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    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 1st Nov 09, 10:51 AM
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    MSE Guy
    0 WOW
    MSE News: Air fares to rise as Government hikes taxes
    • #1
    • 1st Nov 09, 10:51 AM
    0 WOW
    MSE News: Air fares to rise as Government hikes taxes 1st Nov 09 at 10:51 AM
    This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

    "The price of flying rises today for most, as a hiked Government tax on air travel comes into force..."

    Read the full story:
    Air fares to rise as Government hikes taxes
    Last edited by MSE Guy; 02-11-2009 at 11:10 AM.
Page 1
  • hbc1981
    • #2
    • 1st Nov 09, 11:34 AM
    • #2
    • 1st Nov 09, 11:34 AM
    "The hike comes into effect on all flights from today, even if booked in advance. Further rises are due in November next year."

    So, If I've booked flights for next year, is the airline gonna come back to me demanding more cash?
    • apt
    • By apt 1st Nov 09, 12:13 PM
    • 3,087 Posts
    • 1,750 Thanks
    apt
    • #3
    • 1st Nov 09, 12:13 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Nov 09, 12:13 PM
    Rip-off? There is a huge government deficit to narrow and aviation is less heavily taxed than other forms of transport. Which taxes do you think should go up instead?
    Last edited by apt; 04-11-2009 at 1:19 PM.
    • Altarf
    • By Altarf 1st Nov 09, 3:36 PM
    • 2,857 Posts
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    Altarf
    • #4
    • 1st Nov 09, 3:36 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Nov 09, 3:36 PM
    The price of flying rises today for all
    Originally posted by MSE Guy
    Not if you are flying to Turkey, The Canary Islands, Madeira, Morocco, and a few other places.

    For those destinations the tax is coming down by 3/4rs. Yes there are some big rises for those traveling to Australia, New Zealand, and other far flung places.

    I bet there are far more people who travel to Turkey and the Canary Islands who will benefit from this change.
    Last edited by Altarf; 01-11-2009 at 3:39 PM.
  • Incapuppy
    • #5
    • 1st Nov 09, 4:20 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Nov 09, 4:20 PM
    What a rip off.
    Originally posted by Kenny Powers

    Tsk, tsk Mr Powers. As you are fairly new to this forum I should like to point out that some people are of the belief that if someone calls something a rip-off then it very rarely is! :rolleyes:
    • PolishBigSpender
    • By PolishBigSpender 1st Nov 09, 4:26 PM
    • 3,582 Posts
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    PolishBigSpender
    • #6
    • 1st Nov 09, 4:26 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Nov 09, 4:26 PM
    Tsk, tsk Mr Powers. As you are fairly new to this forum I should like to point out that some people are of the belief that if someone calls something a rip-off then it very rarely is! :rolleyes:
    Originally posted by Incapuppy
    By some people, you mean me, you and quite a few others?

    Yet more bad 'journalism' - as has been pointed out on these forums, APD is calculated on capital city to capital city, so that many destinations are actually benefiting from less APD.

    I'd say that for the vast amount of people using this forum, APD has actually fallen.
    From Poland...with love.

    They are (they're)
    sitting on the floor.
    Their
    books are lying on the floor.
    The books are sitting just there on the floor.
    • malkie76
    • By malkie76 3rd Nov 09, 12:10 PM
    • 5,673 Posts
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    malkie76
    • #7
    • 3rd Nov 09, 12:10 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Nov 09, 12:10 PM
    It's obviously not a rip-off if it's extremely clear and totally optional.
    • PolishBigSpender
    • By PolishBigSpender 3rd Nov 09, 1:38 PM
    • 3,582 Posts
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    PolishBigSpender
    • #8
    • 3rd Nov 09, 1:38 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Nov 09, 1:38 PM
    It's obviously not a rip-off if it's extremely clear and totally optional.
    Originally posted by malkie76
    BUT IT'S A RIPOFF BECAUSE I WANT PAID FOR MY FLIGHTS TO THE CANARY ISLANDS SO I CAN EAT MORE FRIED BREAKFASTS AND DRINK MORE BRITISH LAGER LIKE MY FAVOURITE STELLA ARTOIS AND BECKS.

    ahem.
    From Poland...with love.

