failed ESA medical because husband hasnt attempted to commit suicide!
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Sorry to be pedantic but its not escape goat its scapegoat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat
I am so glad you posted that.
This is the second time in two days I have seen "escape goat" used and on different websites:(Stopped smoking 27/12/2007, but could start again at any time :eek:0 -
The problem with the provision of evidence from GP is that GPS can act both as gateways and treating clinicians. One GP might see a depressed patient on a regular basis over some time and as such got to know how they are living with condition and able to relate this on paper.
The problem is with the patient who had not seen their GP for years or not for that reason and then suddenly makes an appointment after they receive the letter to be told they are to be reassessed, tell the GP that they haven't been able to cope at all for years and expect them to write a letter after a 10mns consultation describing how poorly the patient is. What more can they write than 'the patient said...' which will then be indeed not worth much.0 -
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They don't trust what claimants say because some of them might lying (many aren't), GPs reports are ignored because they aren't with the claimant day to day (neither is the assessor but their opinion is valid for some reason), lack of a psychiatrist and medication is taken as an indication that the claimants problems are minimal even though many people don't take medication because it doesn't work, so they're likely to be more severely affected than a person who is taking medication and getting some benefit from it. What can a person with a severe mental illness, but without a psychiatrist, provide to prove that they are unable to work?
Not MH but one person I know of was told "you are doing everything you can, there is nothing we can do go home and phone if anything changes. " by the clinic she was attending. So no seeing a specialist because there is no cure and no help. There are probably others in the same situation as well.0 -
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Saying that depression is the new 'bad back' doesn't mean to say that every case is not disabiliting it means that there seem to be an increase number of people who consider that suffering from depression means that they should not have to work.0
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Firstly I just want to say Thank you to everyone who has posted a reply!
Secondly I wanted to apologise for "escape goat" - WOW how embarrassing, sorry the pole was an afterthought and I was a bit emotional ! :rotfl:
I don't know how this forum works so i didnt want to quickly reply to everyone and find that all the messages were after each other - so ill try and post a general reply to everyone bwlow (sorry if i miss anyone):
The reason we didn't go for the tribunal is on one of the many calls to the ESA we were told that yes we could get ESA payments back once the tribunal had contacted the ESA and said that we were going to tribunal, however that could take 4 weeks! - bear in mind we had been without money for 3 weeks already we didn't want to wait that length of time. So we were advised to go down the new claim route - which has left us short and not properly backdated but apparently we will receive some money on 11th (although we still get texts asking for sick note - and every time we get one we ask ESA and they say they've got the sick note from the Dr so dont need it!?)
The myocardial bridge is indeed harmless in a lot of cases however he has been suffering with palpitations and breathlessness with strong aches in his chest for the past 8 months - he has been for scans and had 5-day heart monitors which brought the diagnosis - he was passed back to the GP for treatment as they didn't find the need at that time to fit a stent.
I agree some people are lucky enough to go to work whilst suffering from depression & anxiety, however unfortunately my husband isn't - this he struggles with a lot as he used to have a good job £40k+ which he couldn't continue which in itself stresses him out because he isn't bringing in money and i'm looking after him. I do also agree that there are a lot of people out there who as you said "claim they have depression" like they used to with a bad back - however his history should be seen - we did put his Drs details on the form for them to speak to - yet they didn't. My husbands attempts on his own life were a few years ago but were severe - he has since struggled but never to a point of thinking he could again - however he has recently - which he and his Dr see as a major red flag (as do i!) and we are doing everything we can to support him in this. - This is definitely not the time for us to have a massive extra burden of losing any benefits!
The Dr has been really good - with appts every 3 weeks and if he cant attend she calls him - so she has been very hands-on. Maybe it was my fault that I didn't include enough evidence or explain it properly as a few have said - evidence is key?
I don't know whether to go for the appeal - I don't want him to have to explain himself in a room of strangers again - but at the same time we have had a down-cut in benefits?:(
Our local CAB has closed so ill try the call centre on Monday to speak to them - I also need to apply for housing aswell so hopefully be a good week next week!0 -
Saying that depression is the new 'bad back' doesn't mean to say that every case is not disabiliting it means that there seem to be an increase number of people who consider that suffering from depression means that they should not have to work.
and you know this for 100% because... :think:0 -
OP - Be aware that Housing Benefit can be backdated one month, so request this when completing the form. (Presumably your previous HB stopped when ESA stopped?).
