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  • FIRST POST
    • will-in-estoril
    • By will-in-estoril 4th Jan 10, 9:44 AM
    • 838Posts
    • 612Thanks
    will-in-estoril
    0 WOW
    'Puerile' RyanAir slated by OFT
    • #1
    • 4th Jan 10, 9:44 AM
    0 WOW
    'Puerile' RyanAir slated by OFT 4th Jan 10 at 9:44 AM
    For those of you who think RyanAir are all about giving passengers a fair deal please read.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8438837.stm
    RIP independent MSE.
    Died 1st June 2012
Page 1
    • richardw
    • By richardw 4th Jan 10, 9:54 AM
    • 18,998 Posts
    • 8,015 Thanks
    richardw
    • #2
    • 4th Jan 10, 9:54 AM
    • #2
    • 4th Jan 10, 9:54 AM
    So other airlines making money out of card charges is OK then, consistency would be appreciated.
    • benjus
    • By benjus 4th Jan 10, 10:37 AM
    • 5,288 Posts
    • 3,261 Thanks
    benjus
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 10, 10:37 AM
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 10, 10:37 AM
    So other airlines making money out of card charges is OK then, consistency would be appreciated.
    Originally posted by richardw
    I guess Ryanair is being targetted because (1) their charges are higher than other airlines, largely because they charge per person/sector rather than per transaction (are there any other airlines that do this?) and (2) they have just changed their free payment method, perhaps because a significant number of their customers have obtained an Electron card.


    I fly with Ryanair quite a lot, and while I don't find it a hugely pleasurable experience, I find that they do get me reliably from A to B at minimum cost, and are almost always on time.

    It's hard to disagree with many of the statements in that report - they do seem to follow the letter rather than the spirit of the law, and it is like a game in many ways - if you're prepared to play along you can get some very cheap flights.

    I've yet to find another airline that can get me to the south of France for 2 return (my most recent trip with them) - so I will continue to play along... Those who don't like the game are welcome to avoid Ryanair.
    Let's settle this like gentlemen: armed with heavy sticks
    On a rotating plate, with spikes like Flash Gordon
    And you're Peter Duncan; I gave you fair warning
    • richardw
    • By richardw 4th Jan 10, 10:50 AM
    • 18,998 Posts
    • 8,015 Thanks
    richardw
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 10, 10:50 AM
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 10, 10:50 AM
    Other airline Aer Lingus is just as bad http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/Support/helpFeesFares.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0614699200.1262 605619@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccccadejfilmgkecefecfigdffg dfki.0&Category=2&P_OID=-536880753&C_OID=536889337#handlingfees

    "Charges as follows: €5 /5 per person, per flight. Flights originating in the USA, Infant Bookings and Bookings using Visa Electron are not subject to the handling fee."

    No prizes for guessing who is a major shareholder in Aer Lingus.
    Last edited by richardw; 04-01-2010 at 10:52 AM.
    • PolishBigSpender
    • By PolishBigSpender 4th Jan 10, 10:55 AM
    • 3,582 Posts
    • 3,692 Thanks
    PolishBigSpender
    • #5
    • 4th Jan 10, 10:55 AM
    • #5
    • 4th Jan 10, 10:55 AM
    Is this the same Office of Fair Trading who gave up chasing the banks, even when there were some legal options open to them?

    If so, I'm not sure how anyone can take them seriously. Sounds like they're trying to repair the damage done to their reputation and shows that they're only interested in easy targets.
    From Poland...with love.

    They are (they're)
    sitting on the floor.
    Their
    books are lying on the floor.
    The books are sitting just there on the floor.
    • nomoneytoday
    • By nomoneytoday 4th Jan 10, 10:57 AM
    • 4,764 Posts
    • 2,881 Thanks
    nomoneytoday
    • #6
    • 4th Jan 10, 10:57 AM
    • #6
    • 4th Jan 10, 10:57 AM
    BA charge for credit cards too. Debit cards were free when we last used them.
    • rev_henry
    • By rev_henry 4th Jan 10, 11:14 AM
    • 4,875 Posts
    • 2,065 Thanks
    rev_henry
    • #7
    • 4th Jan 10, 11:14 AM
    • #7
    • 4th Jan 10, 11:14 AM
    Other airline Aer Lingus is just as bad http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/Support/helpFeesFares.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0614699200.1262 605619@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccccadejfilmgkecefecfigdffg dfki.0&Category=2&P_OID=-536880753&C_OID=536889337#handlingfees

    "Charges as follows: €5 /5 per person, per flight. Flights originating in the USA, Infant Bookings and Bookings using Visa Electron are not subject to the handling fee."

