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Dad died; tenanted property in his estate

24

Comments

  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    edited 5 August 2018 at 5:34PM
    Please do not serve a S21 Notice without first going carefully through this very extensive checklist:
    S21 checklist (Is a S21 valid?)
    GardenLass wrote: »
    My intention was always to sell the house and ...... I was considering selling it with the tenants in situ,
    An option but
    * it will take longer and
    * you'll get less than market value (bearing in mind the market value is what you are paying Inheritance Tax on)

    however, the letting agency has been less than helpful and I have now decided that I want to go with a clean slate - get rid of the letting agency and evict the tenants and just sell the house empty in the normal way.
    I would maintain the agent till the tenancy is ended.

    I do feel bad for the tenants but I will, of course, act within the law and be as reasonable as I can.
    Speak to them. Good communication can avoid all sorts of conflict down the line. Ask if you can go round for a chat for tea and take a cake!

    ......
    I have done some research and I see that I need to use a Section 21 to evict the tenants, giving them at least two months' notice. I also see that to use Section 21, I need to have given them a copy of the Government's How To Rent leaflet, the gas safety certificate and the energy performance certificate.
    Far far more than that. See the checklist.

    I have asked the letting agency if they provided those three documents to the tenants and if so, when they did so. They aren't telling me. I need to ask them again.
    Have you asked in writing?
    ....

    My questions at the moment are:

    - Am I now the landlord? I didn't think I was because the house is still part of my dad's estate and ownership of it has not passed to anyone?
    As administrator of the Estate, you are the landlord. Have you informed the tenants? In writing! Either you or your agent must do so. (see LL/R Act at end).Take a letter when you go to tea!

    - The tenants don't know that my dad has died - what do I/the letting agent need to tell them I am? Their new landlord? My dad's Personal Representative?
    As above
    ( you cannot be his representative since he is deceased. You are the Administrator of his Estate.

    - Do I need to do this asap or can I do it when I start the eviction process?
    asap. The more, and the earlier you communicate, the better. Suddenly serving a S21 out of the blue will cause the T's to
    a) panic
    b) be resentful

    - Can I communicate this to the tenants directly or do I need to go through the letting agent?
    You are the landlord. There is no reason not to communicate with your tenants.

    - Do I need to sign a new contract with the letting agent? I was under the impression that I didn't need to, especially if I don't want to continue with the let, as the contract they have with my dad still stands unless I put the house into my name?
    I'm not sure whether you 'inherit' (are bound by) your dad's contract with the agent - I suspect you are, so a new one is not needed.
    However, as I've said, I'd be inclined to continue to use them and work with them.
    Provided the new contract terms are reasonable, it might be better to sign, rather than start a battle over contracts - especially as this is a short term arrangement.
    If the contract terms are not reasonable, or do not meet your needs, negotiate to get them changed. Agents' contracts are not set in stone!


    - Do the tenants need to have been given the three documents at the start of the tenancy for the Section 21 to be valid?
    See the checklist.

    - If the tenants haven't ever been given the documents, then can they be given them shortly before being served with the Section 21 or does a certain amount of time need to have passed?
    See the checklist.
    In some cases, there is ambiguity in the law regarding whether serving a document late then permits a valid S21 to be served.
    (see 'Caridon Property Ltd V Shooltz, Central London County Coury, 2 Feb 2018)


    See the checklist.

    - If the letting agent doesn't want to help me, can I serve the tenants with the three documents and the Section 21 myself?
    Yes of course. You are the landord.

    GL
    My advice would be to retain the letting agents. Yes, a cost, but
    a) you dad paid the fee so considered it worthwhile and
    b) you are a novice


    These links may also help:
    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

    * New landlords: advice, information & links

    * Letting agents: how should a landlord select or sack?


    Also:
    Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S3
    3 Duty to inform tenant of assignment of landlords interest.

    (1)If the interest of the landlord under a tenancy of premises which consist of or include a dwelling is assigned, the new landlord shall give notice in writing of the assignment, and of his name and address, to the tenant not later than the next day on which rent is payable under the tenancy or, if that is within two months of the assignment, the end of that period of two months.

