'Should high earners pay 50% tax?' poll discussion

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  • I'm a low income earner and I am in 2 minds as to whether or not 50% is too high. I guess it's the attitude of one rule for one and another for others; I feel that it's ok to tax 50% on large incomes if they're not earnt, such as city bonuses, or interest, shares, etc. I know some may say that those who have large incomes through interest on, say, inherited money, their parents worked hard for it, but then again, they themselves are not working hard for it. Someone who has made sacrifices in other ways, again, people can say it's their choice, but I don't see it as so fair when someone puts in an 80 hour week and/or forsakes a personal life.

    At the end of the day, it's going to happen, and it'll be worse; it HAS been worse (George Harrison wrote the song Taxman because of the measures implemented by Heath and Wilson on high earners). Without getting on a socio-political hgh-horse or rant, it's because the government has been so frivolous and wasteful with our money, and encouraged us all to live in debt, and led by example in that way, so they need us to bail them out.
  • :beer:
    re the UK higher tax rate hike to 50%, it's worth reminding oneself of how the taxation system in this country is structured.
    This easy to understand example should make it all pretty clear...

    HOW THE TAX SYSTEM WORKS

    Suppose that every day ten men go for beer & the bill for all ten comes to £100.

    If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes it would go something like this The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay £1.
    The sixth would pay £3.
    The seventh would pay £7.
    The eighth would pay £12.
    The ninth would pay £18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

    So, that's what they decided to do.

    The ten men drank in the bar every day & seemed quite happy with the arrangement until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
    'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just £80.

    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
    But what about the other six men - the paying customers?
    How could they divide the £20 windfall so everyone would get his 'fair share?'

    They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33.
    But if they subtracted that from everyone's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
    So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount & he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
    And so:

    The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
    The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33%savings).
    The seventh now pay £5 instead of £7 (28%savings).
    The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% savings).
    The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% savings).
    The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% savings).

    Each of the six was better off than before.
    And the first four continued to drink for free.
    But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

    'I only got a pound out of the £20,' declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, 'but he got £10!'

    'Yes, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a pound, too.
    It's unfair that he got ten times more than I did'

    'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get £10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks'

    'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor'

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him.
    But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important.

    They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill.

    And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works.
    The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.
    In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier and weather is nicer.
  • zygurat789
    zygurat789 Posts: 4,263 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    My heart bleeds for all those people who earn over £150,000 and have to pay 50p income tax and 1p national insurance. My daughter earns less than £10,000 and, like all others in a similar situation, suffers 70p in the pound of government deductions.
    What we desperately need is fairness for the less well off so that when they work they are significantly better off.
    The only thing that is constant is change.
  • zygurat789
    zygurat789 Posts: 4,263 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Well Essdub does this mean that by increasing our tax rates sooner we could have got rid of all those bankers that have caused our current predicament. Well in that case raise away
    The only thing that is constant is change.
  • abbeylover
    abbeylover Posts: 35 Forumite
    I dont earn anywhere near 150k (wish i did!), however if i did i would feel extremely annoyed that all my hard work in my career to look after my family and provide a good lifestyle, is now going towards paying for scroungers on the dole who are too lazy to get a job. This country nowadays seems to punish the honest hard working members of society, while the lazy so and so's get money for nothing. Abolish the welfare state, for all other than the disabled and those who actively seeking employment. See how much extra cash we have in the coffers when the scroungers are'nt given money for their duty free fags and bingo afternoons.
  • stevemcol
    stevemcol Posts: 1,666 Forumite
    I watched a guy on the news who pays himself 1.5 million p.a. Good luck to him, he built his own company and probably deserves it. I just don't get his problem with paying 50% tax though. Just how much money does he need / can he spend? There must surely be an amount above which, well, it just doesn't matter any more. It seems that the more people earn, the more desperate they are to hold on to it. I earn somewhere in the mid thirties and I'd be fairly realaxed if I had to pay an extra 5 or 10 %. I would like to see improved public services for my money though.
    Apparently I'm 10 years old on MSE. Happy birthday to me...etc
  • harryhound
    harryhound Posts: 2,662 Forumite
    edited 1 May 2009 at 3:35AM
    stevemcol wrote: »
    I watched a guy on the news who pays himself 1.5 million p.a. Good luck to him, he built his own company and probably deserves it. I just don't get his problem with paying 50% tax though. Just how much money does he need / can he spend? There must surely be an amount above which, well, it just doesn't matter any more. It seems that the more people earn, the more desperate they are to hold on to it. I earn somewhere in the mid thirties and I'd be fairly realaxed if I had to pay an extra 5 or 10 %. I would like to see improved public services for my money though.

    I think the really rich bloke above knows all the extra tax he is having to pay is just to make a little dent in the generation of debt (30 years) servitude that this government has forced upon the British people. That gets his goat. That is why he resents giving money to finance failure. Pouring good money after bad.

    What has this money been used for? Well ignoring that used for buying votes and pouring into the sands or Iraq, the vast majority has been given to a bunch of crooks and idiots, people who over the last 20 year have wrecked a major British industry - Financial Services.
    In economic terms they might as well have "nuked" Birmingham.
    Something very similar has happened to our cousins in USA.
    I have no real idea what a "trillion" is and I don't have an illustration for the UK
    Here is a view of the similar situation in the USA.

    Look for the big red pie chart and its inflation adjusted comparison with other major schemes financed the their Government. You will realise that bailing out the American economy has cost about 6 times more than all the money ever spent by the next nearest major project NASA, not to mention other flea bites of expenditure, such as the Marshall Plan that rescued Europe from bankruptcy.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=19976535&highlight=buffet#post19976535

    Every man, woman, pensioner & child in Britain is now seriously in debt for the foreseeable future, we will all be poorer just as soon as the comparative still before the storm, caused by spinning this side of the general election, has passed.
    You too will be resentful of your increased taxes or galloping inflation or benefit cuts or probably all three.
  • harryhound
    harryhound Posts: 2,662 Forumite
    zygurat789 wrote: »
    My heart bleeds for all those people who earn over £150,000 and have to pay 50p income tax and 1p national insurance. My daughter earns less than £10,000 and, like all others in a similar situation, suffers 70p in the pound of government deductions.
    What we desperately need is fairness for the less well off so that when they work they are significantly better off.

    Please explain in more detail.

    Are you saying she is losing about 45 pence of freebies for every extra pound earned?
  • zygurat789
    zygurat789 Posts: 4,263 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Tax 20p
    NIC 11p
    Reduction in tax credit 39p
    (to look after two perimary aged boys because she has been abandoned and the CSA et seq can't do anything)
    Total 70P

    I cannot see how you get 45p
    The only thing that is constant is change.
  • I think the following tale sums up the situation:

    HOW THE TAX SYSTEM WORKS

    ....

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

    C.I’m NOT a high earner (nowhere near it!). 50% is too high.

    I still don't see why people should pay different rates of tax just because they have had either the ability to secure a good wage, or because they are a good entreprenuer.

    All we are doing is telling people that it's okay not to have ambition, as you get penalized for it.

    BTW - i don't see anything wrong with taxes - i just think that they should be applied to everyone without bias.
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