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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 14th Apr 06, 11:47 AM
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    MSE Martin
    Martins View On Using Mortgage Brokers...
    • #1
    • 14th Apr 06, 11:47 AM
    Martins View On Using Mortgage Brokers... 14th Apr 06 at 11:47 AM
    Hi,

    As its often debated here 'to broker or not to broker' I thought I would briefly lay out my thoughts.

    "The right broker is a big benefit. Far better to go to a broker than direct to one lender who will simply try and flog you their own mortgage. They will look after the market and possibly bring you better negotiating power Overall I'm a broker fan!"

    Of course there are ifs and buts. The two key questions to ask a broker are

    "are you whole of market?"

    and

    "do you charge a fee?".

    If the answers are yes and no then... whey hey hey... we're off to a good start. If the answer is anything else I would seek another broker.


    IMPORTANT NOTE: Please read the relevant articles


    Remember this is the Chat Forum, its for discussion by lots of parties. However the main information on this site is in the articles section. Please do read those before getting involved in discussions which will often get very technical.

    The two most relevant for this are "Get top mortgage advice for free article" or even better, its included in the free 28 page MoneySavingExpert guide to remortgaging available as printed guide or download a PDF (or read more)

    What about the brokers answering questions on here?

    First of all say thank you. Many of them do a great job without renumeration for it. It's a great place to ask. Of course its always worth remembering just because someone says they are a broker doesn't mean they are, however, the vast majority on here are genuine and want to help.

    Can they generate business from here?

    Touting for business is strictly forbidden. However if someone helps you out, and you feel they can help you, if you approach one of the mortgage brokers on the site I've no problem with them helping you.

    Do check out the "whole of market" and "fees free" notes above to make sure they are right for you though. And double check they are genuine, ask to see their creditials and that they're authorised by the regulator, the FSA.

    Hope this helps

    Martin


    Last edited by MSE Helen Saxon; 14-01-2015 at 2:45 PM.
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.

    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.

    Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
Page 33
    • ACG
    • By ACG 6th Jan 17, 9:27 PM
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    ACG
    I would say take a look on google, call up one or 2 and have a chat with them. Then go from there with it.

    Vouchedfor and unbiased are services paid for by brokers, im not sure they are really an indication of good or bad brokers.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • lauren_hb
    • By lauren_hb 6th Jan 17, 9:37 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    lauren_hb
    I had a look on google it seemed the same ones cropped up that were also on vouchedfor and unbiased. I expected more results from google actually, I don't live in a tiny place or anything!
    • lauren_hb
    • By lauren_hb 6th Jan 17, 11:12 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    lauren_hb
    Also when I've looked at qualifications for mortgage brokers what should I be looking for?
    Some I've looked at say IPS CeMAP certificate in mortgage advice and practice
    Others say CII certificate in mortgage advice.
    What do I want them to have?
    • ACG
    • By ACG 6th Jan 17, 11:16 PM
    • 17,500 Posts
    • 9,312 Thanks
    ACG
    Just have a chat with one or 2 and see if you have confidence in them.

    CII or IFS are both the same qualification, just by different governing bodies. So either is fine, but you will find they all have one or the other asit is compulsary.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • lauren_hb
    • By lauren_hb 7th Jan 17, 9:13 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    lauren_hb
    Thanks very much for your advice.
    • cahillg81
    • By cahillg81 8th Jan 17, 1:20 AM
    • 239 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    cahillg81
    Hi Lauren,

    I started another thread earlier to ask other brokers on here if any of them used Vouchedfor or any of the other sites as I wanted to know if they would provide any value to me as a Self Emloyed broker.

    What has been stated above ACG is spot on in that brokers pay for these services and I know with Vouchedfor you invite the clients to leave a review so these can be controlled somewhat assuming you send the invites to the correct clients.

    My advice and I tell the people I speak to daily is always ask for referrals, i do this in every line of work i undertake. I seek opinions so even although you may not know someone who has bought a house recently ask friends or family who have maybe re-mortaged lately? Use social media?

