    In conclusion i cant help but feel ,Life is a buisness , Money is the building bricks , Love is the mortar. IMHO
    Last edited by justwondering25; 22-05-2010 at 11:24 AM.
Page 1
    • butler1882
    • By butler1882 1st Apr 10, 12:00 AM
    • 125 Posts
    • 176 Thanks
    butler1882
    • #2
    • 1st Apr 10, 12:00 AM
    • #2
    • 1st Apr 10, 12:00 AM
    course she should pay if your not married and she is working. if you get married and have a family its a completely different situtaion. Ie would you be the bread winner and she looks after the kids ( what i would want in an ideal world) but again it doesnt pay the bills. Why should she live a free life spending her money on what she pleases and you pay for her water, electricity etc.

    I dont think your being out of order asking for something. If your situation changes then maybe you can think about it again.

    Sorry not much help just my view
    • DarkConvict
    • By DarkConvict 1st Apr 10, 12:17 AM
    • 6,248 Posts
    • 3,056 Thanks
    DarkConvict
    • #3
    • 1st Apr 10, 12:17 AM
    • #3
    • 1st Apr 10, 12:17 AM
    Put this to her, if you were to rent your house to a family member. You are required to get the rent valued at a commercial rate for tax purposes (not letting family/friends live significantly undervalue) to prevent cash in hand jobs and also for any housing benefit payments.
    I would look for similar properties in the area, and take the lower of the estimates. Even go as far as get an estate agent in to value the property if you really want a true value.

    You can't go on mortgage rates and general interest rates. Although to be honest rent usually is about making profit, but for a few years has been about keeping the buy-to-let mortgages paid (if only interest payments)

    End of the day, if you stay together the money is shared, if you don't no offense you don't want to give her a free ride living rent free.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

    There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies
  • niccatw
    • #4
    • 1st Apr 10, 12:57 AM
    • #4
    • 1st Apr 10, 12:57 AM
    Originally, when I saw the title, I thought "off course you should let her live rent free if you love her"... however, reading through your post, it occurred to me that, next on my agenda (after debts are paid off) is overpaying the mortgage as much as I can... if during that time I met any-one, why should they benefit for all my hard work. We all know their are no guarantees in life.

    Besides, what if you needed to release equity or remortgage for some reason? Obviously that would change things.

    Though I appreciate coming to a reasonable compromise about the amount is difficult! I'd probaly take into account wht my OH earned in relation to me and sort something out that way. Though DC's post is, as always, very practical, common sense and based in fact, thereby taking some of the emotion out of the discussion for you both - if that's possible!

    And if the money isn't actually needed for the house, how about putting it into a high interest savings account for home improvements or emergencies or something like that?

    Good luck!
    Jan10: 28,315.81 Jan11: 18,015.32 Jan12: 7,682.58 Jan13: 2,987.73 Current debt: 1,225.55
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  • moggylover
    • #5
    • 1st Apr 10, 1:10 AM
    • #5
    • 1st Apr 10, 1:10 AM
    okay , so should my girlfriend pay rent ?

    we've had a debate about this tonight, she seems to think that I'm profiting from the situation ! , basically to put some figures into this, similar property to rent 600-650 , propery value 140k , I said I would not expect half of what the property would rent for , but I said how about let's prentend half the value was in the bank in a high interest account at say 4% , work out the interest and divide by 12 = 250 a month ( plus half of bills) , she still seems to think I'm profiting ! to me it seems fair , she does except that she should pay something , but has yet to come up with the figure she has in mind.

    considering I had to work hard to pay off the mortgage , what should I do ?

    she also posed the question , what if we where married with 2 children would you I still expect her to pay , after a short thought I said Yes !

    well am I been a right old meanie or am I using plain old common sense !

    like they say love don't pay the rent , not even on a paid for house etc ! I.M.H.O
    Originally posted by justwondering25

    I personally would not take "rent" at all! Reason: if you want to split up then you really do not want her to have any claim at all on your house. However, I might want 50% of all the bills including the Council Tax, with some adjustment if her income is low perhaps.

    I have actually been in your exact situation (except I am a woman) and I would not have wanted to make any profit whatsoever from my loved one, just that they shared our living expenses

    If I were married to you, with two of your children, and you were still expecting me to pay a share of a non-existent rent your anatomy could expect to get re-arranged though

    Yep! You may be very MSE: but I certainly don't think you are in love
    "there are some persons in this World who, unable to give better proof of being wise, take a strange delight in showing what they think they have sagaciously read in mankind by uncharitable suspicions of them"
    (Herman Melville)
    • mrstinchcombe
    • By mrstinchcombe 1st Apr 10, 1:25 AM
    • 435 Posts
    • 738 Thanks
    mrstinchcombe
    • #6
    • 1st Apr 10, 1:25 AM
    • #6
    • 1st Apr 10, 1:25 AM
    Charging your girlfriend rent at a commercial rate? What a catch you are!
    • justwondering25
    • By justwondering25 1st Apr 10, 7:29 AM
    • 197 Posts
    • 74 Thanks
    justwondering25
    • #7
    • 1st Apr 10, 7:29 AM
    • #7
    • 1st Apr 10, 7:29 AM
    It's not a commerical rate , it's a attempt at setting a fair price based on real life factors , I agree when married with two kids etc, but if the worsed happed D.I.V.O.R.C.E as Dolly Parton might say , I wonder who would end up with my house ?

    currently she earns twice as much as me , the amount I suggusted based on external real world factors seems reasonable .

    matters of the heart should not over rule this , as I think that clouds the issue , the idea of putting the money into a bank account and used when needed etc sounds like a good point to make.

