Mental Health and Debt Help Booklet Discussion

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  • JayBay_2
    JayBay_2 Posts: 1 Newbie
    edited 23 February 2011 at 9:38AM
    Dear Martin,

    I have just had a quick read of your Mental Health and Debt Booklet and it is absolutely brilliant and packed full of helpful tips, sound financial advice punctuated with real life stories, which bring hope.
    Thank you for having the heart and compassion to put this out totally free of charge.

    However, I believe that there is one missing piece that needs to be made known whenever discussing this area: Dyscalculia. Most people don’t know that it exists and so very few people are getting the help they need (and are entitled to) to succeed in life. In this time of economic crisis, this may well have devastating consequences. I would be grateful if you would allow me to explain in more detail as this is a message which needs to be heard and is also very timely as March 3, 2011 is International Dyscalculia Day.

    Did you know:

    • The word dyscalculia means ‘counting badly’ (dys = badly, Greek. Calculare = counting, Latin)
    • Dyscalculics (people with dyscalculia) don’t just have problems with maths but also struggle with areas, which can, and do, substantially affect the quality of their every day lives. These include:
    1. Difficulty with the abstract concepts of time and direction. Inability to recall schedules, and sequences of past or future events. Unable to keep track of time. May be chronically late.
    2. Poor mental math ability. Poor with money and credit. Cannot do financial planning or budgeting. Checkbooks not balanced. Short term, not long term financial thinking. Fails to see big financial picture. May have fear of money and cash transactions.
    3. Common mistakes when using numbers (eg telephone numbers): number additions, substitutions, transpositions, omissions, and reversals).
    4. May be able to perform math operations one day, but draw a blank the next! May be able to do book work but fails all tests and quizzes. Dyscalculics are able to learn how to calculate something one day, only to discover that the information has been forgotten the next day. In other words maths programs, where repetition is a major part of the teaching method seem to have no result for dyscalculic students - they simply forget.
    5. In addition to special classroom instruction at school, students with learning disorders frequently benefit from individualized tutoring which focuses on their specific learning problem

    Did you also know:

    • Between 3.6 and 6,5% of the world population are dyscalculic? (That means between 216,000,000 and 390,000,000 are dyscalculic, based on a world population of 6 billion people.) That's a lot of people with the potential to get into debt.

    • Having dyslexia does not exclude having dyscalculia automatically - WHO talks about mathematical difficulties that arise because of dyslexia, not dyscalculia, in people that are only dyslexic. Dyslexia can easily cause numbers to "float around". Only a diagnosis can exclude that mathematical problems come from dyslexia - and the other way around. 2.3% of the World's population are dyscalculic and dyslexic at the same time, according to Lewis, Hitch & Walker (1994).

    • Dyscalculia has been approved as a maths disability by WHO and DSM for decades. YET NOONE SEEMS TO KNOW.

    (For further information on the symptoms of dyscalculia, please see the following articles:
    What is dyscalculia? On the BBC skills wise website.
    Dyscalculia on the Unlocking Learning website
    Maths Mastery on the Davis Dyslexia website.
    I am sorry that I can not post actual links, but as a new user the links have been blocked.
    I do hope and pray that this message gets to the millions of people who don't understand why they don't get maths. Understanding what your problem is half the battle.
  • MSE_Martin
    MSE_Martin Posts: 8,272
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Money Saving Expert
    JayBay wrote: »
    Dear Martin,

    I have just had a quick read of your Mental Health and Debt Booklet and it is absolutely brilliant and packed full of helpful tips, sound financial advice punctuated with real life stories, which bring hope.
    Thank you for having the heart and compassion to put this out totally free of charge.

    However, I believe that there is one missing piece that needs to be made known whenever discussing this area: Dyscalculia. Most people don’t know that it exists and so very few people are getting the help they need (and are entitled to) to succeed in life. In this time of economic crisis, this may well have devastating consequences. I would be grateful if you would allow me to explain in more detail as this is a message which needs to be heard and is also very timely as March 3, 2011 is International Dyscalculia Day.