    They are (they're)
    sitting on the floor.
    Their
    books are lying on the floor.
    The books are sitting just there on the floor.
  • Donnie
    • #9
    • 3rd Nov 09, 3:08 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Nov 09, 3:08 PM
    Not if you are flying to Turkey, The Canary Islands, Madeira, Morocco, and a few other places.

    For those destinations the tax is coming down by 3/4rs. Yes there are some big rises for those traveling to Australia, New Zealand, and other far flung places.

    I bet there are far more people who travel to Turkey and the Canary Islands who will benefit from this change.
    Originally posted by Altarf
    I don't see any of countries you have mentioned having lower charges.

    Which countries actually have lower charges? Does anyone know?

    http://www.abta.com/about/lobbying_and_government_affairs/air_passenger_duty
    • dickydonkin
    • By dickydonkin 4th Nov 09, 7:29 AM
    • 2,916 Posts
    • 2,934 Thanks
    dickydonkin
    Now now children, and here was me thinking this was a serious discussion on saving cash - not a forum for silly bickering! (Am I allowed to state that as I do not have many posts - shoot me at dawn if you must!)

    Seriously though, one way to reduce the taxes on long haul is to use a mainland european hub such as CDG or AMS.(The Netherlands actually scrapped their APD recently after realising it was stifling tourism) You will then only be contributing to the UK 'green' tax on the shortest sectors (UK to mainland europe).

    Furthermore, you will likely find that the price of flights from carriers such as KLM and Air France are much cheaper than say BA or Virgin and frequently have good offers.

    Happy Flying
    Last edited by dickydonkin; 04-11-2009 at 7:48 AM.
    • dickydonkin
    • By dickydonkin 4th Nov 09, 7:46 AM
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    dickydonkin
    BUT IT'S A RIPOFF BECAUSE I WANT PAID FOR MY FLIGHTS TO THE CANARY ISLANDS SO I CAN EAT MORE FRIED BREAKFASTS AND DRINK MORE BRITISH LAGER LIKE MY FAVOURITE STELLA ARTOIS AND BECKS.

    ahem.
    Originally posted by PolishBigSpender
    I think you will find that Stella Lager is Belgian and Becks is a German Brew.

    AHEM

    Not if you are flying to Turkey, The Canary Islands, Madeira, Morocco, and a few other places.

    For those destinations the tax is coming down by 3/4rs. Yes there are some big rises for those traveling to Australia, New Zealand, and other far flung places.

    I bet there are far more people who travel to Turkey and the Canary Islands who will benefit from this change
    I stand to be corrected, but I was under the impression that the amount of APD to be paid was based on banding not by a specific destination.

    It's obviously not a rip-off if it's extremely clear and totally optional.
    If I have to travel to say Australia or the Far East to meet a business client - obviously having to get there by air travel, how would the APD be totally optional when I have no choice but to fly? - even rerouting by mainland Europe as I have described in a previous post I would still need to pay APD on the departure from the UK.

    The only 'option' to avoid APD would be not to fly and allow a competitor to get my business.
    Last edited by dickydonkin; 04-11-2009 at 8:52 AM.
    • malkie76
    • By malkie76 4th Nov 09, 9:27 AM
    • 5,673 Posts
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    malkie76
    I think you will find that Stella Lager is Belgian and Becks is a German Brew.
    I think you'll find he was making a joke

    If I have to travel to say Australia or the Far East to meet a business client - obviously having to get there by air travel, how would the APD be totally optional when I have no choice but to fly?
    It's optional because you are making the decision and choosing to fly - hence the charge can't technically be described as a 'rip-off' (a term commonly mis-used on these forums.

    I totally agree that the government have you over a barrel, and could be impacting directly on your ability to do international business (as they are for me too). However, if you are fully aware of the cost of something, and you choose to pay it then you can't claim that you've been ripped off.