    No prizes for guessing who is a major shareholder in Aer Lingus.
    Originally posted by richardw
    Ryanair tried to buy Aer Lingus out completely a couple of years ago, but the other major shareholder, the Irish Govt, wouldn't let them.
    • PolishBigSpender
    • By PolishBigSpender 4th Jan 10, 11:23 AM
    • 3,582 Posts
    • 3,692 Thanks
    PolishBigSpender
    • #8
    • 4th Jan 10, 11:23 AM
    • #8
    • 4th Jan 10, 11:23 AM
    Ryanair tried to buy Aer Lingus out completely a couple of years ago, but the other major shareholder, the Irish Govt, wouldn't let them.
    Originally posted by rev_henry
    Blocked by the European Commission too. Buying Aer Lingus was nothing but an attempt to stick two fingers up at the Irish government - and no doubt with Aer Lingus under their ownership, the Dublin Airport owners (the State, I think?) would have no choice but to give Ryanair exactly what they want.

    The sad thing is that the Irish government would rather Aer Lingus go bust than to sell it for a good price to Ryanair.
    From Poland...with love.

    They are (they're)
    sitting on the floor.
    Their
    books are lying on the floor.
    The books are sitting just there on the floor.
  • dmg24
    • #9
    • 4th Jan 10, 11:38 AM
    • #9
    • 4th Jan 10, 11:38 AM
    So other airlines making money out of card charges is OK then, consistency would be appreciated.
    Originally posted by richardw
    The other airlines are not 'headline grabbers' like Ryanair.
    • richardw
    • By richardw 4th Jan 10, 11:43 AM
    • 18,998 Posts
    • 8,015 Thanks
    richardw
    The other airlines are not 'headline grabbers' like Ryanair.
    Originally posted by dmg24
    Please expand further, Aer Lingus are currently advertising 19.99 flights if you use an electron card, not free but still cheap and 'headline grabbing'.
  • inflationbusting
    Rather, I think 'headline grabbing' means the O'Leary way of coveting publicity, whether good or bad.

    I think he wrote somewhere that during these types of headlines (it's the #1 read thing on the BBC), bookings actually increase.
  • dmg24
    Please expand further, Aer Lingus are currently advertising 19.99 flights if you use an electron card, not free but still cheap and 'headline grabbing'.
    Originally posted by richardw
    That is the point, Aer Lingus do something (good or bad) and no one takes much notice - I have not seen any headlines with this offer? An equivalent action by Ryanair makes headline news.

    Whether I agree with Ryanair's actions or not (and I do agree in most cases), inflationbusting makes a very good point. Ryanair thrive on stories like this, it will do them no harm at all - it reminded me to check if they had any cheapies available for Marrakech (nothing at the mo!).

    As with everything Ryanair related, my usual opinion applies - if you are happy to fly with them, do so. If you wish to take your business elsewhere, do so. Happy days!
    • mystic_trev
    • By mystic_trev 4th Jan 10, 6:26 PM
    • 5,147 Posts
    • 15,365 Thanks
    mystic_trev
    BA charge for credit cards too. Debit cards were free when we last used them.
    Originally posted by nomoneytoday
    The weird thing is, you can often book BA flights for the same price using Expedia. I've done this using my AMEX cashback card (no surcharge) and Quidco, so saving myself a few quid.
    • Backbiter
    • By Backbiter 4th Jan 10, 9:35 PM
    • 1,303 Posts
    • 734 Thanks
    Backbiter
    I've made this point before, but still....

    RyanAir's credit card charges bear no relation to the true cost of the transaction.
    RyanAir's airfares bear no relation to true the cost of the journey.

    That's just the way they work and stay in business.
    • will-in-estoril
    • By will-in-estoril 5th Jan 10, 12:37 AM
    • 838 Posts
    • 612 Thanks
    will-in-estoril
    Is this the same Office of Fair Trading who gave up chasing the banks, even when there were some legal options open to them?

    If so, I'm not sure how anyone can take them seriously. Sounds like they're trying to repair the damage done to their reputation and shows that they're only interested in easy targets.
    Originally posted by PolishBigSpender
    The Supreme Court was the end of the line. I am not sure what other options you mean.

    Losing a complex legal case in the highest court in the land after winning in the High Court and Court of Appeal does not mean that there was damage to the OFT's reputation. Are you suggesting that Martin et al, who nailed their colours firmly to the OFT's mast, have been damaged? Campaigners suffer many setbacks but do not give up.

