Wedding venue has cancelled - bankrupt. Where do I stand?

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  • Dizzy078
    Dizzy078 Posts: 10 Forumite
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    The company name is ava bunting ltd and from the companies house website (I'd post a link but new users aren't allowed) she has filed for the company to be struck off - is this different from insolvency? She is still trading - she has the wedding today..maybe I should go down and take a few pics from the street to prove she is still trading. Good/bad idea?
  • steampowered
    steampowered Posts: 6,176 Forumite
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    OK, so the company applied for a voluntary strike-off on Tuesday 17 April.

    This is not actually an insolvency process. It is a process for removing dormant companies from the companies register. It is a criminal offence for the directors to submit that application if the company has traded in the past 3 months. You are entitled to object to the strike-off proceeding if you are owed a debt.

    I suggest you submit an objection to Companies House on the basis that you intend to take legal action to recover money. This should stop the strike-off process. Details of how to do this are here: https://www.gov.uk/object-to-a-limited-company-being-struck-off.

    The company's last set of accounts as at 31 December 2017 showed assets of just under £15k and debts of £23k, so it seems the company may not have a great deal of assets.

    You would then decide whether it is worth taking a punt on legal action against the company. It might be worth getting a default judgment and sending bailiffs round if someone is still trading from the company's premises. The court issue fee is £115 so it could be worth a punt.

    The above assumes you contract was with the company. If the company name was not clearly stated on the invoice you received before paying the deposit, then I suggest taking the position that your contract is with the individual you dealt with personally and sue them.
  • macman
    macman Posts: 53,098 Forumite
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    Much too late now, but why on earth did you pay by bank transfer? Using a credit card would have made the card provider liable.
    It's pointless to sue an individual with whom you have no contract: her company is a separate legal entity to herself.
    It's equally pointless to sue a company if there are no assets in it.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop ;)
  • Manxman_in_exile
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    OK, so the company applied for a voluntary strike-off on Tuesday 17 April.

    This is not actually an insolvency process. It is a process for removing dormant companies from the companies register. It is a criminal offence for the directors to submit that application if the company has traded in the past 3 months. You are entitled to object to the strike-off proceeding if you are owed a debt.

    I suggest you submit an objection to Companies House on the basis that you intend to take legal action to recover money. This should stop the strike-off process. Details of how to do this are here: https://www.gov.uk/object-to-a-limited-company-being-struck-off.

    The company's last set of accounts as at 31 December 2017 showed assets of just under £15k and debts of £23k, so it seems the company may not have a great deal of assets.

    You would then decide whether it is worth taking a punt on legal action against the company. It might be worth getting a default judgment and sending bailiffs round if someone is still trading from the company's premises. The court issue fee is £115 so it could be worth a punt.

    The above assumes you contract was with the company. If the company name was not clearly stated on the invoice you received before paying the deposit, then I suggest taking the position that your contract is with the individual you dealt with personally and sue them.


    That's all very interesting. Thank you.
  • Manxman_in_exile
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    macman wrote: »
    Much too late now, but why on earth did you pay by bank transfer? Using a credit card would have made the card provider liable.
    It's pointless to sue an individual with whom you have no contract: her company is a separate legal entity to herself.
    It's equally pointless to sue a company if there are no assets in it.


    Yeah. If I were looking to buy a service or product and the supplier would only accept bank transfer, I'd run a mile...very quickly!
  • Dizzy078
    Dizzy078 Posts: 10 Forumite
    edited 22 April 2018 at 6:54PM
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    OK, so the company applied for a voluntary strike-off on Tuesday 17 April.

    This is not actually an insolvency process. It is a process for removing dormant companies from the companies register. It is a criminal offence for the directors to submit that application if the company has traded in the past 3 months. You are entitled to object to the strike-off proceeding if you are owed a debt.

    I suggest you submit an objection to Companies House on the basis that you intend to take legal action to recover money. This should stop the strike-off process. Details of how to do this are here:
    The company's last set of accounts as at 31 December 2017 showed assets of just under £15k and debts of £23k, so it seems the company may not have a great deal of assets.

    You would then decide whether it is worth taking a punt on legal action against the company. It might be worth getting a default judgment and sending bailiffs round if someone is still trading from the company's premises. The court issue fee is £115 so it could be worth a punt.

    The above assumes you contract was with the company. If the company name was not clearly stated on the invoice you received before paying the deposit, then I suggest taking the position that your contract is with the individual you dealt with personally and sue them.

    Many thanks for reply steampowered - I have now submitted an objection to companies house. Can I ask why do you think they would want to strike off the company rather than make it insolvent? In what ways would it benefit her? She is still trading too - she held a wedding at the house yesterday and she did say she would honour all weddings until June 2018.