    There are loads of taxes which are totally unfair (high rate income tax in particular), yet we all have the choice to move abroad if we are unhappy with the situation in this country. I lived overseas for many years, and honestly the grass isn't any greener.
  • tightwadman
    Apd
    Jenny Keefe, MoneySavingExpert.com consumer products analyst, says: "Sadly, there's not a lot you can do about flight tax.
    Sorry Jenny but you are so wrong - yes you can absolutely save a lot of money on an average family of four by NOT taking long haul flights out of UK airports anymore. You buy a ticket which takes you to into Europe say Amsterdam and Paris and connect to your flight to say Florida from there. This is the only way I will be travelling long haul from now on and I dont care about the connecting flight. You will only be charged the European "tax" band.

    For those unbelievable people who think this tax is a good idea what planet do you come from? This APD is supposed to be a green tax to help the environment - it very clearly is not and our lovely chancellor recently admitted as much. I feel sorry for UK airlines but I am not going to pay this tax if I can find means of avoiding it or reducing it and I have!

    Take connecting flights into Europe and save money! Kerching.....
    • malkie76
    • By malkie76 4th Nov 09, 11:10 AM
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    malkie76
    Millions of people have to travel (myself included) and i have no option but to pay the tax.
    Originally posted by Kenny Powers
    Incorrect - absolutely no one has to travel. It's your choice to fly.
    • PolishBigSpender
    • By PolishBigSpender 4th Nov 09, 12:37 PM
    • 3,582 Posts
    • 3,692 Thanks
    PolishBigSpender
    I think you will find that Stella Lager is Belgian and Becks is a German Brew.

    AHEM
    Originally posted by dpassmore
    Obviously irony isn't your strong point, then

    If I have to travel to say Australia or the Far East to meet a business client - obviously having to get there by air travel, how would the APD be totally optional when I have no choice but to fly? - even rerouting by mainland Europe as I have described in a previous post I would still need to pay APD on the departure from the UK.
    You use video conferencing. The technology is mature enough now to be reliable - and there is quite frankly no need for anyone to fly round the world for a business meeting - and in this case, the high APD actually does discourage such travel. It is totally optional - if you use greener technologies, you don't pay APD. Simple.

    The only 'option' to avoid APD would be not to fly and allow a competitor to get my business.
    In today's environment-centred world, especially with the damage done to Australasia - I suspect any potential client would be endeared by your green credentials in not flying halfway round the world for a meeting.
    From Poland...with love.

    They are (they're)
    sitting on the floor.
    Their
    books are lying on the floor.
    The books are sitting just there on the floor.
    • malkie76
    • By malkie76 4th Nov 09, 2:02 PM
    • 5,673 Posts
    • 6,698 Thanks
    malkie76
    I could sit and give you a million reasons why some people have to fly, but i know id be wasting my time on you.
    Originally posted by Kenny Powers
    A top 10 list would be enough, please. Your subsequent post was subjective waffle - what concrete examples can you give us?
    • malkie76
    • By malkie76 4th Nov 09, 2:17 PM
    • 5,673 Posts
    • 6,698 Thanks
    malkie76
    You said 'millions', I asked for 10, and you reply with 2, neither of which absolutely need travel.

    Paperwork can always been handled via post or better still electronically. Visiting family is entirely a choice and definitely not absolutely required.

    You'll have to try a little harder or conceed my point.
    • malkie76
    • By malkie76 4th Nov 09, 2:29 PM
    • 5,673 Posts
    • 6,698 Thanks
    malkie76
    Thank you for conceeding my point. If you can't support your claims with sensible arguements then please don't post them

    You clearly don't have to travel for business and don't have the ability to understand things
    Yet another glorious assumption from yourself based on nothing but hot air. If you'd read a few of my posts you'd realise just exactly how much business travel I do. I choose to travel, and accept paying the taxes on it, and don't grumble about paying for something that I do out of choice.
    Last edited by malkie76; 04-11-2009 at 2:33 PM.
    • dickydonkin
    • By dickydonkin 6th Nov 09, 9:35 AM
    • 2,916 Posts
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    dickydonkin
    [QUOTE=malkie76;26566373]I think you'll find he was making a joke


    It's optional because you are making the decision and choosing to fly - hence the charge can't technically be described as a 'rip-off' (a term commonly mis-used on these forums.

