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  • FIRST POST
    • SabNys
    • By SabNys 8th Nov 18, 8:15 AM
    • 54Posts
    • 5Thanks
    SabNys
    Automatic renewal failed - I have no home cover
    • #1
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:15 AM
    Automatic renewal failed - I have no home cover 8th Nov 18 at 8:15 AM
    Here's a snippet from an email I sent to one of my daughters on 11/08/2017:

    ---------------------------------
    2 days after I got my postal house insurance quote from LV, I used the comparison site mentioned here:

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/insurance/home-insurance

    Note that MSE have their own comparison feature, which lists the "deals" that are not mentioned by the main comparison sites - for example M&S or Amazon vouchers for 60.

    I accepted the best online quote from LV, which was 105 less than the LV quote in their renewal notice (almost half price) :-)
    --------------------------------

    Note that my term "house insurance" includes "Contents", per Policy Summary for 2016-17.

    Issue: I've just noticed that I have not received any of the following from LV

    - My renewal quote starting on 15 Aug 2018

    or

    - Any insurance documents, which I would have received if (for example) the postal quote did not arrive, so the insurance would then be AUTOMATICALLY renewed. So, if the docs had referred to the postal quote rather than the online quote, I could have taken immediate action.

    In my own defence, I'm 74.

    Further info: I used the same trick a year earlier on or around 11/08/2016 to get a cheaper LV quote online, compared with the renewal quote sent by post. I phoned LV and said that I did not want to accept the postal renewal quote. I then said that I wanted to accept the online quote (comparison site). That was correctly implemented by LV.

    So, for the 2017 renewal, I have a suspicion that my phone call might have resulted in something being CANCELLED, rather than simply "not accepted".

    I would be grateful for any comments. I'm just waiting for the LV lines to open, so it would be nice to be armed with some opinions from anyone in advance. I was planning to ask them for a free renewal of my insurance at the same premium as 2017-18, especially since they were recommended on the MSE comparison site. They might not want to acquire a bad reputation (assuming the mistake was by LV, rather than myself).

    Thanks.
Page 1
    • Skibunny40
    • By Skibunny40 8th Nov 18, 8:40 AM
    • 141 Posts
    • 119 Thanks
    Skibunny40
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:40 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:40 AM
    So you haven't had any insurance from 15/8/17 until now?
    • SabNys
    • By SabNys 8th Nov 18, 9:05 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    SabNys
    • #3
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:05 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:05 AM
    Yes. And I hadn't realized that until your post. I've been assuming that all was OK for 2017-2018, but that I hadn't received this years postal quote, and that therefore it should have been renewed automatically.

    I looked more closely at the PDFs that LV provided. I see a PDF dated 15 Aug 2017, which says:

    ---------------------------
    Your home insurance has been cancelled. A refund of 232-21 will be credited back to the credit card....
    --------------------------

    I remember seeing and filing that PDF.

    I assumed that the automatic postal renewal premium for 2016-2017 would be repaid, and replaced with the "105 less" premium for the online quote. I think that was what they did for 2016-2017 when I phoned: they repaid the postal premium, and then took the lower online premium from my credit card. That's two separate transactions.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 8th Nov 18, 9:43 AM
    • 95,824 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #4
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:43 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:43 AM
    cancellation and getting a refund is different to not-renewing.

    It sounds as if the old plan was cancelled and a new one was bought. Do, remember that the providers will often run different versions of their product via different distribution channels. They may reduce cover in certain areas to knock off a few pounds to distribute it one way but increase coverage and premium for a different distribution channel that focuses more on quality. Also, product versions change over time.

    It looks like they cancelled the old version and left you to buy the new home insurance yourself based on what you have said. Not a failure of auto-renewal.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • SabNys
    • By SabNys 8th Nov 18, 10:33 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    SabNys
    • #5
    • 8th Nov 18, 10:33 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Nov 18, 10:33 AM
    It sounds as if the old plan was cancelled and a new one was bought.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    That's what I intended to happen during the 2017 phone conversation.

    It looks like they cancelled the old version and left you to buy the new home insurance yourself
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    That was my suspicion.
    But remember that during the phone conversation in 2017, I mentioned (a) that I did not want to accept the postal quote, but instead (b) I wanted to accept the online quote. The conversation was the same as for 2016.
    After the 2017 phone call, no conflicting action was taken by me. In other words, the phone call represents the final verbal agreement.
    Most of these conversations are recorded. Just for info, are they likely to access the conversation if the result might be in my favour?
    • zx81
    • By zx81 8th Nov 18, 10:47 AM
    • 19,380 Posts
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    zx81
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 10:47 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Nov 18, 10:47 AM
    Most of these conversations are recorded. Just for info, are they likely to access the conversation if the result might be in my favour?
    Originally posted by SabNys
    Most aren't.

    On the off chance they recorded yours and still have a copy after all this time, they can check it if they feel the need.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 8th Nov 18, 8:28 PM
    • 7,183 Posts
    • 7,132 Thanks
    eddddy
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:28 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Nov 18, 8:28 PM
    Has an incident occurred that you want to make a claim for?

