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    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 10th Oct 17, 12:16 PM
    • 6,441 Posts
    • 4,831 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    I just found this thread, so I joined MSE so I could post.
    We took out our night storage heaters and the Economy 7, and put in Rointe heaters and switched to a Standard electricity tariff.
    Our electricity bills have more than doubled.
    I wish I had found this thread 15 months ago, it would have saved me a lot of money.
    It cost us over 4k to put all the heaters in, and now our bills are huge.
    I am posting this here so that other people can find it hopefully, and avoid making the same mistake that I did.
    Originally posted by Jimbobmz
    Thanks for your input, sadly too late for yourself but a generous contribution like yours might well help others avoid an expensive mistake.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 11th Oct 17, 9:27 AM
    • 3,397 Posts
    • 1,858 Thanks
    lstar337
    I just found this thread, so I joined MSE so I could post.
    We took out our night storage heaters and the Economy 7, and put in Rointe heaters and switched to a Standard electricity tariff.
    Our electricity bills have more than doubled.
    Originally posted by Jimbobmz
    Sorry to hear that Jimbobmz.

    I wish I had found this thread 15 months ago, it would have saved me a lot of money.
    It cost us over 4k to put all the heaters in, and now our bills are huge.
    Originally posted by Jimbobmz
    We have asked repeatedly to have a thread explaining the issues with switching away from E7 NSH to direct electric heaters as a 'sticky' but we always seem to go unheard.

    I am posting this here so that other people can find it hopefully, and avoid making the same mistake that I did.
    Originally posted by Jimbobmz
    Very good of you. You could have just walked on by, but you took the time to make others aware.

    Thank you for your contribution.
    • Gashead86
    • By Gashead86 1st Nov 17, 1:50 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gashead86
    Hi Guys,

    Just stumbled across this forum completely accidentally and having just read it from start to finish have found it very useful!

    I run a small property maintenance company working out of a small (500 square foot approx) office. We only have electric in this office and are on an economy 7 tariff with both a day and night rate.
    We have a standard CCU powering all of our lights, sockets etc etc and the economy 7 CCU running 6 night storage heaters.
    Said storage heaters are some 20 years old and have one by one started to die on me... Being a property maintenance company we have electricians who work for us on occasion and one such engineer happened to be on the office the other day, so I collared him and asked him for his opinion on our heating system on the whole.
    It was his opinion that we were better off getting rid of the economy seven completely and fitting 6 Roite electric heaters and taken them back to the main CCU and of course running them off of the standard 'day' rate..
    Having looked into this a little more I am both unsure of my options and also pretty sure that the Roite option is going to be expensive!

    My question is this.... Given my scenario above, what are my options realistically? Am I better off keeping my E7 rate and simply replacing all of the NSH's with new modern heaters that will allow me to control the heat throughout the day? Am I better off removing the existing E7 CCU completely and fitting new 'any time use' panel heaters powered from the main CCU? Or is there an option I have not thought of?

    My fear is that if I were to remove the E7 option and run everything off of the standard circuit whilst it would undoubtedly be far more convenient, I fear there would be a very large increase in our bills.

    For reference, our existing rate is 20p per unit in hours and 10p out of hours (very very approx).

    Any help you guys can offer will be seriously appreciated! We are starting to freeze in here with the weather turning and I really do need to sort it!

    Thanks in advance guys!
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 1st Nov 17, 3:42 PM
    • 3,397 Posts
    • 1,858 Thanks
    lstar337
    If you know what your current ratio of day/night usage is it would be helpful. Also, do you have hot water and how is that heated?

    Firstly, I assume you are only there basic office hours? and that heat at night isn't really needed except to keep a chill off.

    As I see it, you have 3 real options.

    1. Stay on E7 and fix/replace your current NSH's.

    2. Ditch E7 and go for direct electric (convector, etc.) heaters.

    3. Ditch E7 and go for (space/location permitting) an air source heat pump.

    It is really hard for us to say which is best because we don't know the characteristics of the space. But....