    Did you know:

    • The word dyscalculia means ‘counting badly’ (dys = badly, Greek. Calculare = counting, Latin)
    • Dyscalculics (people with dyscalculia) don’t just have problems with maths but also struggle with areas, which can, and do, substantially affect the quality of their every day lives. These include:
    1. Difficulty with the abstract concepts of time and direction. Inability to recall schedules, and sequences of past or future events. Unable to keep track of time. May be chronically late.
    2. Poor mental math ability. Poor with money and credit. Cannot do financial planning or budgeting. Checkbooks not balanced. Short term, not long term financial thinking. Fails to see big financial picture. May have fear of money and cash transactions.
    3. Common mistakes when using numbers (eg telephone numbers): number additions, substitutions, transpositions, omissions, and reversals).
    4. May be able to perform math operations one day, but draw a blank the next! May be able to do book work but fails all tests and quizzes. Dyscalculics are able to learn how to calculate something one day, only to discover that the information has been forgotten the next day. In other words maths programs, where repetition is a major part of the teaching method seem to have no result for dyscalculic students - they simply forget.
    5. In addition to special classroom instruction at school, students with learning disorders frequently benefit from individualized tutoring which focuses on their specific learning problem

    Did you also know:

    • Between 3.6 and 6,5% of the world population are dyscalculic? (That means between 216,000,000 and 390,000,000 are dyscalculic, based on a world population of 6 billion people.) That's a lot of people with the potential to get into debt.

    • Having dyslexia does not exclude having dyscalculia automatically - WHO talks about mathematical difficulties that arise because of dyslexia, not dyscalculia, in people that are only dyslexic. Dyslexia can easily cause numbers to "float around". Only a diagnosis can exclude that mathematical problems come from dyslexia - and the other way around. 2.3% of the World's population are dyscalculic and dyslexic at the same time, according to Lewis, Hitch & Walker (1994).

    • Dyscalculia has been approved as a maths disability by WHO and DSM for decades. YET NOONE SEEMS TO KNOW.

    (For further information on the symptoms of dyscalculia, please see the following articles:
    What is dyscalculia? On the BBC skills wise website.
    Dyscalculia on the Unlocking Learning website
    Maths Mastery on the Davis Dyslexia website.
    I am sorry that I can not post actual links, but as a new user the links have been blocked.
    I do hope and pray that this message gets to the millions of people who don't understand why they don't get maths. Understanding what your problem is half the battle.


    A very interesting note. I am actually quite aware of dyscalculia, my father is a special education consultatant and he worked with the british dyslexia association and others - on dyscalculia when it was coming more to the fore in the 80s.

    And while I agree its an important issue, I dont think it fits within the mental health guide - which is more about people who for want of a better word, emotionally, cannot cope with their debts.

    What we dont cover in the guide is mental capacity issues - and while those with dyscalculia can be extremely bright, actually the inability to deal with financial numbers is more of a capacity question than a health question. Which is possibly a subject for another day.

    I hope this answers your question (and I hope I have done it with appropriate language, if not do forgive me)
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.
    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.
    Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
  • MSE_Martin
    MSE_Martin Posts: 8,272
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Money Saving Expert
    Martin, this is a brilliant idea and help booklet. Thank you. Will it be available in hard copy too? It would be very helpful if so.

