overpayment? employer breaking law? help?

nigelf12345 · 16 July 2018 at 12:09AM

Hello. I am in urgent need of some advice. I left an employee in early april of this year having only been there for a month, the job was a call centre and it wasn’t for me so I decided to leave. I received a payment at the end of April, which amounted to a full months of wages. I did not check my online banking until the middle of may as I don’t really use it all that much, and saw the large payment. I was only expecting one week of wages, which was around 300 but was paid 1250. This did ring a few alarm bills, but I don’t really know how they work their pay out so I just assumed it added up.

Anyway, I couldn’t just ignore it, I didn’t even receive a payslip for April’s pay. I rung up to enquire about getting some pay slips sent out and asked about the payment. Where it was strongly implied that I had been paid 4 weeks in lieu, this was from the payroll department. So all was great, I spent the money on things I needed.

Come the middle of June, I had a letter in the post from some boss high up to say I owed them all of this money back(£1000!), which I wouldn’t have hesitated to pay back, but I made my own checks into it and was given strong representation the money was infact mine.

I have been emailing back and forth now debating whether this money is rightfully owed, the employer refuses to acknowledge this phone call exists. I’ve rung up, they keep sending me in all different directions when all I’ve tried to do is get them to understand that they need to listen to this phone call, where they will hear that the member of staff told me this payment was correct.
They are threatening to take me to court, but through my own research I’ve learned of the term estoppel. i know that I fit the criteria for it as, the employer made a strong indication the money was mine, it wasn’t my fault the overpayment was made and I have changed my position as a result of the payment.

I left the job and now have only recently started a new job, on an 8 hour contract as that’s all I can find. The amount they are trying to take me to court for is more than 5 times my monthly pay packet in my new job. I have also tried to seek advice from other sources, I have been advised to request to see my contract. I have rung up for that too, they said they would call back with details of my contract and how to get it sent out. Almost a week later I have heard nothing.

It’s ridiculous as I feel like im fighting the case for them, I’m disgusted that they can sah this is owed and not even bother to respond. Let alone bother to send my payslips out, having to ring up is ridiculous as I understand they have to send a final slip out and they didn’t.

I’m just curious as to other people’s opinions to where I stand on this, I know this phone call i had where they stated the money was correct will not exist when they look for it as they lie and twist everything to fit their perspective. Any advice would be great thankyou

elsien · 16 July 2018 at 12:19AM

When did you start working there, when did you finish and what other pay did you have before the final large payment?
Have you had any payslips at all for your time there?
If there's no contract or it's not specified , a weeks notice for someone who's only been working a month is the statutory minimum. Whatever they may or may not have said on the phone (and it can't have been that clear as you say strongly implied rather than categorically stated) you acknowledged that you didn't think it was right - 4 weeks pay in lieu after only a months employment??

Ask them to send in writing how they've calculated what they owe then set up a payment plan would be my advice. Then get another job to fit around your current 8 hours.

nigelf12345 · 16 July 2018 at 12:40AM

Hello. thankyou for your reply
I started working there in the middle of march, I completed 2-3 weeks of training before actually starting the proper job. It was not the kind of environment I can cope in, as dramatic as it might sound it made me incredibly upset and anxious. So I decided to quit with immediate affect because if I had to take another call and be hurled the abuse I had, I really don!!!8217;t know how I would!!!8217;ve coped.

I had received pay for the half of March I had worked there at the end of March. But i had not received a payslip for this. I only received them in May after I had to request them by ringing up, I received march and april payslip in post. When I received the letter to state they made an overpayment, they the attached all of my payslips. Convenient how they send them when they need something back.

I also forgot to mention, another pay check i was supposed to receive in May, this to them was my final payslip, it was literally about 9 pounds. I have no idea where that came from either.

I say indication as I do not remember the exact words they said, it was something along the lines of !!!8220;Yeah you have just been paid the full months wages, 4 weeks in lieu!!!8221; I cannot confirm the exact words, which is why i say indication. But if nothing like that was said, I would accept money is rightfully owed.

I understand that 4 weeks lieu seems ridiculous for having been there a month, but I am only very young. It was my first full time job, I really do not know how it works as I haven!!!8217;t got a copy of my contract to look at. I am quite lucky I have a cousin who works for the HR department for a law firm, who has advised to get a copy of the contract she said she would take a look over, but until i get this I cannot get further assistance from her. I also hate to keep hounding the employer. But im fed up of the endless phone calls and emails where they are like robots and don!!!8217;t listen to anything.

When I did ring one time however, there wasn!!!8217;t a mix up in my dates of leaving, this wasnt like they input wrong dates either. I was advised to email my manager who overlooked me when working there to find out what instruction she gave for me to be paid for a month, surprise surprise, i didn!!!8217;t get an answer.

