Can't go to Annual Leave from Sick Leave?
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I'm fairly sure we don't have to physically return but we do have to phone and let them know that we are fit for work, and offically are back (and if you go back off sick after annual leave they can count it all as sick)0
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We do allow people to do this, and even to take a period of annual leave within a period of long-term sickness, but if this employer doesn't allow it, then this employer doesn't allow it!
OP's wife should talk to her manager / HR and check what will happen on the single day she attends work, or what will happen if she is not fit to attend work.Signature removed for peace of mind0 -
A relaxing beach holiday eh?
My first thought is; how can someone be so ill as to be unable to attend work the day before a holiday, but actually be well enough to go on holiday?! Miraculous recovery?
I suppose the key question would be; Assuming your wife wasn't starting a beach holiday on, for example, July 10th then would she be well enough to return to work on July 10th?
I doubt it very much to be honest, and you haven't really provided an explanation for that question (the employer has offered your wife one way of pretty much validating it, by suggesting that she comes into work the day before the holiday, July 9th in my example).
That's the subjective part.
The objective part is that you should refer to her handbook/contract. If it pretty much backs up this position then, for the most part, yes it is legal (you'd probably need a solicitor/ACAS guidance to challenge the terms of contract).0 -
Presumably it depends what's wrong with you?A relaxing beach holiday eh?
My first thought is; how can someone be so ill as to be unable to attend work the day before a holiday, but actually be well enough to go on holiday?! Miraculous recovery?
I have in fact gone straight from sick leave to annual leave and then returned to work on a phased return (short days). I'd had to cancel a holiday when I crocked my shoulder, and DH was in desperate need of some sunshine. I was signed off for eight weeks, no questions asked, at my first hospital appointment.
Employer had no problem with me doing this, effectively I cancelled the initial period of holiday, then re-booked it for the end of my fit note.
Stress, depression, post-op recovery are all situations where someone may indeed be fit enough to take a holiday before returning to work!Signature removed for peace of mind0 -
Whilst that is all very true, it is perhaps worth pointing out that nobody should go on holiday whilst on sick leave. If you wish to do so then you should (a) check with your doctor that they are willing to agree it, and (b) discuss it with your employer before you do so and before you book it. I know that you are suggesting that holiday might be after a period of sick leave - but going on holiday whilst on sick leave is something a lot of people think is their right. It isn't.Stress, depression, post-op recovery are all situations where someone may indeed be fit enough to take a holiday before returning to work!
One other thing that never ceases to amaze me - if you happen to be sick (or recently sick) then you need to carefully check holiday insurance and travel plans. For example, after surgery, there are recommended restrictions on air travel - ignore them at your peril. You should not travel long haul for six months after many surgeries; three months short haul. That stress that you had on your fit note - did you realise it's a mental health disorder, and most insurance companies specifically ask people to declare all metal health disorders?
Last year I was in Cuba, and happened to meet a woman who, like me, had had a hip replacement. Only hers, unlike mine, was just over two months before she flew. She shouldn't have flown. Her entire insurance was invalidated by having done so, and if she had developed complications she'd have had no cover. She clearly had no idea that was the case - she hadn't even told them about the operation. Didn't think it mattered...0 -
Oh absolutely, and as I said, I booked the holiday while I was still off sick and it was agreed I should take it before I returned. For one thing, it reduced the amount of leave I'd be carrying forward into the new leave year once I was back ...Whilst that is all very true, it is perhaps worth pointing out that nobody should go on holiday whilst on sick leave. If you wish to do so then you should (a) check with your doctor that they are willing to agree it, and (b) discuss it with your employer before you do so and before you book it. I know that you are suggesting that holiday might be after a period of sick leave - but going on holiday whilst on sick leave is something a lot of people think is their right. It isn't.
Good point. I had checked I'd be OK to fly in this case: my shoulder was not plastered and I was by then in reasonable shape. Actually I wasn't told NOT to fly at the time of the original holiday booking, but it was made clear to me that I'd still be in a lot of pain and it probably wouldn't be a lot of fun.One other thing that never ceases to amaze me - if you happen to be sick (or recently sick) then you need to carefully check holiday insurance and travel plans. For example, after surgery, there are recommended restrictions on air travel - ignore them at your peril. You should not travel long haul for six months after many surgeries; three months short haul. That stress that you had on your fit note - did you realise it's a mental health disorder, and most insurance companies specifically ask people to declare all metal health disorders?
DH was SO ready for a holiday I almost suggested he should go without me ... would not have gone down well if he'd even thought about doing so, and actually I needed him at home! :rotfl:
:eek:Last year I was in Cuba, and happened to meet a woman who, like me, had had a hip replacement. Only hers, unlike mine, was just over two months before she flew. She shouldn't have flown. Her entire insurance was invalidated by having done so, and if she had developed complications she'd have had no cover. She clearly had no idea that was the case - she hadn't even told them about the operation. Didn't think it mattered...Signature removed for peace of mind0 -
Whilst that is all very true, it is perhaps worth pointing out that nobody should go on holiday whilst on sick leave. If you wish to do so then you should (a) check with your doctor that they are willing to agree it, and (b) discuss it with your employer before you do so and before you book it. I know that you are suggesting that holiday might be after a period of sick leave - but going on holiday whilst on sick leave is something a lot of people think is their right. It isn't.