    You make RyanAir sound like some poor, unsuspecting victim, yet it is they who are not being honest in terms of their charges. The real victims are those who are taken in by RyanAir's lack of transparency. Not everyone is completely savvy and streetwise when it comes to RyanAir, which is why the OFT have intervened, in the same way as the ASA intervened and so many of us are appalled by the airline's continuing defiance.

    This latest stunt should convince many of the true nature of this airline.
    RIP independent MSE.
    Died 1st June 2012
    • fifeken
    • By fifeken 5th Jan 10, 6:35 AM
    • 2,345 Posts
    • 1,223 Thanks
    fifeken
    Ryanair's response:

    http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-statement-on-oft-comments
  • inflationbusting
    The OFT haven't intervened though, they've merely passed comment - and at that, a quip from it's boss published in a newspaper.
    Let us say Sir Alex Ferguson says a referee is crap, this isn't the same as Manchester United saying a ref is crap, although it would not be too difficult to treat it as such.

    Now, if Ryanair changed the free payment card tommorow and you didn't find this out until you booked, that would be dishonest. But they gave a fair amount of warning that this would be happening and there was an overlap period.

    As for the other fees such as lost boarding passes, luggage, and so on, these are the same across all budget airlines although it happens to cost a bit more on Ryanair than the others.

    The charges are disclosed upfront - it isn't dishonest. Unpalatable perhaps (especially if you have to use them), but don't confuse the two.

    Also, people need to get out of the school of thought that price should reflect absolute costs - backbiter has it spot on. Price is a tool to help elicit certain customer behaviours. Take a parking ticket - there is a high cost to discourage parking in the first place, and a discount to ensure fast payment.

    The same goes for Ryanair. Fees for a forgotten boarding pass (and airport check-in before it died) are high to discourage this in the first place. Their food is priced so that only the desperate buy it.

    In getting ahead, you often have a choice: you can get smarter, or you can wait for the world to get dumber. Both produce the same result but it astounds me how many people want the latter.
  • old_motters
    The OFT haven't intervened though, they've merely passed comment - and at that, a quip from it's boss published in a newspaper.
    Let us say Sir Alex Ferguson says a referee is crap, this isn't the same as Manchester United saying a ref is crap, although it would not be too difficult to treat it as such.

    Now, if Ryanair changed the free payment card tommorow and you didn't find this out until you booked, that would be dishonest. But they gave a fair amount of warning that this would be happening and there was an overlap period.

    As for the other fees such as lost boarding passes, luggage, and so on, these are the same across all budget airlines although it happens to cost a bit more on Ryanair than the others.

    The charges are disclosed upfront - it isn't dishonest. Unpalatable perhaps (especially if you have to use them), but don't confuse the two.

    Also, people need to get out of the school of thought that price should reflect absolute costs - backbiter has it spot on. Price is a tool to help elicit certain customer behaviours. Take a parking ticket - there is a high cost to discourage parking in the first place, and a discount to ensure fast payment.

    The same goes for Ryanair. Fees for a forgotten boarding pass (and airport check-in before it died) are high to discourage this in the first place. Their food is priced so that only the desperate buy it.

    In getting ahead, you often have a choice: you can get smarter, or you can wait for the world to get dumber. Both produce the same result but it astounds me how many people want the latter.
    Originally posted by inflationbusting
    I think you're absolutely right. You have to be on your toes and very cognisant that any error is going to cost you whether it's your error or theirs.
    • 2010
    • By 2010 5th Jan 10, 7:41 AM
    • 4,244 Posts
    • 3,365 Thanks
    2010
    The OFT is a toothless bulldog, and unless it was actually going to do something (i doubt if it could anyway),might as well have kept quiet.

    The point about RA is that no matter what they keep adding on, at the end of the whole booking process,you KNOW the price.
    If you don`t like it, you don`t buy it.
    The trouble is you`re unlikely to find it cheaper anywhere else.

    Vote with your feet and stop moaning about hidden charges and transparancy.
    Look at the bottom line and if you don`t want to pay 10 for a flight, go elsewhere and pay 50.
    • whatmichaelsays
    • By whatmichaelsays 5th Jan 10, 8:41 AM
    • 2,836 Posts
    • 5,255 Thanks
    whatmichaelsays
    Don't hate the player, hate the game. The OFT have conceeded that Ryanair aren't doing anything wrong, so why not target the actual problem?

    I'd love to work in the Ryanair PR department, what with Which?, the OFT and Daily Mail practically doing your job for you.
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