    1. Fixing storage heaters is usually pretty easy. The parts are simple and cheap, and repair difficulty is on par with wiring a plug. Replacement can be pricey if you go with newer models, but no more pricey than your average Rointe heater which is no more advanced than a 30 heater from Argos. Once fixed/repaired, your bills will no different or a little cheaper (depending on NSH you choose) than they were before.

    2. Convectors/Oil rads are pretty cheap to buy. You should be looking at no more than 100 each unless you wants something really fancy looking. Rointe heaters offer no real heat/cost/comfort benefit over a 30 heater from Argos. They do look quite nice (personal opinion), but that is all. Do you need to pay in excess of 500 per heater for the looks? You will need to lose the E7 if you take this root, which means you will be paying 20p for every kWh they consume (or 120 for all six). *This doesn't mean they will use 1.20/hour all the time. They might only be operational for 1hr of the time you are there.

    3. Air source heat pumps (air conditioning to the common man) are a split system with a unit outside and a blower inside. They work just like a fridge in reverse. They extract heat from outside and bring it inside, with the advantage that they can also work in reverse as air conditioning. They are able to offer more heat out than the electricity they consume because they are just moving heat about instead of creating it through a resistive load. The upshot is you can sometimes get 5kW of heat out for only 1kW of electricity used. I have underlined sometimes because the actual figure varies depending on how much heat is available outside at the time. You would need to ditch E7, but you would have a system that used less electricty than convector heaters. Note that systems can be expensive to install.

    If it were me, I would probably fix or replace the NSH. It is the least intrusive option (especially if you can fix) that will offer the cheapest ongoing heating costs.

    Hope that helps.
    • lucyt261
    • By lucyt261 6th Nov 17, 3:49 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    lucyt261
    Night Storage Heaters
    Hi

    I started reading this thread as I googled Rointe radiators. I have read many posts from this thread and would appreciate some confirmation regarding my conclusions.

    I have a one bedroom flat that I am renovating in order to let out. It does not have a gas supply. It does have night storage heaters that the council have said need replacing and so has a E7 supply. I would very much like to put the correct sort of heating for prospective tenants as I do not want complaints about high electricity bills. I would imagine the tenant will be working and out most of the day.

    Do I stick with E7, buy up-to-date night storage heaters, along with detailed instructions on how to use them properly? Whilst it is an expensive option, it may be better in the long run.

    Or do I buy panel heaters (not Rointe as there is no point going to the expense).

    Many thanks in advance
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 6th Nov 17, 4:54 PM
    • 27,646 Posts
    • 13,570 Thanks
    Cardew
    Welcome to the forum.

    There is no 'correct sort of heating'; both your options are viable; and both will draw complaints for high running costs.

    Storage heaters on an E7 tariff will be cheaper to run; you will also get your hot water heated at E7 off-peak rates, also appliances(washing machine*, dryer, dishwasher) can be set to operate at night.

    On the other hand storage heaters are not popular with many people and they cannot be bothered to learn how to operate them properly.

    * Some blocks of flats ban late night operation of washing machines because of noise.
    • mwinlow
    • By mwinlow 29th Nov 18, 2:39 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    mwinlow
    Rointe 'Thermostatic' Control Stinks
    Hi,

    An interesting (if rather old) thread. My 2p-worth...

    I moved into a small 2-bed cottage on an island off the west coast of Scotland (same latitude as Glasgow and in the Gulf Stream so not *that* cold) a year ago. It has Rointe panel heaters installed in all the main rooms - 2 receps and 2 beds - with (much) older brick-filled night storage heaters in kitchen and upstairs landing. Bathrooms have a large electrically-heated towel rail in each.

    The Rointe heaters are all around 1.5kW and are big enough to heat the rooms, but... the cost is *staggering* (my electric bill was over 2000 for this last year to date - late Nov 2018). I have a 'heating control' tariff with SSE which has an off-peak period during the night and a boost for an hour or so in the late afternoon. I generally only keep the heater on in the one recep room as I spend most of my day time in there and, according to an energy meter plugged into the supply, it uses about 2 per day just for that one room (5m x 5m - with one 1.5m sq window - alu double-glazed). This is to get it up to 'warm' (about 22C) by 0800 and off by 1800.