I suspect that, unlike OP, Sue took the relevant precautions.
I've had a brief look into OP's posting history and the only mention of a "wife" was a female "friend" a few years ago who has bipolar but works within the NHS in some capacity. If it is the same "friend" then they've also got a fairly bad attendance record at work.
But it might not be that person!One other thing that never ceases to amaze me - if you happen to be sick (or recently sick) then you need to carefully check holiday insurance and travel plans. For example, after surgery, there are recommended restrictions on air travel - ignore them at your peril. You should not travel long haul for six months after many surgeries; three months short haul. That stress that you had on your fit note - did you realise it's a mental health disorder, and most insurance companies specifically ask people to declare all metal health disorders?
Really good point like. I recently went on holiday, and gave some consideration to declaring a fit note about 12 months ago due to stress. My partner has quite a few medical issues and I had to help her declare all of them. She has two life-threatening conditions (asthma and a food allergy) and a few non life-threatening ones, but to be honest the insurance wasn't *that much more* for her. Peace of mind for declaring everything though!Last year I was in Cuba, and happened to meet a woman who, like me, had had a hip replacement. Only hers, unlike mine, was just over two months before she flew. She shouldn't have flown. Her entire insurance was invalidated by having done so, and if she had developed complications she'd have had no cover. She clearly had no idea that was the case - she hadn't even told them about the operation. Didn't think it mattered...
Well, she may well have declared the condition to the insurer without your knowledge? But despite that, I appreciate what you said.
My recent holiday; a young member of our party (mid 20s) DIDN'T have any travel insurance. It would have cost £5 if that. I was in shock like, to be fair life for most people is a steady decline to the abyss but occasionally you get a fast-track ticket and in those circumstances you need some sort of protection! This person also didn't have a valid EHIC card by the way (EU country)...
It was pretty surreal! People sometimes don't actually respect their health (mental + physical)! And OP's wife does seem to fit this bracket... Too ill to work, but not ill enough to cancel a holiday (potentially like what Sue did on here). Really iffy, and I think you make a good side-point with the insurance aspect because, irrespective of whether or not the holiday period should be honored/considered as "sick", the OP's wife should be wary of the insurance policy they hold for this holiday.0 -
No, she hadn't declared it. She said she hadn't! She said she didn't even raise she had to. But I also did check - because of the severity of the operation and the link to DVT, medical advice is six months on long haul, unless travel is critical. I've just had ankle surgery and I am back there again - had to postpone my trip to Cuba (i have friends there) due in October because I'm advised not to travel long haul, so I'll be going in January instead.
But actually, I find tourists amusing in a scary way. I think my all time favourite- running a close second to a group of Brits in the Dominican Republic complaining about the fact that there were(a) too many black people and that (b) they didn't approve of the hotel letting them stay as guests- was the group of Brits in Mexico who explained to me that they didn't take any anti malarial protections because "they were staying in a five star resort". When I pointed out that mosquitoes can't read, aren't class conscious, and have wings to fly over the walls, they seemed surprised!0 -
Look, we don't know what's wrong with the OP's wife (and nor do we need to), but I don't think we should rush to judgement that they are 'too ill to work, but not ill enough to cancel a holiday'.And OP's wife does seem to fit this bracket... Too ill to work, but not ill enough to cancel a holiday (potentially like what Sue did on here). Really iffy, and I think you make a good side-point with the insurance aspect because, irrespective of whether or not the holiday period should be honored/considered as "sick", the OP's wife should be wary of the insurance policy they hold for this holiday.
Since their employer requires them to return to work before taking annual leave, then that is what they need to do. It's either that or cancel the holiday, or POSSIBLY remain on sick leave (and therefore sick pay) but ask if it's OK to still go away. I'd be surprised if the employer agreed, but who knows?
They should also take advice from their GP, and declare to their insurer.
However, if someone's on long term sick leave then they are accruing leave throughout that time. Allowing them to use some of it before they return to work may make sense for both employer and employee. In my case I'd have returned to work in a new leave year with nearly half a year's entitlement not taken. Once I was back at work, I wanted to be BACK, not taking leave every five minutes.Signature removed for peace of mind0 -
But actually, I find tourists amusing in a scary way. I think my all time favourite- running a close second to a group of Brits in the Dominican Republic complaining about the fact that there were(a) too many black people and that (b) they didn't approve of the hotel letting them stay as guests!
They must have been pretty old to think like that. Hope you directed them to Moscow or advised they get a Time Machine to visit pre-apartheid south Africa. :rotfl:0
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