    The problem is one of distribution if we do it in hard copy. A few of our other guides are hard copies but to do that we get a sponsor and often the cost of printing and distribution is upward of £1. So we've kept this as PDF, yet if any relevant organisations want to print and distribute if they ask us, I certainly won't withhold permission unnecessarily.
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.
    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.
    Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
  • Many thanks for this insightful and informative resource as someone who works in the mental health field we are always looking for means to educate and empower our clients. Will be discussing the booklet at our team meeting today and looking at ways to support our clients in these sometimes difficult times. Wonderful work by the team keep it coming knowledge is power
    misselvis proud and in motion - dealing with her debts step by step :)DFW #107
    challenge pay off 6.5k by the end of 2017~ £388/£6500 challenge 1% challenge = 6% of debt cleared; challenge - build up 3 months emergency fund- £0/£6000
  • I think that the booklet is excellent and will be approaching you to see if we can feature it on our website - However, I think that you might have missed a trick that you might want to include in any revisions. Benevolent Funds and Charities can very often help people facing all sorts of different difficulties that have had an impact on their income and that help can often be financial as well as specifically geared towards advice and information. You usually have to have some sort of link to them - like employment - but whenever you're thinking of how to improve your situation - think benevolence! There's a great website that can help you to identify benevolent funds and charities that might be able to help you - but I can't put a link in to it here so search for turn2us. So, whatever your job (now or previously), give it a go. You might be really surprised.:j
  • Loved it and have spread the word. :-) The only constructive criticism I have is that it seemed to me to be aimed mostly at people who had already had their 'Lightbulb Moment'. I know two people for whom this guide would be very useful indeed, but neither accep that they have a debt problem. One of them is just a complete ostrich and the other thinks she's got it all under control. I think I'd like to see more encouragement in the guide to look at overall spending and how this relates to debt; plus some examples of when spending is out of control, even when on the surface it looks OK (for instance taking out more and more agreements with catalogues, buying stuff that never gets used and just clutters up their home, or all their money going on a particular habit such as smoking or drinking).

    Otherwise excellent, thanks Martin! :T

    Alixandrea
  • Now going to download and read. i am 40 years old and untill just over a year ago never been in debt. i had loads of credit cards but paid in full everymonth. the most i have ever earnt is £16,000 a year
    but had a good life and about 5 foreigh holidays every year including 2 or 3 weeks in australia. so alought I have never been rich and had saveings i have always been good with my money.

    I always used to have a go at other people at work who had proplems paying thier credit cards askint them how they could be so stupid spending what they dont have. and telling them they dont have any money because all they are doing is paying intrest back.

    however i have been depressed now for 2 years and have taken out a bank loan and maxed my credit cards. i now owe just over £20,000. it has now got to the stage where all i am doing is paying intrest. I am slowly drowning and have not asked for help as consirded this my fault for spending what i dont have and not pratcing what i have always preeched from my moral highground.

    Spending what i dont have is just not me and so out of characator. i dont reconize who i am anymore and often wonder just how i got in this mess as i cant tell you where the money has gone

    I always knew debt could cause depression but was never aware it could be the other way around.
    i have been in debt for just over a year and been depressed for 2 years.
  • Hi Martin,

    Just wanted to say congrats and well done for the guide. It's fantastic, thank you so much for all the effort and energy that has gone in to this.

    In terms of publishing it in hard copy (which could be really helpful for some people I know who have mental health problems, debt but no internet), would there be a self publishing option? Where we could pay a price to get it printed and delivered as some internet self publishers provide? We could buy it with petty cash from work then and get some copies as and when we needed them.

    Clarie
    Debt Free and Proud!
  • sheenaf
    sheenaf Posts: 48
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    Excellent booklet. I would like to suggest a small addition - a link to simple 'How to cancel' information. I have chronic clinical depression and sometimes my medication is not enough to keep me out of the pits. Friends and relatives drag me out shopping and to home shopping parties to 'cheer me up' and I buy things I do not need or want, really to keep them happy. I have also signed up to various 'free months trial' offers and then been too down to cancel within the set period - the vendors make signing up simple and cancelling very difficult, indeed quite beyond my capabilities when in a downturn.

    I (and I am sure many others) would appreciate an easy to follow step by step guide to returning/ cancelling purchases made in a moment of weakness. Perhaps you could include a note in the booklet with a link to more detailed information?
  • This is an excellent resource - I work in a mental health trust and will certainly make good use of this information - I'm sending out the first one in the post right now!

    Another excellent piece of work Martin - keep it up!
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