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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Natasha
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Should Theo undercut Duncan's work at double pay?
    • #1
    • 18th Aug 09, 5:02 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Should Theo undercut Duncan's work at double pay? 18th Aug 09 at 5:02 PM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Should Theo undercut Duncan's work at double pay?

    Colleagues Theo and Duncan work for a company where overtime's scarce and it often struggles to find people to cover. Duncan hears that extra work's available for one person and grabs it, negotiating himself triple time for the evening. When Theo hears about it he's miffed he didn't get in first, as he has a new baby so money's tight and he's always focused his cash on his family.

    Should Theo undercut Duncan's work at double pay?

    Click reply to have your say

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    Last edited by Former MSE Natasha; 18-08-2009 at 8:24 PM.
Page 1
    • scotsbob
    • By scotsbob 18th Aug 09, 5:51 PM
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    scotsbob
    • #2
    • 18th Aug 09, 5:51 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Aug 09, 5:51 PM
    Yes of course he should.

    Tough luck on Duncan if he went in with too high a bid.

    That'll teach him to be too greedy.

    .
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 18th Aug 09, 6:20 PM
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    Gavin83
    • #3
    • 18th Aug 09, 6:20 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Aug 09, 6:20 PM
    Yeah he should. It's business after all and like most businesses they'll go for the cheaper offer. The only point I guess Duncan could still get the overtime on triple pay is if he is vastly better at his job than Theo, in which case he can demand a higher sum.

    Duncan should expect a rift but if it's not too much of a problem in his eyes then go for it.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 18th Aug 09, 6:31 PM
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    custardy
    • #4
    • 18th Aug 09, 6:31 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Aug 09, 6:31 PM
    or Duncan should get in first next time and enjoy the triple pay,given the precidence is set
    • Flickering Ember
    • By Flickering Ember 18th Aug 09, 7:34 PM
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    Flickering Ember
    • #5
    • 18th Aug 09, 7:34 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Aug 09, 7:34 PM
    Yes, he should go for it.
    Flickering Embers grow higher and higher...I need a break and I wanna be a paperback writer!
    • tallgirld
    • By tallgirld 18th Aug 09, 10:54 PM
    • 476 Posts
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    tallgirld
    • #6
    • 18th Aug 09, 10:54 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Aug 09, 10:54 PM
    No he shouldn't the cheapskate!! He should wait until overtime is offered again and then he should also do it for triple time. If he undercuts this time, the company is unlikely to offer triple time again as he is prepared to do it for less.

    If money's tight he should go and get a better paid job or get a second one!!
  • Blobby8
    • #7
    • 19th Aug 09, 12:22 AM
    • #7
    • 19th Aug 09, 12:22 AM
    "as he has a new baby so money's tight and he's always focused his cash on his family." So why do they struggle to find people to do overtime ?
    • Cloudane
    • By Cloudane 19th Aug 09, 12:47 AM
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    Cloudane
    • #8
    • 19th Aug 09, 12:47 AM
    • #8
    • 19th Aug 09, 12:47 AM
    Can't see why not, but it really depends. If it's going to sour his relationship with the other, then maybe it's best not to - remember, they still have to work together. If you're enough of a.. "toot".. in the workplace, then people can end up driving you out, which would be worse financially.

    Morally though I don't see a huge problem assuming he's not in a worse situation.

    (I half expected the question to be "Should Duncan give up his overtime and let Theo have it" - which also depends. You shouldn't let others take advantage of you, so it depends whether the other guy is like that, or is a nicer person.)
    • qetu1357
    • By qetu1357 19th Aug 09, 7:32 AM
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    qetu1357
    • #9
    • 19th Aug 09, 7:32 AM
    • #9
    • 19th Aug 09, 7:32 AM
    For consistency, can anyone who think Theo should undercut Duncan's pay please publish here what they do, how much they get paid and where they work?