    In Martin's post in 2006 he posed two questions:

    1) are you whole of market (some brokers use the term whole of market but that doesn't necessarily mean they can deal with every lender - they can do things off panel they may not get a procuration fee or they may be part of a mortgage club that doesn't have every lender on their books. Ordinarily so long as a broker has the likes of Accord/Bank of Ireland/Barclays/Clydesdale/Halifax/HSBC/NatWest/ Nationwide/ Platform/Skipton/Santander (to name but a few you can pretty much guarantee they will be sourcing you one of if not the best deal in the market place)

    2) do you take a fee - Martin says look for a roker who doesn't take a fee - personally I take a fee and I think mines is under market value but I have an agreement that provides lots of leads so its the rough with the smooth - I would personally guard against dealing with someone who wasnt taking a fee. In my experience of working on the other side i used to find the cases submitted from brokers not charging for their service was of a poorer quality. I won't name any names but if you search a few threads on here you will get an idea of really bad fee free advisors.

    My golden rules when advising people are:

    1) Is your advice fully impartial
    2) If you have a fee is anything paid up front (If so I'd say you could move them to theside)
    3) What guarantees do you provide me - personally I don't take a fee until the official mortgage offer - that means my clients know i am still working for them all the way through.
    4) Did it feel right - by that i mean how did the convrsation go I will turn people away if I don't get the right feeling from the initial meeting. I will also ask potential clients not to use me if they didn't feel we clicked initially.
    5) Was the advisor/broker interested in me and my family or did it feel like I was just a number?

    I use the above for trying to generate business and I fit it all into my intial conversation with clients - i appreciate it that probably doesn't come across as well in an e-mail.

    But it's more or less a more expanded version of what ACG said. I just wanted to put more meat around it for you.
    I am a Mortgage & Protection Broker

    MSE doesn't check my status so you have to take my word for it. Any information posted is for discussion only and should not be seen as advice. I am FCA Registered, registration details available on request.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 8th Jan 17, 8:49 AM
    • 4,889 Posts
    • 3,122 Thanks
    csgohan4
    I got mine from this forum and worked well. Personal preference how you find yours.
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
    • lauren_hb
    • By lauren_hb 8th Jan 17, 3:51 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    lauren_hb
    Hi Lauren,

    I started another thread earlier to ask other brokers on here if any of them used Vouchedfor or any of the other sites as I wanted to know if they would provide any value to me as a Self Emloyed broker.

    What has been stated above ACG is spot on in that brokers pay for these services and I know with Vouchedfor you invite the clients to leave a review so these can be controlled somewhat assuming you send the invites to the correct clients.

    My advice and I tell the people I speak to daily is always ask for referrals, i do this in every line of work i undertake. I seek opinions so even although you may not know someone who has bought a house recently ask friends or family who have maybe re-mortaged lately? Use social media?

    In Martin's post in 2006 he posed two questions:

    1) are you whole of market (some brokers use the term whole of market but that doesn't necessarily mean they can deal with every lender - they can do things off panel they may not get a procuration fee or they may be part of a mortgage club that doesn't have every lender on their books. Ordinarily so long as a broker has the likes of Accord/Bank of Ireland/Barclays/Clydesdale/Halifax/HSBC/NatWest/ Nationwide/ Platform/Skipton/Santander (to name but a few you can pretty much guarantee they will be sourcing you one of if not the best deal in the market place)

    2) do you take a fee - Martin says look for a roker who doesn't take a fee - personally I take a fee and I think mines is under market value but I have an agreement that provides lots of leads so its the rough with the smooth - I would personally guard against dealing with someone who wasnt taking a fee. In my experience of working on the other side i used to find the cases submitted from brokers not charging for their service was of a poorer quality. I won't name any names but if you search a few threads on here you will get an idea of really bad fee free advisors.

