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    Taking legal action against Amway or IBS
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 06, 12:24 AM
    Taking legal action against Amway or IBS 12th Jan 06 at 12:24 AM
    Hope I'm in the right board (or that mods will quickly put me in the correct place).

    Was foolish enough to believe the hype and fantasy world shown to me by Amway and IBS (International Business Systems based in Frome). Became an Amway distributor in 1995 and followed the IBS training system (books, tapes, seminars and meetings with mentors) until the end of 2001. In total, I've spent over £20,000 chasing a system that now turns out to be about building empires for the few leaders who sell the training system.

    I'd like to know if anyone else is in the same boat and if they have managed to recover costs from IBS or Amway. I believe that we were deliberatley misled over several years and that this was deliberate fraud as has now been shown by the number of 'leaders' who have been caught up in tax scams etc.

    I'm in Scotland, so the law may be slightly different, but if any legal experts can advise me if it looks like there may be a case to pursue I'll happily provide all the details I can.

    Finally decided to face my stupidity and hopefully prevent some other people from getting caught in the same 'brainwashing' 'cult' that tok place.

    Any advice from any quarter gratefully recieved and you can PM me as weel.


    MLM victim
Page 2
    No real value in tapes on Ebay unfortunately.

    Just noticed this thread no longer appears in Google at all. Going to post on Techie thread to see if anyone knows if Amway or IBS can somehow block searches on Google.
  • Angel2
    Counter Balance
    I have read the foregoing entries with interest but feel I need to respond simply to balance the arguments. Sorry if it ends up being a little long.

    My background is one of economics, marketing and customer service in several industries and I have been involved in the start up of a couple of small businesses too. I have been a distributor with both IBS and Amway for some 16 years, never reaching further than the lower levels; indeed I have rarely made a profit. In that time, I have also bought pretty well every tape, CD or book available as well as other tools required. I have been to every function, with a couple of exceptions, and have seen distributors come, go and stay. Above all, I have had an excellent opportunity to observe both IBS and Amway over that time and feel qualified to make the following observations. Be aware I have no other connection with these organisations and neither know I am responding in this way.

    1. The IBS movement is run mostly by volunteers with a few full time staff. They are all well meaning and do an excellent job. The cost of the tools and functions makes little or no profit for IBS as can be clearly seen when set against the costs of production, hiring venues and so on. Equally, if you look at the cost of similar tools and seminars commercially available, the IBS System is incredibly cheap for what it offers.
    2. TPAOY says he or she spent £20 000 on tools. At todays prices, this equates to around 3900 CDs, 2500 books, 1100 monthly seminars or 220 major functions. I think it unlikely this is true as even I cannot get close to this in 16 years. If it is true, then TPAOY has been a little silly. At what point do you realise the business is not for you? I note you haven’t telephoned IBS directly. Email is so impersonal and get lost all the time. If you believe what you are saying, ring them. You may be pleasantly surprised.
    3. Please don’t go down the route of ‘brainwashing’. We are all free agents with our own choices. The business is made up of individuals who make their own decisions. It is possible that one person did misrepresent the business but this does not make the whole corrupt. I actually wish brainwashing could be achieved as I may have had more success as a result, The whole business promotes positive attitudes which, as previously mentioned, certainly affect your whole life in a good way. I recommend it.
    4. This is the area I have been a bit of a gumby in. The whole thing really only works if you put effort into it. It is the same with anything. There is no ethical ‘get rich quick’ scheme and the leaders in IBS will never tell you otherwise. Okay, you buy the tools and then what? Do you sit and look at them and hope you will absorb them by magic? Of course not, you need to read the books and listen to the tapes or CDs and then study them. It is like any educational course, you only get the full value by wearing them out, by committing to it. The leaders are available for mentorship, get their advice, watch how they work, get around them: it is well worth it. They do know something we all need to know. The whole thing works only if people help other people help others to succeed. Period.
    5. The products are not expensive. Sorry. The core products are generally concentrated and last for a lot longer than the competition. All are of an excellent quality and often lead the market. I have had several occasions recently when strangers have contacted me asking if I can supply them with Amway products as they ‘have lost contact with their distributor.’ There are cheaper products around but they usually do not compare with those available from the business and often cost more in the long run.
    6. Equally, I am now getting former distributors asking if they can get back in. The business is evolving and is quite different to the one of a few years ago. The Internet is partly responsible. I have to say I rarely visit shops to buy non-perishable items now.