    If not, couldn't you just take out new insurance today, and enjoy the money you've saved by not paying for insurance for 15 months?
    • Zorillo
    • By Zorillo 8th Nov 18, 9:15 PM
    • 427 Posts
    • 280 Thanks
    Zorillo
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:15 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Nov 18, 9:15 PM
    From the insurer's perspective, if you phone them and tell them you want to lapse your current policy in order to take out an online quote, they're likely to expect you to go online and incept the new cover yourself.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 9th Nov 18, 12:38 AM
    • 1,598 Posts
    • 1,231 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:38 AM
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 12:38 AM
    I always check my insurance has renewed a couple of weeks after renewal.


    No help to you at the moment, but in future...
    • SabNys
    • By SabNys 9th Nov 18, 7:31 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    SabNys
    Most aren't.
    Originally posted by zx81
    Do you have a link to substantiate that?

    Thanks.
    • zx81
    • By zx81 9th Nov 18, 7:38 AM
    • 19,380 Posts
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    zx81
    No. Just years of experience in the industry.
    • rs65
    • By rs65 9th Nov 18, 7:52 AM
    • 5,358 Posts
    • 2,556 Thanks
    rs65
    But remember that during the phone conversation in 2017, I mentioned (a) that I did not want to accept the postal quote, but instead (b) I wanted to accept the online quote.
    Originally posted by SabNys
    Did you then go online and accept the quote?
    • SabNys
    • By SabNys 9th Nov 18, 7:57 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    SabNys
    From the insurer's perspective, if you phone them and tell them you want to lapse your current policy in order to take out an online quote, they're likely to expect you to go online and incept the new cover yourself.
    Originally posted by Zorillo
    But as I mentioned earlier, exactly the same postal/online quote worked OK with LV in 2016 after a single phone call. I think that's exactly what would happen if I had a postal quote from LV, and a better online quote from Company X. If LV wanted to undercut the online quote, it would be done in a single phone call.

    However, as you suggest, if the same situation arises in the future, I'll (a) cancel, then (b) go online and accept the quote.

    Thanks.
    • SabNys
    • By SabNys 9th Nov 18, 8:00 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    SabNys
    Has an incident occurred that you want to make a claim for?
    Originally posted by eddddy
    Thankfully no.
    • SabNys
    • By SabNys 9th Nov 18, 8:17 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    SabNys
    I always check my insurance has renewed a couple of weeks after renewal.
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    That's a new type of action to add to my calendar and ToDo list.

    Thanks.
    • SabNys
    • By SabNys 9th Nov 18, 8:49 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    SabNys
    No. Just years of experience in the industry.
    Originally posted by zx81
    That suggests that you are aware of many cases where a customer asked the insurance company for either:

    - a copy of the tape
    or
    - an acknowledgement that the customer's assertions were valid

    and been refused in all cases.

    It seemed surprising that the press haven't been reporting these incidents, so I found the following link just now:
    https://www.callcentrehelper.com/data-protection-act-and-call-recording-57146.htm

    There's loads of info, but here's a quote relating to the minimum storage time for recorded calls:

    - an insurance policy quote is only held for 15 months if it is not enacted

    My cancelled postal insurance quote would have started on 15 Aug 2017. So, if my call to LV had been less than 7 days prior to that, then the recording would still be available until today or later.

    Thanks.
    • SabNys
    • By SabNys 9th Nov 18, 9:19 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    SabNys
    Did you then go online and accept the quote?
    Originally posted by rs65
    No, because as mentioned elsewhere, the double quote situation was handled correctly by LV in 2016.
    • zx81
    • By zx81 9th Nov 18, 9:24 AM
    • 19,380 Posts
    • 20,709 Thanks
    zx81
    Most calls aren't recorded - only a small percentage and that varies by FS provider. Their primary function is for compliance and training.

    If you believe there is a copy and want to hear it, a SAR would arguably reveal it.

    There's no minimum storage time, but there needs to be a maximum for any customer data storage, as defined within the business' privacy policy. Data should be retained for the duration of its stated purpose.
    • AstroTurtle
    • By AstroTurtle 9th Nov 18, 10:32 AM
    • 247 Posts
    • 678 Thanks
    AstroTurtle
    It's likely the call centre who handled your original renewal processed your request to not renew the policy, But simply stating your going for one you've seen with them Online would automatically mean they live that policy for you unless they stated they would do.

    Especially given if you got the quote via a comparison site they need the references etc to ensure they can see the quote and can incept it so the comparison site earns it's commission.

    They may turn around and say the onus was on you to take out your new policy with them online.

    As ZX81 says most call recording message say "Calls will be recording for training & quality purposes" that means the insurer can only use call recordings in accordance with that. I've known of instances where PPI complaints where the bank have got the call recoding of a customer openly saying they want it and are calling because they want it but the PPI complaint has been upheld cause the bank can't use that as evidence because their privacy notice didn't say the could.

    But worth submitting a subject access request to LV to see if they have it and you can see copies of their notes also which could help you with any complaint. They usually have to give you all copies within 30 days of proof of identity being received.
    Last edited by AstroTurtle; 09-11-2018 at 10:36 AM.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 9th Nov 18, 11:01 AM
    • 95,824 Posts
    • 63,533 Thanks
    dunstonh
    If you haven't suffered a claimable event then arrange a new policy now and be happy you got away with a free period.

    If you want to raise it with them and get it reinstated, then I am sure they will be happy to take the back payment from you.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
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