As for the payment plan, what can you recommend as a minimal amount? I don!!!8217;t think it would be good to get a new job to fit around these 8 hours as I am going back to college full time this september. But any more advice would be very much appreciated, thankyou again

BabyStepper · 16 July 2018 at 5:37AM

You need to pay the money back. You're not entitled to it, you did notice something was wrong with your wage and you didn't alert your employer, and your employer can and might take you to court years later and you would still have to pay this money back. Saying you did not know you had been overpaid is not a defense and won't mean you can keep the money. Neither is quoting the member of staff who you spoke to on the phone and tried to cover their own back by saying your wage was correct. However badly they treated you and however dreadful the job is, and however much you believe they owe you something after your awful experience there, you still need to pay the money back.

Start with getting the correct information out of them about how much you owe, make sure it matches your estimate, and then set up a DD for £10 per month, or as much as you can comfortably afford. If they won't communicate by phone, send them a letter and wait for a reply. At the moment, you don't have the info to pay it back so it's in their hands.

Good luck.

saajan_12 · 16 July 2018 at 12:30PM

Two issues here: do you owe the money and affording to pay it back.

(a) Do you owe the money: Yes, if you have been overpaid for hours you didn't work or for notice period you weren't entitled to per your contract, then you have to pay it back at some point. Any statements they make after the fact don't change the contract you had at the outset.

(b) Affording to pay it back: Their comments leading you to believe the money was yours may justify why you spent it and can't afford to repay immediately, but take longer to earn it back. Until anything with the contract / payment plan is established and agreed, you should start NOW putting something aside every week / month so you can get used to your new budget and have a fund built up to pay back.

Re getting another job, you have 6 weeks before Sept, the perfect time to get some seasonal work. If you were planning to live without a second income, you can put the entire second pay packet aside to pay back the ex employer. By the end of the summer, you could have the entire overpayment repaid and have the items you bought with the overpayment in the first place

cms-help · 17 July 2018 at 6:39PM

The employer is not breaking the law by asking for over-payment of salary to be returned. In fact, they are well within the law. I even think the contract is moot at this point to be honest, although understand why you want it, as I have yet to see an employment contract that states if we overpay you then you can keep it!

What you do need are your salary details for the weeks that you worked to reconcile to your payslips. It sounds very much like Payroll weren't notified of your departure date hence the over-payment.

If you can't afford to repay your employer then you need to negotiate an arrangement to pay with them.

Silver_Queen · 17 July 2018 at 7:43PM

Unfortunately you owe the money and unfortunately they are well within their rights to claim it back. They can claim it back for up to 6 years after the error was made and the amount was so large that it was clearly an error. Your employment contract will certainly say the same thing - I say this with 100% certainty without even looking at the contract. Your next step is to advise them that it would put you in financial difficulty to pay the full amount back and set up a payment plan with them.

sourcrates · 17 July 2018 at 11:25PM

I just hope non of the above posters decide to take up work with the judiciary as they are all jumping to the same conclusion.

3 weeks of training and one week in the job to me equates to a month, assuming you were paid for the training as well.

As with all things debt related, stay off the phone and the email, and write them a good old fashioned letter.

You did not receive a payslip so how can anyone know if you were underpaid or overpaid, ask for it, only that will tell you one way or the other.

Were you supposed to be paid whilst training ? Ask them that too.

Tell them to put into writing your paid hours worked, your tax and national insurance deductions, and what you should of been paid, if different to what you were paid.

If they refuse to comply, then they do not have a case, as its all perfectly reasonable information to ask for, and would need to be supplied should a court case develop from this.

cms-help · 19 July 2018 at 12:42PM

sourcrates wrote: »

I just hope non of the above posters decide to take up work with the judiciary as they are all jumping to the same conclusion.

3 weeks of training and one week in the job to me equates to a month, assuming you were paid for the training as well.

As with all things debt related, stay off the phone and the email, and write them a good old fashioned letter.

You did not receive a payslip so how can anyone know if you were underpaid or overpaid, ask for it, only that will tell you one way or the other.

Were you supposed to be paid whilst training ? Ask them that too.

Tell them to put into writing your paid hours worked, your tax and national insurance deductions, and what you should of been paid, if different to what you were paid.

If they refuse to comply, then they do not have a case, as its all perfectly reasonable information to ask for, and would need to be supplied should a court case develop from this.

The poster has said they received payslips in the post. The poster said they thought they had received too much pay.

What's on the payslips should match what went into their bank account. That doesn't mean mistakes weren't made with what they were paid. That's why I said they needed to know what their salary details were to check that to the payslips/payments received.

There is lots of confusing information as it doesn't sound like the OP was expecting to be paid for their training period, which seems odd to me. It might be that they were correctly paid for this training period. There may also be a day or so of accrued leave that has been paid.

As I read it, there may or may not have been a payment for the training period in March (2 or 3 weeks the OP said). The OP doesn't say how long they worked there post-training, was it a day or a week or 2 weeks?

A lot of clarity is needed before any proper advice can be given. However, salary over-payments generally have to be repaid.

overpayment? employer breaking law? help?

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