    My golden rules when advising people are:

    1) Is your advice fully impartial
    2) If you have a fee is anything paid up front (If so I'd say you could move them to theside)
    3) What guarantees do you provide me - personally I don't take a fee until the official mortgage offer - that means my clients know i am still working for them all the way through.
    4) Did it feel right - by that i mean how did the convrsation go I will turn people away if I don't get the right feeling from the initial meeting. I will also ask potential clients not to use me if they didn't feel we clicked initially.
    5) Was the advisor/broker interested in me and my family or did it feel like I was just a number?

    I use the above for trying to generate business and I fit it all into my intial conversation with clients - i appreciate it that probably doesn't come across as well in an e-mail.

    But it's more or less a more expanded version of what ACG said. I just wanted to put more meat around it for you.
    Originally posted by cahillg81
    Thank you for going in to such detail! Feel a bit more confident in what to do now. I've tried asking on social media and seems most people used an in house one from the estate agents which I defiantly don't want to do!
    Will do our research in the meantime whilst we're making sure we've got everything together and paperwork organised a broker may want to see.
    • hosk
    • By hosk 22nd Dec 17, 1:20 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    hosk
    Disadvantages of using Brokers
    There can be significant disadvantages to using a mortgage broker.

    (a) By using a mortgage broker you are inserting a 3rd party between you and the lender. You will not be able to contact the lender directly with any queries you may have and you will need to rely on the broker's staff to do all that for you. If you try to contact the lender during the application process they will not discuss your case with you and they will simply refer you back to the broker.

    (b) Brokerages have their own resource demands, objectives and priorities so you cannot expect an instant response to your queries of the lender - like you would get if you went directly to the lender - and there will typically be a 2 working days time-lag between asking a question of the lender (via the broker) and receiving a response. Essentially the pace of progressing your mortgage application will be dictated by your mortgage broker.

    In my recent experience the broker was taking over a week to process queries between me and the lender. This caused considerable stress as we were up against a tight deadline set by the property developers. Eventually we managed to get a contact at the lender to provide us with the information we needed and they told us that the broker had not contacted them to ask for it - even though the broker told me on three separate occasions that they had requested it and were waiting for a response from the lender.

    (c) The main lenders have invested millions of pounds in their customer facing and back office processes with the specific intention of supporting direct business. They will often provide better interest rates and other financial incentives to customers who do not use brokers. An example is HSBC who are currently advertising their best-in-class deals to direct customers only.

    (d) Using a broker does not necessarily mean you will get the best deal and there are lots of free comparison websites out there to find the best mortgage deals for you, including this one. You don't necessarily need a broker to tell you what the best deals are.
    NB The deal I got came with 500 cash-back. I later learned that if I had gone direct I would have got 1000 cash-back and the same interest rate
    • ACG
    • By ACG 22nd Dec 17, 1:44 PM
    • 17,500 Posts
    • 9,312 Thanks
    ACG
    There can be significant disadvantages to using a mortgage broker.

    (a) By using a mortgage broker you are inserting a 3rd party between you and the lender. You will not be able to contact the lender directly with any queries you may have and you will need to rely on the broker's staff to do all that for you. If you try to contact the lender during the application process they will not discuss your case with you and they will simply refer you back to the broker.
    Some lenders will speak to you about your case,
    but why would you do that? Call centre staff at lenders are no where near as good as an experienced broker. You are paying for a broker who knows your situation inside out. Why would you want to speak to someone who does not know you from adam?


    (b) Brokerages have their own resource demands, objectives and priorities so you cannot expect an instant response to your queries of the lender - like you would get if you went directly to the lender - and there will typically be a 2 working days time-lag between asking a question of the lender (via the broker) and receiving a response. Essentially the pace of progressing your mortgage application will be dictated by your mortgage broker.

