Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    blueback
    Charging Order? The myth
    • #1
    • 26th Jul 09, 11:28 AM
    Charging Order? The myth 26th Jul 09 at 11:28 AM
    I feel that this is so important that I thought a new thread should be made to highlight the importance of understanding the law on Charging Orders and how many people are stuck with their property in the false believe that they have had a Charging Order put on their property.

    In particular the thousands of Northern Rock customers that have had unsecured debt turned into secured debt by their tactics.

    If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction.

    The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor.

    However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to decieve you believing you are stuck with a CO.

    However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them

    Quote:

    Restriction


    The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-
    No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.Ö).
    You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.


    So I hope I have provided benefit to everyone who has had a restriction entered against them (especially NORTHERN ROCK CUSTOMERS) who believe wrongly that they are Charging Orders.

    You now have the freedom to go and sell your houses with the knowledge that the vultures can do nothing

    I also think this VERY IMPORTANT point needs highlighting by the moderators as many many people are stuck with houses that they believe they cannot sell
Page 178
  • Land Registry
    Thanks Land Registry


    The restriction wording as follows:


    `No disposition of the registered estate, other than a disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge registered before the entry of this restriction, is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or their conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to (Banks name and solicitor)`


    Although we are not selling, I take it this would still prevent us just adding our daughter name to the deeds?
    Originally posted by sampete
    It catches the Transfer from 2 to 3 so you'd need to notify the Bank/Solicitor as mentioned. That's just notifying them so on it's own is easily done.

    The key Q you really need to be asking is what impact does adding your daughter have. I'm guessing you've looked into that but if not then worth getting some legal/financial advice
    ďOfficial Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • sampete
    • By sampete 6th Feb 18, 6:47 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    sampete
    LR
    Many thanks for your advice
    • MSE Andrea
    • By MSE Andrea 9th Feb 18, 11:43 AM
    • 8,974 Posts
    • 21,733 Thanks
    MSE Andrea
    bump bump Friday bump
    Could you do with a Money Makeover?


    Follow MSE on other Social Media:
    MSE Facebook, MSE Twitter, MSE Deals Facebook, MSE Deals Twitter, Forum Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest
    Join the MSE Forum
    Get the Free MoneySavingExpert Money Tips E-mail
    Report inappropriate posts: click the report button
    Point out a rate/product change
    Flag a news story: news@moneysavingexpert.com
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 9th Feb 18, 1:23 PM
    • 502 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    Well, no surprises there.
    After hijacking/hacking this thread, moving posts without informing people & and being incredibly rude about the content, to boot, that malicious thread has now been closed! D45
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 9th Feb 18, 1:39 PM
    • 13,776 Posts
    • 13,092 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Well, no surprises there.
    After hijacking/hacking this thread, moving posts without informing people & and being incredibly rude about the content, to boot, that malicious thread has now been closed! D45
    Originally posted by DAKOTA45
    Your thread, along with others, fell victim to a spam attack.

    MSE are in the process of reinstating these threads, after a lot of hard work tracing them.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 9th Feb 18, 1:43 PM
    • 502 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    Your thread, along with others, fell victim to a spam attack.

    MSE are in the process of reinstating these threads, after a lot of hard work tracing them.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    I thought as much! Thank you for putting our thread back. D45
    • sampete
    • By sampete 9th Feb 18, 7:10 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    sampete
    many thanks to all involved in reinstating this unique thread
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 9th Feb 18, 10:27 PM
    • 12,170 Posts
    • 9,205 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Your thread, along with others, fell victim to a spam attack.

    MSE are in the process of reinstating these threads, after a lot of hard work tracing them.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    Hope they find Weggy's Full & Final Settlement thread
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 10th Feb 18, 12:02 AM
    • 13,776 Posts
    • 13,092 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Hope they find Weggy's Full & Final Settlement thread
    Originally posted by fatbelly
    I think itís on the list, if not Iíll check.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • omariqy
    • By omariqy 12th Feb 18, 4:10 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    omariqy
    Hi all

    My father had a debt and in 2011 a charging order (or restriction) was put in place on the property. I think the debt was a few thousand pounds. He passed away in 2016 and my mother is thinking of selling the property. Is the charge still valid? Do we have to inform them of the sale and repay them first?
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 12th Feb 18, 8:12 PM
    • 1,274 Posts
    • 654 Thanks
    eggbox
    If the Restriction is still showing on the deeds it has to be dealt with (one way or the other?)

    But if your Mom is nowthe sole owner of the property she can still add someone she trusts to the deeds, to become a joint owner, and deal with the Restriction in the manner this thread is explaining.
    • omariqy
    • By omariqy 13th Feb 18, 10:58 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    omariqy
    If the Restriction is still showing on the deeds it has to be dealt with (one way or the other?)

    But if your Mom is nowthe sole owner of the property she can still add someone she trusts to the deeds, to become a joint owner, and deal with the Restriction in the manner this thread is explaining.
    Originally posted by eggbox
    Thanks eggbox. I see you have helped many people on here. I haven't been able to go through every page on this topic so I may have missed something. They were joint tenants before my father passed away. Reading around the subject it seems that my mom and the creditor are now tenants in common? Is there anyway to do a deal and reduce the debt amount and pay it off without selling the house? Or transfer it to the next house?
    • Iwanttobefree
    • By Iwanttobefree 14th Feb 18, 5:53 PM
    • 1,307 Posts
    • 3,315 Thanks
    Iwanttobefree
    Is the info in post 1 still valid for 2018?