    My personal vision is that we entering a severe depression in the world economy and we need something to hold onto. The combination of IBS and the Amivo (Amway) website, never mind any personal feelings, is a potential winner. Almost any product can be fed into the distribution system making the potential enormous.

    I’m sure there are other equally good distributor organisations around but IBS is the one I know.

    Oh, and a couple of other points. There is no scam. The whole process is ethical and income depends on products being sold (as does any business). It is all registered with the appropriate people. There is no cult. Have you considered you may be adversely influencing people who may have benefited from this business? And I found this on a Google search.

    My advice would be this: if you are approached by a distributor (now known as an IBO), take advantage of the opportunities given to research the business before you commit. If you are not given this chance or you feel it is not for you, get out. Make the decision before you sign up thus saving yourself time and money. It won’t be for everyone. If you do see you can get something out of it, commit to it totally for six months and then review the results. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Oh, and don’t worry, you won’t lose any friends if you do it correctly – you will gain some. A lot. I have.

    Best wishes in all you do but don’t blame others for your mistakes. Have confidence in your abilities and judgement. Learn and move on.
  • Angel2
    Thank you Al Mac.

    The recommended approach from the leaders of IBS is to not to promise the earth (and Amway police this quite strictly) but the business presentation is, of course, shown by people like you and me. Whenever you introduce different people into the equation you get different responses and some might get over excited and verge on misrepresentation.

    The reality is, as is so often the case, that the 'they' we all accuse turns out to be us.

    Oh, and the other irony. Have you heard of other groups where the chances to get to the top are limited? Yes, all corporations and governments. How many Managing Directors and Chairmen are there in each company? How many Prime Ministers? In its purest form, Amway offers any individual an equal chance to get as high as they want. Really, look at it in detail and you will realise this is so. This is why I get annoyed when people attempt to discredit it - the question should never be 'what has anyone else done with this?' but 'what can I do with this?'
  • Robdon
    This is just to let you know, that both my husband and I were involved with Amway and the IBS training system between 1992 and 1995. We left the business because my husband became seriously ill and I had to take care of him.
    However, although yes we spent money for the training, we also felt it was money worth spending. Everything they teach you and if you are prepared to listen does work, within the IBS system as well as within everyday life.
    The whole point of this IBS system working alongside Amway is that you have your own customers and the profit you earn from these customers helps towards paying for all the tools and seminars.
    We both enjoyed our time within the IBS system and even now feel we made some friends. The training we learnt helps us now with our day to day living.
    I feel you ended up with a closed mind.
  • BFG
    For anyone with a mind of their own, google for the words amway and scam, and then read and make up your own minds.
  • Turning_into_scrooge
    If this is not a scam then why has it and is being investigated in Asian countries?. Recently they have been investigated in India, I also heard of another one recentl;y but i cannot remember where it was so i'm not going to make a place up but it's also been investigated in the states, its home. Says it all really.
  • Turning_into_scrooge
    And another first time poster praising
    by Al Mac
    There has been along argument on this subject on either the warnings board or the vent board. I would say this is the reason new posters have suddenly found this thread, gather all ye together too many people have been hurt by this company, something needs to be done
    • Sassers
    • By Sassers 9th Nov 06, 10:11 PM
    • 1,243 Posts
    • 8,090 Thanks
    I feel you ended up with a closed mind.
    by Robdon
    And the poor poster's also has an empty wallet. Go away !
    Current debt and mortgage: £31, 805 Debt/Mortgage at start: £92,598 (27/09/2010) Paid off so far: £59,023
  • BFG
    Do you think that the Scamway disciples trawl the net looking for forums that are debating Scamway and then post all innocent-like and say how wonderful Scumway is??
    • Sassers
    • By Sassers 10th Nov 06, 10:14 AM
    • 1,243 Posts
    • 8,090 Thanks
    Do you think that the Scamway disciples trawl the net looking for forums that are debating Scamway and then post all innocent-like and say how wonderful Scumway is??
    by BFG
    Yes BFG I do, as do many other dodgy companies I think as well. Afterall, you only have to google and find places like this don't you?
    Current debt and mortgage: £31, 805 Debt/Mortgage at start: £92,598 (27/09/2010) Paid off so far: £59,023
    • HalfPint
    • By HalfPint 10th Nov 06, 10:27 AM
    • 624 Posts
    • 756 Thanks
    I got caught in the scamway trap. Someone then knocked some sense into me and I got out before it cost me too much money. The person who recruited me wasn't so lucky and lost a fair bit of cash.

    OP - I don't think you'd have any redress, these companies are exceptionally clever at staying on the right side of the law, even if it's by the skin of their teeth.