    In my recent experience the broker was taking over a week to process queries between me and the lender. This caused considerable stress as we were up against a tight deadline set by the property developers. Eventually we managed to get a contact at the lender to provide us with the information we needed and they told us that the broker had not contacted them to ask for it - even though the broker told me on three separate occasions that they had requested it and were waiting for a response from the lender.
    It sounds like your broker was lacking. I know my clients cases inside out, I tell them about time frames and during that period there will be no news. I take on a limited amount of business so that I am available 95% of the week should they need me.
    (c) The main lenders have invested millions of pounds in their customer facing and back office processes with the specific intention of supporting direct business. They will often provide better interest rates and other financial incentives to customers who do not use brokers. An example is HSBC who are currently advertising their best-in-class deals to direct customers only.
    Thats not correct. It is not incorrect, but there is not a definitive answer for this. HSBC only work with a limited number of brokers. But there are lenders where I can get better deals (significantly better deals) than if you went direct. You will probably also find the process far quicker through a broker 9 times out of 10. Banks are big institutions and have a lot more compliance to go through. I can have a 45 minute appointment with a customer, a 10-15 minute follow up call and they would not need to do anything else until their offer is issued. A lender could not get close to that.

    (d) Using a broker does not necessarily mean you will get the best deal and there are lots of free comparison websites out there to find the best mortgage deals for you, including this one. You don't necessarily need a broker to tell you what the best deals are.
    NB The deal I got came with 500 cash-back. I later learned that if I had gone direct I would have got 1000 cash-back and the same interest rate
    Originally posted by hosk
    Fully agree with this. A broker is not always best and neither is going direct. You seem to keep suggesting a broker can not get you the best deal, but you are assuming the best deal for everyone is lowest rate/biggest cashback etc. It sounds like you have had a bad experience and so in your eyes brokers are useless. In my opinion a brokers job is to help you get the best deal (that can be cheapest, quickest, easiest, most flexible,
    individual underwriting etc.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • kingstreet
    • By kingstreet 22nd Dec 17, 2:25 PM
    • 34,122 Posts
    • 18,513 Thanks
    kingstreet
    As the OP (hosk) was in my sector, newbuild, I'd be interested in finding out if a warehouse-type broker was used as these tend to be favoured by the bigger builders; or a smaller one like us which prides itself on its speed and service.
    I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Please do not send PMs asking for one-to-one-advice, or representation.
    • amnblog
    • By amnblog 22nd Dec 17, 11:02 PM
    • 10,738 Posts
    • 4,260 Thanks
    amnblog
    There can be significant disadvantages to using a mortgage broker.
    Originally posted by hosk
    You won’t find many borrowers that would have this view.

    (a) By using a mortgage broker you are inserting a 3rd party between you and the lender. You will not be able to contact the lender directly with any queries you may have and you will need to rely on the broker's staff to do all that for you. If you try to contact the lender during the application process they will not discuss your case with you and they will simply refer you back to the broker.
    Originally posted by hosk
    If you are using a good Broker there won’t be any queries, that’s the point.

    (b) Brokerages have their own resource demands, objectives and priorities so you cannot expect an instant response to your queries of the lender - like you would get if you went directly to the lender - and there will typically be a 2 working days time-lag between asking a question of the lender (via the broker) and receiving a response. Essentially the pace of progressing your mortgage application will be dictated by your mortgage broker.

    In my recent experience the broker was taking over a week to process queries between me and the lender. This caused considerable stress as we were up against a tight deadline set by the property developers. Eventually we managed to get a contact at the lender to provide us with the information we needed and they told us that the broker had not contacted them to ask for it - even though the broker told me on three separate occasions that they had requested it and were waiting for a response from the lender.
    Originally posted by hosk
    Pace of processing is always dictated by the Lender. A Broker is your best chance of keeping things moving as they understand the process and what to expect from the Lender.

    (c) The main lenders have invested millions of pounds in their customer facing and back office processes with the specific intention of supporting direct business. They will often provide better interest rates and other financial incentives to customers who do not use brokers. An example is HSBC who are currently advertising their best-in-class deals to direct customers only.
    Originally posted by hosk
    Lenders are generally pulling out of direct business as they cannot generate profit on it without risk. They don’t have sufficient trained staff to give the advice.

    Good luck with HSBC.

    (d) Using a broker does not necessarily mean you will get the best deal and there are lots of free comparison websites out there to find the best mortgage deals for you, including this one. You don't necessarily need a broker to tell you what the best deals are.
    NB The deal I got came with 500 cash-back. I later learned that if I had gone direct I would have got 1000 cash-back and the same interest rate
    Originally posted by hosk
    Deals are of no value if the Lender won’t accept your case.

