STEVENAGE LEISURE PARK UKPC parking charge

battlesgallor · 10 December 2017 at 7:59PM

To cut a very long story as short as I possibly can, we've spent a lot of time over the last few weeks researching these and other forum pages pepipoo (checked the NEWBY's thread and various others) with regards to a situation which has happened to a friend of mine on The Stevenage Lesuire park site which is Private land PCN'd by UKPC. JLL are the management company of the site. (who we also intend to complain directly to)

PCN was physically stuck on Vehicle on 13th October 2017, whilst my friend was delivering an item to a Cineworld Senior staff member (who’s advised us to appeal) and my friend used one of the pull in "double yellow lined bays" These bays have been regularly used by all visitors, staff, etc to the site as loading/unloading, picking up and dropping of points for all the years that the site has been built. (google pics confirm)

After the PCN was issued these pulling bays have now been painted and hatched "LOADING ONLY" and still have double yellow lines, yet one other pull in, near Pizza Hut, has not been painted.

The signage on this site has been notoriously mentioned. The fact that they are only at the main entrance and exit of the leisure Park site, are too highly situated and not at eye level, obscured by other items, camera’s and shop advertising, are not clearly visible for motorist, and there is no "parking/loading signage" or details of these action, that is actually in the vicinity of these bays.

The participant in question was also helping a Disabled person and had blue badges in the vehicle.

The PCN states: Issue Time as 11:56 and First seen time 11:56. the participant was only on site for approximately 5 minutes in total. Clearly an attendant personally issued and stuck the ticket to the vehicle, but didn't bother to hang around to communicate.

An appeal has been sent to UKPC, & a POPLA ref number was issued on 15th November. It is now approaching the 25th – 26th day to send in the POPLA appeal using the Blue Template letter on the MSE forum.

No Notice to Keeper has been received, as yet, either so we have a few Questions to ask.
Here’s some of what we’ve already managed to prepare (swiftly abbreviated for simplicity):

• The alleged contravention did not occur
As participant WAS loading/unloading/delivering, hence not parking, no charge or financial implications/costs incurred etc, as the alleged contravention did not occur. Quite simply, the parking attendant got it wrong, didn’t observe, and vehicle was not parked inappropriately at the time the ticket was issued.

• No evidence of Landowner Authority – the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice.
Paragraph 7 of the BPA CoP defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance: (we intend to quote 7.2, 7.3 a,b,c,d & e)

• A compliant Notice to keeper was never served – no Keeper Liability can apply. (should we be appealing to POPLA as the keeper??)

• There was insufficient signage (we can elaborate further and have recent pics and old google pics etc)

• Mitigating circumstances (we can also elaborate further here as well as the disabled bays are quite a distance from Cineworld and the disabled person being helped was quite ill at the time, we can send copy’s of the Blue Badge’s in question also)

We can also add, “I am a law abiding citizen and I made an honest mistake” to the mix, but does seem contradictory now they've painted and hatched over with large word of "LOADING ONLY"

The problem we have is that the photographic evidence that was on the UKPC site has been “unavailable” prior to the appeal letter being issued and is now, of course, totally unavailable on UKPC site, they’re investigation has been concluded and a POPLA number issued.

We also don’t have a copy of the appeal that was sent either, and my friend is dyslexic so is struggling to recall all the events details and to be able to mentally process the appeals situation, which seems quite complexed, becomes confusing, and creates a stressful and worrying situation.

Any simplicity and help that could be offered here will be gratefully apricated, as we are now considering putting up and paying up just to settle the situation which is precisely what is expected and intended for us to do.

Umkomaas · 10 December 2017 at 8:18PM

It is now approaching the 25th – 26th day to send in the POPLA appeal using the Blue Template letter on the MSE forum.

The ‘blue text’ appeal doesn’t go to POPLA - and there’s no recommendation to delay sending a POPLA appeal in at around day 25/26. All that applies to the initial appeal to the PPC.

You only have 28 days to appeal to POPLA - you might squeeze a couple more (but that’s it). So you need to have a good read of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 which covers POPLA appeals and template appeal paragraphs for you to use. Much is already written for you.

The PCN states: Issue Time as 11:56 and First seen time 11:56. the participant was only on site for approximately 5 minutes in total. Clearly an attendant personally issued and stuck the ticket to the vehicle, but didn't bother to hang around to communicate.

Check out the 2 Grace Periods the BPA Code of Practice requires the PPC to provide you. Clause 13 in the following link:

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf

• A compliant Notice to keeper was never served – no Keeper Liability can apply. (should we be appealing to POPLA as the keeper??)

This is going to be your strongest POPLA appeal point. It should be a slam dunk provided you didn’t give away the driver’s identity when sending in your initial appeal to the PPC. Did you?