    (2).......


    (3)A person who is the new landlord under a tenancy falling within subsection (1) and who fails, without reasonable excuse to give the notice required by that subsection, commits a summary offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.
  • theartfullodger
    theartfullodger Posts: 14,590 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    edited 5 August 2018 at 5:46PM
    silvercar wrote: »
    .....

    Pointing out that GardenLass is a new poster at an emotionally difficult time.
    Clearly all would feel sympathy for her loss in 2016.

    She is absolutely not a new poster - see...
    GardenLass wrote: »
    Good evening all

    I have been posting on these forums for 10 years but using a new profile for all things probate-related as I am having some difficulties.......
    But two years?
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    TBH, OP, your easiest way to get the estate wrapped up - which should be your priority - is probably to get the property transferred to joint names, you and your brother. You will now be the landlords. An s21 will still not be valid if the tenants didn't get the prescribed info at the start of their first tenancy, and if the GSCs have not been renewed annually since your father died, but at least it separates the two issues.
  • Dox
    Dox Posts: 3,116 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post

    - The tenants don't know that my dad has died - what do I/the letting agent need to tell them I am? Their new landlord? My dad's Personal Representative?
    As above
    ( you cannot be his representative since he is deceased. You are the Administrator of his Estate.



    Just one small correction to the above - Personal Representative is exactly what you are if you either the executor or the administrator of an estate.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    TBH, OP, your easiest way to get the estate wrapped up - which should be your priority - is probably to get the property transferred to joint names, you and your brother. .
    Why Adrian?


    1) can't be done till Probate is granted
    2) once probate is granted, OP wants to sell - why not sell as administrator?
    3) any issues with the tenancy (eg no Gas report/EPC etc) will still be issues irrespective of any change in ownership and/or landlord
  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,377 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    The tenants don't know that my dad has died - what do I/the letting agent need to tell them I am? Their new landlord? My dad's Personal Representative?

    To whose account has the rent been paid?

    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/calculating-and-paying-tax-after-someone-dies
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Dox wrote: »

    - The tenants don't know that my dad has died - what do I/the letting agent need to tell them I am? Their new landlord? My dad's Personal Representative?
    As above
    ( you cannot be his representative since he is deceased. You are the Administrator of his Estate.



    Just one small correction to the above - Personal Representative is exactly what you are if you either the executor or the administrator of an estate.
    Apologies. brain flux causing terminology breakdown!
  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,377 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    can't be done till Probate is granted
    2) once probate is granted,




    https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/if-the-person-didnt-leave-a-will

    If the person did not leave a will
    You can apply to be an administrator of the estate if the person did not leave a will. The process is the same as applying for probate.

    You'll receive letters of administration to prove you have the legal right to deal with the estate.


    The OP has received the LOA.
    I have obtained a Grant of Representation (Letters of Administration) and am the sole Personal Representative.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    xylophone wrote: »
    Indeed. Rent belongs to the Estate I believe until Probate.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    G_M wrote: »
    Why Adrian?

    1) can't be done till Probate is granted
    2) once probate is granted, OP wants to sell - why not sell as administrator?
    3) any issues with the tenancy (eg no Gas report/EPC etc) will still be issues irrespective of any change in ownership and/or landlord
    Sure. But if the house is taken as being left to the OP and brother, then the estate can be wrapped up quickly.

    If the administrator is selling the house, then it'll be two months notice from the next rent day before vacant possession. Then it can be readied for sale. Let's say another three months for a buyer to appear and the sale to reach completion. So we're into 2019 before the estate's wrapped up. And that's assuming the s21 is valid, the tenants play ball, and a buyer turns up quickly and the sale progresses smoothly.

    We all know that's on a par with the protagonists in fairy tales living happily ever after...

    Here in the real world, it could easily be 2020 before everything's wrapped up. The father died in 2016. If the s21 is invalid, then it could be years before the tenants consider moving on.

    OP - we assume you got the IHT return done within the six months? But that's for another part of the site...
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