    Comparison sites feature Lenders for financial reasons. They provide no advice, accept no responsibility, and add little to the process.
    I am a Mortgage Broker

    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Broker, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 22nd Dec 17, 11:20 PM
    • 94,517 Posts
    • 62,466 Thanks
    dunstonh
    (a) By using a mortgage broker you are inserting a 3rd party between you and the lender. You will not be able to contact the lender directly with any queries you may have and you will need to rely on the broker's staff to do all that for you. If you try to contact the lender during the application process they will not discuss your case with you and they will simply refer you back to the broker.
    Not necessarily so. A third party effectively exists if you use bank staff. The staff member is not the one making the decisions. Plus, bank staff have more limited access to underwriting than mortgage brokers do. Bank staff have to accept what they are told. Brokers have multiple angles of attack they can use. A few months back, one of my mortgage brokers was getting the run around from the lender so I phoned them up and spoke to their compliance department and got them involved and they overturned the decision. A bank clerk couldnt do that.

    (b) Brokerages have their own resource demands, objectives and priorities so you cannot expect an instant response to your queries of the lender - like you would get if you went directly to the lender - and there will typically be a 2 working days time-lag between asking a question of the lender (via the broker) and receiving a response. Essentially the pace of progressing your mortgage application will be dictated by your mortgage broker.
    As would bank staff on any unusual stuff. With mainstream applications, there is no difference.

    In my recent experience the broker was taking over a week to process queries between me and the lender. This caused considerable stress as we were up against a tight deadline set by the property developers. Eventually we managed to get a contact at the lender to provide us with the information we needed and they told us that the broker had not contacted them to ask for it - even though the broker told me on three separate occasions that they had requested it and were waiting for a response from the lender.
    That is not good. However, we have come across bank staff members going on holiday and leaving the application in their desk with the branch having no other mortgage authorised individuals covering for 2 weeks.

    (c) The main lenders have invested millions of pounds in their customer facing and back office processes with the specific intention of supporting direct business. They will often provide better interest rates and other financial incentives to customers who do not use brokers. An example is HSBC who are currently advertising their best-in-class deals to direct customers only.
    Actually, the lenders have invested more in dealing with brokers and there are more mortgages arranged by brokers than there is by the lenders own staff.

    d) Using a broker does not necessarily mean you will get the best deal and there are lots of free comparison websites out there to find the best mortgage deals for you, including this one. You don't necessarily need a broker to tell you what the best deals are.
    NB The deal I got came with 500 cash-back. I later learned that if I had gone direct I would have got 1000 cash-back and the same interest rate
    And not using a broker does not necessarily mean you will get the best deal either. At different times, different lenders will have different deals that favour one distribution or the other.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • diddly92
    • By diddly92 17th Apr 18, 4:27 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    diddly92
    Mortgage Brokers
    Hi guys, I'm quite new to the site (surprisingly!). I had quite a specific question on getting some financing for a new house and any help would be much appreciated (I hope I'm posting this in the right thread).

    So, I'm looking to purchase a new house and I was hoping to use some financing from 2 other houses which we own. Those two houses are sitting in a trust which I am an administrator for. The total value of the two houses currently should well exceed the value of the house that I am looking to purchase.

    I guess I wanted some general advice on my thoughts, and whether a mortgage broker could help me arrange the funds?

    Thanks again!
    • kingstreet
    • By kingstreet 17th Apr 18, 5:18 PM
    • 34,122 Posts
    • 18,513 Thanks
    kingstreet
    Copy your post.

    Come out of this thread and click the blue "New Thread" button on the left hand side, then paste your post into a new thread.
    I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Please do not send PMs asking for one-to-one-advice, or representation.
    • toshkininny
    • By toshkininny 18th Apr 18, 10:49 AM
    • 1,115 Posts
    • 622 Thanks
    toshkininny
    Does Scottish Widows mortgages come up on comparison websites, I haven't seen them.
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