    Sorry but there's 3500 posts in it, and I cant read therm all.

    Many thanks
    I went to the doctor the other day, Lady Doctor, She says

    "We've got your test results back, we know what it is.

    You've got beating heart disease" Howard Devoto 2009
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 14th Feb 18, 6:36 PM
    • 1,274 Posts
    • 654 Thanks
    eggbox
    Yes the information posted is still valid
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 14th Feb 18, 7:55 PM
    • 1,274 Posts
    • 654 Thanks
    eggbox
    They were joint tenants before my father passed away. Reading around the subject it seems that my mom and the creditor are now tenants in common?
    Originally posted by omariqy
    No the creditor is not a tenant in common and your Mom is entitled to be the sole owner. The debtor still only has a legal interest in the "beneficial interest" of the debtor and that will now have passed to the, legal estate, your father has left though his passing.

    Is there anyway to do a deal and reduce the debt amount and pay it off without selling the house? Or transfer it to the next house?
    Originally posted by omariqy
    You can contact the creditor at anytime to see if they are willing to accept a reduced amount to settle the debt in full and final settlement.

    Its won't be possible for the creditor to transfer the debt to another property, in your circumstances, as the debtor wouldn't be able to have an interest in the property through being deceased.
    • secondchances
    • By secondchances 19th Feb 18, 2:42 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    secondchances
    Hi I need a bit of advice.
    I jointly own a mortgaged property with my wife. I had two ccjs from personal credit cards that came with restrictions in 2009.
    We are now at a point where we want to remortgage the property. there is still money owing on both the restrictions. has anyone managed to remortgage without clearing of these restrictions?
    I am getting conflicting advise everywhere I go. I have a mortgage offer in principle waiting to go and I have spoke with them and they didn't seem too sure. and said it may have an impact on getting the mortgage they wont know until I go to the next stage, but it is at that point I have to start laying out fees. I don' want to waste any money if it is not going to be possible.
    any help or recommendations of a solicitor who knows their way around this type of situation?
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 20th Feb 18, 11:24 AM
    • 1,274 Posts
    • 654 Thanks
    eggbox
    SECONDCHANCES

    Getting a remortgage is, normally, not possible. This is simply because mortgage companies insist on being the first charge on the deeds of your house. Any new lending, therefore, without removing the Restrictions wouldn't achieve this.

    Mortgage companies insist on being the first charge holder as it retains "power of sale". Should you default on the mortgage the power of sale enables the first charge holder to remove any other charges off the deeds to enable the property to be sold "unencumbered".

    As the mortgage amount will, usuaully, far outweigh any other loans or charges on the deeds the mortgage lender won't usually lend unless this criteria is met? Depending on the amount required, though, you may be able to aquire a secured loan where such criteria is less rigid as lenders will know they have to be behind the mortgage lender.
    • RJ51
    • By RJ51 22nd Feb 18, 11:48 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    RJ51
    Hi All

    Can anyone recommend a solicitor they have used who is experienced in dealing with restrictions regarding house sales?
    • WardyP
    • By WardyP 6th Mar 18, 1:38 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    WardyP
    Thank you so much for this response - I wasn't notified of a reply, hence the delay.


    My sister has now had to get a solicitor involved. With threats of court, her ex has now provided a settlement figure from Toyota in the region of £14.5k. In that he's not even paying the CSA payments for their daughter, I'm sure the financial summary, income/expenditure form submitted to Toyota will be laughable.
    There's clearly no way my sister now wants to pay off this level of debt (she was considering if it was a couple of thousand), espcially as her ex has clearly paid absolutely zilch since they divorced and agreed to the Court Order stipulating his responsibility for repaying this debt.


    Given that the once sole debt became secured against a jointly owned property, do Toyota not have an obligation to update both parties in relation to this debt?
    I'm pretty sure that under FCA regulations, they should have some obligations towards ensuring that my sister is kept fully aware of the status / level of debt secured against her property.
    Can anyone offer any advice on this?
    Although her solicitor is looking to take her ex to court regarding breach of the Court Order (so I understand), I am curious as to whether Toyota have been negligent in their responsibilities also?
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 7th Mar 18, 3:30 PM
    • 1,274 Posts
    • 654 Thanks
    eggbox

    Given that the once sole debt became secured against a jointly owned property, do Toyota not have an obligation to update both parties in relation to this debt?
    Originally posted by WardyP
    Its jointly owned but the CO split the ownership type to tennants in common (2 individual shares). The debt is only against on of those shares so they have no responsibility to inform the other share owner.

    I'm pretty sure that under FCA regulations, they should have some obligations towards ensuring that my sister is kept fully aware of the status / level of debt secured against her property.
    Originally posted by WardyP
    No they don't. The CO is not made against the property, it's against the debtors "beneficial interest" (share of the equity) in the property. So they have no obligation to explain anything to your sister as it's nothing, legally, to do with her. Once a CCJ has been granted the creditor also has no obligation to update the debtor, either.

    Although her solicitor is looking to take her ex to court regarding breach of the Court Order (so I understand), I am curious as to whether Toyota have been negligent in their responsibilities also?
    Originally posted by WardyP
    Toyota have no legal obligations in notifying your sister of the debt does not relate to her. To do so would also breach the Data Protection Act.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

257Posts Today

3,318Users online

Martin's Twitter