    The other recep room has a small wood burner in it that I try to use most evenings (if needed) as the fuel is free (if I can be bothered to go out and collect it) so the Rointe in there is used for only 3-4 hours a day.

    Unfortunately, the Rointe's built-in thermostatic control does not appear to function in any meaningful way as setting the desired temperature on the (God-awful - more later) control panel appears to make no difference or not at least between a set 22C and 18C - I haven't tried it outside this range but, as I say, it does not appear to make any difference to how much heat is supplied wherever it is set.

    On the control panel front, the buttons are fiddly to use and I would think anyone with any sort of physical impairment would find them nigh on impossible. On top of that, there is no auto BST/GMT switching facility (seriously?! - in 2018?!!!). On top of *that*, to program a whole weeks-worth of times (even if all the week day and weekend settings are the same) you have to program each day individually by means of the worst system of button-presses I have ever seen on a programable device.

    So, in short, unless you get the - no doubt - *much* more expensive wifi-based ones (which, for all I know are just as badly designed as the basic ones I have but would, I imagine allow you to program them from the comfort of your favourite armchair) forget it! They look pretty and produce decent heat but that is pretty much all they have going for them.

    Martin Winlow
    Isle of Colonsay
    HND Mech Eng, MSc Ag Eng.
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 29th Nov 18, 4:21 PM
    • 6,441 Posts
    • 4,831 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    Hi,

    An interesting (if rather old) thread. My 2p-worth...

    I moved into a small 2-bed cottage on an island off the west coast of Scotland (same latitude as Glasgow and in the Gulf Stream so not *that* cold) a year ago. It has Rointe panel heaters installed in all the main rooms - 2 receps and 2 beds - with (much) older brick-filled night storage heaters in kitchen and upstairs landing. Bathrooms have a large electrically-heated towel rail in each.

    The Rointe heaters are all around 1.5kW and are big enough to heat the rooms, but... the cost is *staggering* (my electric bill was over 2000 for this last year to date - late Nov 2018). I have a 'heating control' tariff with SSE which has an off-peak period during the night and a boost for an hour or so in the late afternoon. I generally only keep the heater on in the one recep room as I spend most of my day time in there and, according to an energy meter plugged into the supply, it uses about 2 per day just for that one room (5m x 5m - with one 1.5m sq window - alu double-glazed). This is to get it up to 'warm' (about 22C) by 0800 and off by 1800.

    The other recep room has a small wood burner in it that I try to use most evenings (if needed) as the fuel is free (if I can be bothered to go out and collect it) so the Rointe in there is used for only 3-4 hours a day.

    Unfortunately, the Rointe's built-in thermostatic control does not appear to function in any meaningful way as setting the desired temperature on the (God-awful - more later) control panel appears to make no difference or not at least between a set 22C and 18C - I haven't tried it outside this range but, as I say, it does not appear to make any difference to how much heat is supplied wherever it is set.

    On the control panel front, the buttons are fiddly to use and I would think anyone with any sort of physical impairment would find them nigh on impossible. On top of that, there is no auto BST/GMT switching facility (seriously?! - in 2018?!!!). On top of *that*, to program a whole weeks-worth of times (even if all the week day and weekend settings are the same) you have to program each day individually by means of the worst system of button-presses I have ever seen on a programable device.

    So, in short, unless you get the - no doubt - *much* more expensive wifi-based ones (which, for all I know are just as badly designed as the basic ones I have but would, I imagine allow you to program them from the comfort of your favourite armchair) forget it! They look pretty and produce decent heat but that is pretty much all they have going for them.

    Martin Winlow
    Isle of Colonsay
    HND Mech Eng, MSc Ag Eng.
    Originally posted by mwinlow

    Again thanks for your input mwinlow, sadly too late for yourself but a generous contribution like yours might well help others avoid an expensive mistake.

    Clearly you are maximising your benefit of the 10 hour split [two rate meter] across the core/night-rate in three periods in the single room you spend most of your waking time in.

    For myself the issue is not the wi-fi but the core-rate Kyros heater versus night-rate NSH & water heating.