    I do love her , but what's fair is fair .
    • Dumyat
    • By Dumyat 1st Apr 10, 7:35 AM
    • 2,107 Posts
    • 12,656 Thanks
    Dumyat
    • #8
    • 1st Apr 10, 7:35 AM
    • #8
    • 1st Apr 10, 7:35 AM
    If I was your girl friend I'd pack my bags. Nothing to do with the money, you'd make me feel like a lodger not your girl friend. I'd be more than happy to split the bills.
    x x x
    • Toomuchdebt
    • By Toomuchdebt 1st Apr 10, 7:45 AM
    • 1,864 Posts
    • 3,139 Thanks
    Toomuchdebt
    • #9
    • 1st Apr 10, 7:45 AM
    • #9
    • 1st Apr 10, 7:45 AM
    I would be happy to split the bills but paying the non existent rent would annoy me just a little bit.
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  • shaven-monkey
    If you were sharing rented accomodation she'd pay half the rent but because it's your house she doesn't have to?
    Tell her you're putting the rent into a savings account to pay for your wedding. Don't specify whether the wedding will involve her.
    Get a standard lodger agreement sorted out and have her sign it. If she won't then you could always say that she's only with you for the free accomodation.
    "Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves." - Norm Franz
  • deepintrouble
    I though the D.I.V.O.R.C.E song was Tammy Wynette?

    Anyway, all I can see is this leading to trouble.
    "Life is a sexually transmitted disease....... with a 100% mortality rate"
    • SailorSam
    • By SailorSam 1st Apr 10, 8:05 AM
    • 21,173 Posts
    • 36,772 Thanks
    SailorSam
    D.I.V.O.C.E. was originally Dolly Parton but she had to give up the rights to it to Tammy when,
    she needed the money to pay half her boyfriends rent.
    Liverpool is one of the wonders of Britain,
    What it may grow to in time, I know not what.

    Daniel Defoe: 1725.
    • davetrousers
    • By davetrousers 1st Apr 10, 8:09 AM
    • 5,639 Posts
    • 4,881 Thanks
    davetrousers
    Why should she get a free ride? The mortgage may be paid off but you still have to pay council tax, gas, water electric, insurance etc.
    .....

    • justwondering25
    • By justwondering25 1st Apr 10, 8:14 AM
    • 197 Posts
    • 74 Thanks
    justwondering25
    hmmm , because a lot of hard work went into paying for the house , would it be unjust if all the bills where split 50/50 and that she perhaps could put in her 50 percent of the hardwork and agree to do all the chores ? currently any washing up / house work is very much 50/50 , I think it's fair some recognition for the house been fully paid deserves more than a round of applause from my partner ?

    fairness and a sense of balance seem to drive me on!
  • rugbymum
    What a wonderful, gentlemanly chap you are!
    RENT????
    Bills....50/50 split YES.
    Chores 50/50 YES.
    But rent????
    I know you worked hard to pay off your mortgage etc, but this sounds a bit mercenary, if you think I'm being harsh, let me explain.
    I was involved with a guy, I earned twice his salary and had my own house (+ 3 kids).
    I expected him to pay helf the bills & do half the chores, but I didn't expect him to pay rent. The house was MINE and I didn't want him to be able to go to a solicitor at a later stage (if it went pear shape) & say that he contributed to the house so had a stake in it. Be VERY careful.
    LBM:FEB 2008
    MEMBER ABC 2010
  • rugbymum
    hmmm , because a lot of hard work went into paying for the house , would it be unjust if all the bills where split 50/50 and that she perhaps could put in her 50 percent of the hardwork and agree to do all the chores ? currently any washing up / house work is very much 50/50 , I think it's fair some recognition for the house been fully paid deserves more than a round of applause from my partner ?

    fairness and a sense of balance seem to drive me on!
    Originally posted by justwondering25
    Is she your partner or a cash-cow who masquerades as your cleaner????
    LBM:FEB 2008
    MEMBER ABC 2010
  • DaveLy
    Yes, charge her normal rent, however instead of going in your pocket it'll go into a savings account (of hers) for you both to take holidays from. That way she gets half return anyway, and you both have a much more enjoyable life :-)
    • justwondering25
    • By justwondering25 1st Apr 10, 9:01 AM
    • 197 Posts
    • 74 Thanks
    justwondering25
    I'm just thinking that sorting out these things sooner rather than later would save arguments in the long run , I wouldn't be happy if I moved into my loved ones place with out first looking at such questions , feelings should not get in the way of real life costs , if the next time you fill in a mortgage application form or rent agreement and it has a option for do you love me , please tick here and that gives you a free mortgage/rent , then alls good, Guess what ! it ain't gonna happen.
  • juliedawn001
    I was in your girlfriend's position 10 years ago. We split all the bills in half as we both eart the same amount but I didn't get asked for rent.
    10 years on we are happily married with children. I gave up work as we had twins and OH paid all the bills as we are a couple. I am now job hunting and when I am employed again we will pool all our money.
    So imho asking for rent is wrong but splitting the bills proportionate to your earnings seems fair to me.
  • planning_ahead
    Assuming she moves in with you and pays something - what will happen if a few years down the line you split up. Could she possibly have a claim to a share in the property as you were in a relationship and she was contributing to the property?

    I don't know the answer to my question - just thought it was something you need to consider.
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