    I totally agree that the government have you over a barrel, and could be impacting directly on your ability to do international business (as they are for me too). However, if you are fully aware of the cost of something, and you choose to pay it then you can't claim that you've been ripped off.

    I never stated or claimed in previous posts that APD was a 'rip off' and you have not convinced me that it is totally 'optional' as many people have no choice but to fly to destinations whether it is for business, work, or indeed sometimes life saving treatment, therefore for many, APD can hardly be described as optional when no other suitable modes of transport are available when one has to travel overseas with time restraints.

    So how can these people "choose" to pay APD when there is no other alternative? I would replace the word 'choose' with 'forced'.

    I am fully aware that we in the UK have to pay for a TV licence. I know that this is a legal requirement, but I and many others in this country believe it is a 'rip off'. BTW A rip off is in the eye of the beholder.

    We are all aware of the TV licence fee (and using your interpretation), does that suggest the TV licence fee is not a 'rip off'? Again, using your rationale, the TV licence is then deemed as 'optional'?

    I suspect that argument would be blown out of the water by the magistrate after not paying my TV licence. Like APD for air travel, the TV licence is mandatory if you own one.

    Of course, you do not have to own a TV, but for many people, it is their only form of entertainment and pleasure as is flying away on holiday to get away from this hell hole. And there the government have the population 'over a barrel' - which virtually means - no choice!

    So get rid of your car, never fly again and chuck the TV in the bin. Ah well, we do have a choice then!

    Unfortunately, like many forms of leisure pursuits such as travel and entertainment, the government are finding new ways to extract various forms of stealth taxes. The duty on fuel is a prime example.

    Take note that the three examples of stealth taxes given - TV LICENCE - APD -AND FUEL EXCISE DUTY (AND THE VAT ON SAID FUEL DUTY) can also be classed as optional if we do not travel, own a car or television.

    We may as well all be dead for God's sake - oh -forgot about inheritance tax - they even have you when you are dead!

    We have many stealth taxes in this country - many of which we are aware of - but just because we know we have to pay them - does not mean it is 'optional'. And yes I am going to use the quote again that is "regularly misused on these forums" - many of the stealth taxes ARE rip offs!

    I am not even going there about the lager!
    Last edited by dickydonkin; 06-11-2009 at 10:08 AM.
    • dickydonkin
    • By dickydonkin 6th Nov 09, 9:58 AM
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    • 2,934 Thanks
    dickydonkin
    Obviously irony isn't your strong point, then

    Certainly not - take the pi$$ out of the British if you like (previous post), but I would suggest you keep your own counsel on that one. I know many amusing stereotypical jokes about the Polish, but tend to keep such puerile comments to myself.

    You use video conferencing. The technology is mature enough now to be reliable - and there is quite frankly no need for anyone to fly round the world for a business meeting - and in this case, the high APD actually does discourage such travel. It is totally optional - if you use greener technologies, you don't pay APD. Simple.

    Arguably, you may find that SOME may be potentially discouraged from flying resulting in a reduced load on an aircraft that will be scheduled to fly that journey anyway. Hardly environmentally friendly is it?

    As for VC, that facility is somewhat restrictive and only suitable for limited situations.

    In today's environment-centred world, especially with the damage done to Australasia - I suspect any potential client would be endeared by your green credentials in not flying halfway round the world for a meeting.
    Originally posted by PolishBigSpender
    While at the same time being endeared to ones green credentials, a seemingly admirable gesture indeed, the client then offers the business/contract to a company that can be bothered to make the effort to meet face to face.

    I am sure that a client in say India, China or the US for example where the bottom line is all that matters - and who do not give a toss for the environment, would hardly be impressed.
    Last edited by dickydonkin; 06-11-2009 at 10:02 AM.
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