    NSH would give you fully automatic maintenance free heating and 100 litres of bubbling boiling water at a saving of 600 per annum and a very considerably cheaper installation cost.

    An interesting (if rather old) thread
    Hardly .. .. its been added to over the years by many good people such as yourself ans long may this repository of 'facts' continue to be available to users. Best of luck Martin.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • Louise Clark
    • By Louise Clark 1st Dec 18, 12:06 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Louise Clark
    Hi re concern of new flat with Roonte heaters
    Hi maybe you could please help me out I have moved into a flat 8 weeks ago and thought initially there was a technical fault with this new system : ive addressed it with the landlord who doesn't agree with me re the inefficiency of this system . I'm
    A nurse in need of some heat after work only for a few hours but running these heaters at 30 max makes very little change to freezing rooms ; any advice as now winter and I've borrowed a friends halogen tonight heats the room up : I'm concerned re cost of the Rointe system and from
    Day 1 I've said it doesn't seem to work !! Thankyou
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 1st Dec 18, 1:21 AM
    • 6,441 Posts
    • 4,831 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    Not a fault with the system. Just IMO the very worst domestic heating system ever missold sold into UK housing stock. The system is designed to be on 24/7 @ whatever tariff rate you contracted for.

    I assume you are in Scotland.

    Your (on demand) 10 [red] alogen heater serves you well @ the same tariff rate and transfers direct heat to a human body. An electric over/under blanket and a couple of supplimentary panel (not bad convention) radiative heaters will 'tide you over' till you find alternative accommodation. Best of luck.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • trevcoze
    • By trevcoze 9th Jan 19, 6:24 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    trevcoze
    There's another snake oil German electric radiator supplier called South West heating dot co dot uk that lies about storage heaters and unbelievably they have been awarded Which Trusted Trader status. Of course they can edit out bad reviews at will.
    • mackamus
    • By mackamus 12th Jan 19, 10:47 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    mackamus
    Help with choosing NSH
    Hi


    This thread has been a wonderful resource, just wanted to take the opportunity to thank everyone for their input. Saying that, was wondering if anyone would be able to point me in the right direction.


    I live in Scotland, and am currently the occupant of a ground-floor middle one bedroom flat in a block of 8 (4 ground, 4 first floor). The floors are concrete. I have enquired about getting gas installed and had two different gas engineers pretty much tell me that it would be too expensive, too much hassle and not worth the investment. I am currently on an Economy 7 tariff, as I have an immersion water heater so I can take advantage of the cheaper rates to heat my water. I unfortunately do not have any kind of heating installed, and instead having been making use of plug in oil-heaters and convector to provide heat. I spoke to an electrician about getting proper heating installed as my SO is moving in, and cannot handle the cold as well as I can - and as anyone who lives in the the central belt will tell you it gets cold in Scotland! The electrician pointed me towards Rointe heaters, but having found this thread I have now been thoroughly put off these!


    I was thinking of going down the NSH route, as many of my neighbours have these kinds of heaters. However, having done some basic research I am unsure what are the best on the market or trusted brands. Can anyibe give me some advice please? I was thinking either fan-assisted or combination NSH, and as I will be looking to sell in the foreseeable future looking for something that will be unlikely to put off prospective buyers,


    Thanks in advance
    A
    • pooch
    • By pooch 13th Jan 19, 12:15 AM
    • 775 Posts
    • 367 Thanks
    pooch
    Hi


    This thread has been a wonderful resource, just wanted to take the opportunity to thank everyone for their input. Saying that, was wondering if anyone would be able to point me in the right direction.


    I live in Scotland, and am currently the occupant of a ground-floor middle one bedroom flat in a block of 8 (4 ground, 4 first floor). The floors are concrete. I have enquired about getting gas installed and had two different gas engineers pretty much tell me that it would be too expensive, too much hassle and not worth the investment. I am currently on an Economy 7 tariff, as I have an immersion water heater so I can take advantage of the cheaper rates to heat my water. I unfortunately do not have any kind of heating installed, and instead having been making use of plug in oil-heaters and convector to provide heat. I spoke to an electrician about getting proper heating installed as my SO is moving in, and cannot handle the cold as well as I can - and as anyone who lives in the the central belt will tell you it gets cold in Scotland! The electrician pointed me towards Rointe heaters, but having found this thread I have now been thoroughly put off these!