Is your husband receiving DLA or PIP?
If not, here is some info on PIP:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/before-claiming/check-you-are-eligible/
It is a shame your local CAB office has closed - as it's easier to advise with all the paperwork present - and they could also do a benefits check / talk to you and your husband about PIP.
Perhaps there is another office you could be seen at?
From what you write, I presume your husband is in the assessment phase and has yet to be assessed for the new claim. He is getting £73.10pw and having to submit fit notes? Have you completed the ESA50 form yet?
If not then this may be useful:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/help-with-your-esa-claim/fill-in-form/Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.0 -
The 2nd PIP report clearly says that the DWP do not hold evidence from friends, family and carers in high regard. It also goes on to say that evidence from a GP should identify which descriptor they are expecting their patient to qualify for. Medical evidence as such is only as good as to confirm an illness/condition. It does not by itself indicate the level of difficulties the claimant has. Many people with the same condition may well have a different level of difficulty simply because they are able to cope better with it or medication is more helpful for one but not another.Alice_Holt wrote: »
Medical evidence is very important evidence, and often determines the success or otherwise at tribunal.
The How to win a PIP appeal is useful on getting medical evidence from the GP relating to the descriptors.
All relevant evidence is helpful - carers, family, friends, CPN, other health professionals.
The key to a successful outcome at tribunal is to produce the evidence, so that on the balance of probabilities given all the evidence in front of them the tribunal panel will allow the appeal.
The verbal evidence of the appellant is also very important - so preparation, knowing how you score the necessary points, and examples to back that up really help.
Good luck.
Finally it also goes on to say that if the claimant has difficulties in getting hold of relevant evidence they must tell the assessor/DWP who will then be charged to get the evidence for them if it is appropriate.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/604097/pip-assessment-second-independent-review.pdf
Those posts of mine have no bearing on the OP's position. They related only to my own dealings with the DWP. Not everyone will have the same problems.0 -
100% agree with this. Particularly the second paragraph.
A friend of mine has a chronic illness (diagnosed about 10 years ago,) and is on a number of meds. She has blood tests every other month to monitor her blood to ensure the meds are not affecting her blood and internal organs. In addition, she attends a clinic every 4 months where a specialist monitors her condition, and twice a year she goes to hospital for X-rays to see if the condition is deteriorating (which it is slowly.) The doctors and the specialists have seen strong and obvious signs of her condition, and it has been recorded on her medical file many times, most recently only 8-10 weeks ago.
She was asked to reapply for ESA last year, she filled in the form, and received a letter a few weeks later, asking her to attend an assessment. The lady who saw her, (who was an ex nurse who specialised in my friend's condition,) said 'you have a file 2 inches deep here, and you have clearly been suffering with this for many years; I don't even know why you were called in.'
Then she asked her a couple of very basic questions, and then said 'OK, that's it, I am sorry you were dragged in when there was no need, there won't be any problems...' And 2 weeks later, she got the letter through saying she was remaining on ESA in the Support Group.
So yes indeed, the evidence, the continued visits to the specialists and the doctors, and being on so many meds helped her enormously. If there has been nothing for a number of years, it's not surprising that the DWP and assessors etc think there may be very little wrong. Not saying there is nothing wrong with the OP's husband of course, just that it's easy to understand why they think this way if someone has zero evidence (or very little) of an illness.
And as has been said, getting evidence of a mental illness or depression is very hard. Never, or hardly ever seeing specialists and not having any meds and rarely seeing the doctor is not going to go in anyone's favour.
The diagnosis for depression and anxiety is generally made after the patient fills out a self assessment form. I have filled out many myself in a honest way and quite rightly the way I was treated by the GP/psychiatrist was in accord of my self assessment. On one occasion I misread one of the questions and gave a firm positive to suicidal thoughts and already knowing how I was to carry them out. This resulted in an urgent referral back to the psychiatrist. It was then that I realised my mistake.
So it is entirely possible that someone could 'over state' their mental health issues and be treated on the basis that they were worse than they actually were. This could result in a report going to the DWP overstating their difficulties.0
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