• Mitigating circumstances (we can also elaborate further here as well as the disabled bays are quite a distance from Cineworld and the disabled person being helped was quite ill at the time, we can send copy’s of the Blue Badge’s in question also)

Don’t bother. POPLA won’t be interested/adjudicate on any mitigation.

We can also add, “I am a law abiding citizen and I made an honest mistake”

Bang goes your protection from PoFA. And you haven’t broken any ‘law’.

• The alleged contravention did not occur
As participant WAS loading/unloading/delivering, hence not parking, no charge or financial implications/costs incurred etc, as the alleged contravention did not occur. Quite simply, the parking attendant got it wrong, didn’t observe, and vehicle was not parked inappropriately at the time the ticket was issued.

Read the transcript from Jopson v Homeguard - CS038 in the following link:

http://www.parking-prankster.com/more-case-law.html

No time for any prevarication, that POPLA appeal needs to be drafted Let us see a copy of your draft for critique. Do not miss your POPLA deadline.

Redx · 10 December 2017 at 8:19PM

as an appeal has already been sent in, then you do NOT wait until the 26 th day

nor do you use the blue text appeal for a popla appeal either

use post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread to draft the popla appeal, because this needs to be uploaded by about day 30 after the popla code was issued

I think you are mixed up between what is done and when

the blue text appeal should have been sent in to UKPC around day 26 following the windscreen ticket , using the blue text template "as is" (from the KEEPER, not the driver)

after the popla code was issued, the apellant has 28 days to appeal to popla, using the popla examples from post #3 , there is no advantage to waiting and you do not want to be too late either

and yes a landowner complaint should be made in parallel and should have been done at the beginning

battlesgallor · 10 December 2017 at 8:41PM

Thank your both.

We are working on it now and are exploring your links.

Were both dyslexic, so one of us over writes, the other doesn't write enough, and we both argue & confuse each other over dealing with it.

28th day for POPLA appeal, we think, is Wednesday 13th December.

Quentin · 10 December 2017 at 9:04PM

Your OP does indicate who was driving. (Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving - the ppcs monitor this forum and can use your posts against you)

Refer to the driver in the third person (as in "the driver is honest" etc or simply delete section that indicates who was driving)

battlesgallor · 10 December 2017 at 9:19PM

This is going to be your strongest POPLA appeal point. It should be a slam dunk provided you didn’t give away the driver’s identity when sending in your initial appeal to the PPC. Did you?

Not Sure what my friend's appeal exactly stated, as we've not been able to get a copy of it.

she may have innocently done so or they may have insinuated it. she cant recall, and she wasn't emailed a copy when it was submitted online. We've also checked through Junk mail box.
Will coupon mads template be our best starting point?? Abbreviate or not to abbreviate? then include something re: BPA 2 Grace??

KeithP · 10 December 2017 at 9:27PM

Have you read post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?

That should be your starting point for any PoPLA appeal.

Quentin · 10 December 2017 at 9:28PM

battlesgallor wrote: »

Will coupon mads template be our best starting point?? Abbreviate or not to abbreviate? then include something re: BPA 2 Grace??

After constructing your appeal post it here for comments (are you referring to the blue text appeal in the newbies faq thread - if so that's NOT a POPLA appeal!)

battlesgallor · 10 December 2017 at 9:49PM

Just for clarity, Yes we've read and re-read the Newby's posts. The confusion here is over my wording in OP of "blue template letter" which I should have clarified better as "the downloadable POPLA RED and BLUE bracketed, delete-out Template for Second stage appeal BPA

Coupon-mad · 10 December 2017 at 9:56PM

"the downloadable POPLA RED and BLUE bracketed, delete-out Template for Second stage appeal BPA

What the heck is that? A terrible one provided by MSE on the site itself in an article? Never heard of it, do not step outside of this forum. The MSE article on private parking tickets is still badly flawed, despite our attempts at input over the years.

All you need is to search the forum for the name of your PPC and the word POPLA and you will find recent ones to crib from. Or, use the templates in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread on this forum (2 clicks away, see my signature below...).

No Notice to Keeper has been received, as yet

Good, I think they have missed the boat, as it's over 56 days since the windscreen PCN. Exactly as planned! The lack of NTK will be your first POPLA point, so search for a UKPC POPLA appeal here from 2017, that starts by saying no NTK was ever served. Copy & adapt it.

Forget any 'downloadable' MSE edit-out version!

battlesgallor · 10 December 2017 at 10:15PM

Thank you coupon mad, Its been a very long few days of reading and your sense of humour is very well received and needed tonight :-))

STEVENAGE LEISURE PARK UKPC parking charge

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