    Then any readers can contact their employer and uncut them!
    • Taffybiker
    • By Taffybiker 19th Aug 09, 7:39 AM
    • 917 Posts
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    Taffybiker
    Duncan and Theo should agree to take turns when overtime becomes available. Everyone's a winner.
    Try saying "I have under-a-pound in my wallet" and listen to people react!
  • spudz
    I agree with those who have said that Theo should wait till overtime is offered again and make sure he gets in first so that he can negotiate triple time as well. He needs to think long term not short term. Its okay undercutting Duncan now and getting the overtime at double time but that is then setting a precident and the company probably won't negotiate triple time with anyone again.
    • Magic-Ian
    • By Magic-Ian 19th Aug 09, 8:06 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Magic-Ian
    No he should not. He should try negotiating with Duncan and get triple next time. It happened in the NHS where people fought over overtime. Now there is no "overtime" you just work more hours on "bank" at flat rate. All because some people wanted extra hours at any cost.
    • relaxtwotribes
    • By relaxtwotribes 19th Aug 09, 9:01 AM
    • 256 Posts
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    relaxtwotribes
    The dilemma suggests that the company would renege on its agreement with Duncan in order to reach a cheaper deal with Theo. What does that tell you about the morals of the company?
    • catch22
    • By catch22 19th Aug 09, 9:15 AM
    • 536 Posts
    • 252 Thanks
    catch22
    He could ask Duncan to share the hours or wait...

    I don't know why the statement below is important? Don't people without children have a right to earn extra money, the same applies to flexible time?

    'he has a new baby so money's tight and he's always focused his cash on his family.'

    catch22
  • Summer76
    Whoever gets in first should get the. Theo may have a baby, but that does not make him any more worthy of getting the overtime. Duncan may have other commitments of his own that he needs the money for. Children are not the only financial burden that people have.
  • Stampede
    Who on earth thinks these dilemmas up ..

    The company has a contract already at triple time .. that stands and can not be set aside just because with hindsight some one else thinks they could have had a better deal.

    It sounds a real dog eat dog workplace .. maybe they all need to get their collective act to-gether sorting out how overtime will be offered, shared and the appropriate rate.

    Within reason I think employees have some moral responsibility to try and help the employer by being willing acepting overtime and at a reasonable rate for all concerned .. after all it is surely in everyones interests for the company to survive.

    If the situation is that there is difficulty completing the work during normal hours maybe the company should look at hiring more staff taking someone off the unemployment register, even if it is part time.

    Now that would be a real moral dilemma for all wouldn't it ..how willing would the regular staff be to accept their ordinary work and pay, no worries about double or triple time .. just the knowledge that someone else can start to feed their family, no longer being on the dole, and they can go all home when the whistle blows. Sorted ?

    totally debt free, just normal every day bills, and money saved in the bank for that rainy day when the roof needs repairing - my late Mum's advice - RIP
    • JayD
    • By JayD 19th Aug 09, 10:18 AM
    • 517 Posts
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    JayD
    They are colleagues - not mates.
    Times are hard. Each should do whatever he can to ensure a stable future and that bills are paid - and if possible, save a bit for even tougher tiimes.

    If Theo can negotiate a deal, let him try - and next time he should be more alert to what is on offer and act sooner!
    • A.Jones
    • By A.Jones 19th Aug 09, 10:27 AM
    • 506 Posts
    • 441 Thanks
    A.Jones
    > Colleagues Theo and Duncan work for a company where overtime's scarce and it often struggles to find people to cover.


    The company / boss clearly needs to look at how it / (s)he advertises when the scarce overtime is available. The dilemma says overtime is scarce and it struggles to find people to cover. Yet two people are willing to do it. So why is it struggling to find people when people are willing to do it?

    Theo could go to the boss and undercut Duncan, but then he should expect Duncan to go back to the boss and undercut him. And so it will go on until they reach rock bottom. If they both really need the cash then one of them will end up doing the work at standard rate.

    Theo should go to the boss and tell him/her he is willing to do overtime in the future (but not this time as Duncan is already down to do it) so could he be informed / considered when the next overtime allocation is available.
  • altimate
    We all have a duty of care to one another.
    Its called loving your neighbour as you love yourself.
    This is the greatest commandment.....so..
    the two of them should work any over time out between them.
    • LameWolf
    • By LameWolf 19th Aug 09, 11:08 AM
    • 10,870 Posts
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    LameWolf
    First come first served.

    If Theo's that strapped for cash, he should have had his eye on the ball and got in first to grab the overtime.
    LameWolf
    If your dog thinks you're the best, don't seek a second opinion.
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