    Laura x
    DEBT FREE DATE: 05/02/2015!

    Those things in life that we find the hardest to do, are the things we are the most thankful we did.
  • wizzkid
    Not a first time poster or an Amway disciple, but with another company. I am able to stay home full time with my kids with the income I EARN from CUSTOMERS who love the products. The trainings that you get with network marketing also help with running a more traditional business where the chance of failure is just as high, but the costs of failure are higher. I know this to be a fact as my business was in credit within a couple of months, but my OH's manufacturing business is not expected to be for several years yet. Bottom line, usually good products, excellent training, you just have to step up to the plate and take personal responsibility. It is not for everyone, just as being in any business is not for everyone.

    PS, I spend around !!!163;500 a year in training, you can write it off against tax. I pay about !!!163;1 a month in training from my company, the rest I use generic trainers and buy books you can get off amazon and from WHSmiths.
    Last edited by wizzkid; 10-11-2006 at 11:19 AM.
  • Astaroth
    For anyone with a mind of their own, google for the words amway and scam, and then read and make up your own minds.
    by BFG
    Hmmm.... make up your own mind by following your suggestion of using "scam" in the search terms.... dont you think that would also give biased results? I wouldnt imagine that there are many international companies that you could do a search for with a negative term and not come up with at least a few hundred hits.... not defending Amway as I know little about it but this post is as invalid as the one that you are criticising.

    At the end of the day they're a pyramid selling scheme just like Anne Summers, Tupperware, Avon and many other more "respected" brands that operate this model. For many people, they can make money out of it but the "hourly rate" is probably not favourable - though as others have said, it can be the best option if you have other commitments etc. There will be others who effectively decide to start a business without doing any of the necessary and unsurprisingly 1 in 3 new businesses fail in the first 12 months. Plus there is of cause the minority who are actually good/ lucky at it and do make the big money they all claim.
    All posts made are simply my own opinions and are neither professional advice nor the opinions of my employers
    No Advertising or Links in Signatures by Site Rules - MSE Forum Team 2
  • Angel2
    Do you think that the Scamway disciples trawl the net looking for forums that are debating Scamway and then post all innocent-like and say how wonderful Scumway is??
    by BFG

    Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think perhaps you didn't read my first post.

    You have read my last one though.
    Last edited by Angel2; 10-11-2006 at 9:28 PM.
  • BFG
    You have read my last one though.
    by Angel2
    If that's your approach, I'd have to say "A bit on the sensitive side" springs to mind.

    Take a look at the abuse BMSGuy was dishing out to critics of Scamway (on another MSE thread).

    I'm also a big believer that if you're not going to post again to any group, you don't actually need to tell anyone in advance, just don't post again.

    Enjoy the day.
  • BFG
    Take a look at the abuse BMSGuy was dishing out to critics of Scamway (on another MSE thread).
    by BFG
    For the sake of completeness, here is the other thread which explores Scamway, Scamivo, etc in more detail....

    Please anyone thinking of falling for the pitch, please read and do lots of research......then make your own mind up.
    • inmypocketnottheirs
    • By inmypocketnottheirs 11th Nov 06, 3:21 PM
    • 4,535 Posts
    • 2,159 Thanks
    With 14,000 distributors, 14,000 different personalities, clearly this is a business plan that can not work for all.
    Don't lie, thieve, cheat or steal. The Government do not like the competition.
    The Lord Giveth and the Government Taketh Away.
    I'm sorry, I don't apologise. That's just the way I am. Homer (Simpson)
    Just had a look back and I find it amazing to see how current IBS/Amway distributors will defend the system. I remember how we were like this too - unfortunately we were also taken in by the advice to keep investing in the system.

    We lost a lot of friends as well as money. Friends and family count more than any business, but we were told to ignore them as they couldn't understand the system. Turns out they were all correct and could see what was going on.

    Any remaining doubters should have a look at what has happened to most of the former IBS Emeralds and at least one of the Diamonds. This provides the real proof that it doesn't work. I think the fact that Pat and Greta Gregory spend more time working their property business also proves the point.

    The clever Diamonds and Emeralds invested the money they made from the tools scam elsewhere and can still benefit from that to this day. The others have joined the rest of us again working day to day (if the Inland Revenue hasn't caught up with them).
  • MickKnipfler
    what has happened to them? Aren't they involved anymore?
  • suzywuzy
    Contact the DTI - they are CURRENTLY investigatig Amway. If it is illegal ora con now in the time for them ot be shut down,
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