    I was thinking of going down the NSH route, as many of my neighbours have these kinds of heaters. However, having done some basic research I am unsure what are the best on the market or trusted brands. Can anyibe give me some advice please? I was thinking either fan-assisted or combination NSH, and as I will be looking to sell in the foreseeable future looking for something that will be unlikely to put off prospective buyers,


    Thanks in advance
    A
    Originally posted by mackamus
    Dimplex are probably the most well known manufactuer of NSHs used in the UK.
    Creda are probably considered to be their biggest competitor.
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 13th Jan 19, 12:48 AM
    • 6,441 Posts
    • 4,831 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    "The electrician pointed me towards Rointe heaters"

    - he would, the commission is more than 5 days hourly rate

    Rock and hard place, like your neibours its E7/10 or plug-on-demand-core-rate. E10/18 is the luxury price tariff and Dimplex Quantum is the luxury end of NSH.

    Advice based on your home is not possible other than :

    - NSH are either 9/12/18 bricks
    - enough installed storage (of the cheap stuff) bricks is the secret
    - radiative is better than (seagulls feet) convective
    - your dwelling - you decide - best of luck
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 13th Jan 19, 9:24 AM
    • 27,646 Posts
    • 13,570 Thanks
    Cardew
    Hi


    This thread has been a wonderful resource, just wanted to take the opportunity to thank everyone for their input. Saying that, was wondering if anyone would be able to point me in the right direction.


    I live in Scotland, and am currently the occupant of a ground-floor middle one bedroom flat in a block of 8 (4 ground, 4 first floor). The floors are concrete. I have enquired about getting gas installed and had two different gas engineers pretty much tell me that it would be too expensive, too much hassle and not worth the investment. I am currently on an Economy 7 tariff, as I have an immersion water heater so I can take advantage of the cheaper rates to heat my water. I unfortunately do not have any kind of heating installed, and instead having been making use of plug in oil-heaters and convector to provide heat. I spoke to an electrician about getting proper heating installed as my SO is moving in, and cannot handle the cold as well as I can - and as anyone who lives in the the central belt will tell you it gets cold in Scotland! The electrician pointed me towards Rointe heaters, but having found this thread I have now been thoroughly put off these!


    I was thinking of going down the NSH route, as many of my neighbours have these kinds of heaters. However, having done some basic research I am unsure what are the best on the market or trusted brands. Can anyibe give me some advice please? I was thinking either fan-assisted or combination NSH, and as I will be looking to sell in the foreseeable future looking for something that will be unlikely to put off prospective buyers,


    Thanks in advance
    A
    Originally posted by mackamus
    Even though you heat water at night, an E7 tariff without storage heating will probably work out more expensive than a 'normal' 24/7 tariff. This is because the daytime rate on an E7 tariff is higher than the 24/7 tariff, and the savings at night rate may not compensate for this extra expenditure.


    You also need to check the electrical wiring in your flat to check if it is suited for NSH. Also, particularly in Scotland, there are other forms of off-peak supply.


    Most properties with E7 these days have 7 hours at off-peak supply and all electricity consumed in that 7 hours is at cheap rate. However some properties are wired so only NSH and immersion heaters use cheap rate and all other lights/sockets use day rate.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 13th Jan 19, 11:36 AM
    • 9,044 Posts
    • 10,591 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    I live in Scotland, ... I unfortunately do not have any kind of heating installed,
    Originally posted by mackamus
    Check the Energy Saving Trust website as there may be grants towards a new E7 storage heating system.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 13th Jan 19, 1:38 PM
    • 6,441 Posts
    • 4,831 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    "The electrician pointed me towards Rointe heaters"

    - he would, the commission is more than 5 days @hourly rate
    - zero installation costs/time about the same as plugging in a 13a kettle
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
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