    Unfortunately yes.. I was stupid and paid by bank transfer. I wasn't thinking. At the time we were just so happy to finally book a venue.
  • steampowered
    steampowered Posts: 6,176 Forumite
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    Dizzy078 wrote: »
    Many thanks for reply steampowered - I have now submitted an objection to companies house. Can I ask why do you think they would want to strike off the company rather than make it insolvent? In what ways would it benefit her? She is still trading too - she held a wedding at the house yesterday and she did say she would honour all weddings until June 2018.
    Well done on submitting the objection, hopefully that will put a stop to the strike-off process.

    No doubt she has gone down the strike-off route because it is the easiest way to close down a company.

    The more important question for you is whether she is still trading through that company, and whether the company still owns any assets.

    If you have reason to believe that this company is still trading and that it still owns assets, you could consider going ahead and open court proceedings immediately (tonight), probably naming the company and the individual as joint defendants.

    I think you have good reason to dispense with serving a 'letter before action' in these circumstances.

    If you get a CCJ, get HCEOs round there immediately. This could well be throwing good money after bad; you'd have to accept you would only have a 50/50 chance of getting the money. But it could be worth a punt.

    If you have evidence to show the company is still trading (the company, not the director personally) you could also report this to the Insolvency Service (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reporting-misconduct-by-companies-directors-and-bankrupts-to-the-insolvency-service/), as the abuse of the strike-off procedure here is pretty blatent. The form says in black and white you can't strike-off if the company has been trading in the past 3 months.
  • dizzy078_2
    dizzy078_2 Posts: 8 Forumite
    edited 23 April 2018 at 12:06PM
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    Well done on submitting the objection, hopefully that will put a stop to the strike-off process.

    No doubt she has gone down the strike-off route because it is the easiest way to close down a company.

    The more important question for you is whether she is still trading through that company, and whether the company still owns any assets.

    If you have reason to believe that this company is still trading and that it still owns assets, you could consider going ahead and open court proceedings immediately (tonight), probably naming the company and the individual as joint defendants.

    I think you have good reason to dispense with serving a 'letter before action' in these circumstances.

    If you get a CCJ, get HCEOs round there immediately. This could well be throwing good money after bad; you'd have to accept you would only have a 50/50 chance of getting the money. But it could be worth a punt.

    If you have evidence to show the company is still trading (the company, not the director personally) you could also report this to the Insolvency Service, as the abuse of the strike-off procedure here is pretty blatent. The form says in black and white you can't strike-off if the company has been trading in the past 3 months.



    Thanks for your continued help on this. I have actually already filed a small claims court case against the director personally on the 12th of April - I want to change this to add the company too. I have attempted to phone the court all morning to ask how to do this but they're not answering. I've emailed them and it says expect a response within 5 days!


    The claim gives her until the 1st of May to reply. So far she hasn't.


    I will look into reporting her to the insolvency service. Can her actions make her personally liable for the company debts? Who would decide this? It is clear she is still trading. From the Bassetlaw council website she has had two temporary event licences granted this year, on the 23rd of March and 21st of April. In a letter she has said she will honour weddings until June.
  • steampowered
    steampowered Posts: 6,176 Forumite
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    dizzy078 wrote: »
    Thanks for your continued help on this. I have actually already filed a small claims court case against the director personally on the 12th of April - I want to change this to add the company too. I have attempted to phone the court all morning to ask how to do this but they're not answering. I've emailed them and it says expect a response within 5 days!

    You would need the court's permission to add an additional claimant. You apply for permission using form N244, for which I believe the fee is £255 - more than the fee you paid to start the claim. It may also effectively 'reset' the time the defendant has to respond to the claim.

    Personally, I would sit tight for now. Once you either get default judgment or receive a defence, which should happen during the next few days, you can then make an educated decision what to do next in terms of the court process.
    I will look into reporting her to the insolvency service. Can her actions make her personally liable for the company debts? Who would decide this? It is clear she is still trading. From the Bassetlaw council website she has had two temporary event licences granted this year, on the 23rd of March and 21st of April. In a letter she has said she will honour weddings until June.
    If the company is still trading, it was an offence to submit a striking-off application. This in itself doesn't trigger personal liability but it adds pressure and helps build a picture.

    If company assets were moved from the company to her name without paying the company the proper price for them (and the company using that to pay creditors), that would trigger personal liability - but you probably don't have enough information to say whether this was the case or not. As the 2016 accounts indicated that the company's debt exceeded its assets the company may well have been genuinely insolvent.

    Interesting re: the council website. Does the council website say in what name the event licence was granted? This would be helpful evidence if you need to get bailiffs/HCEOs involved. It is also helpful for objecting to companies house if the licences were issued in the name of the company, as it proves that the company has been trading in the past 3 months so cannot be struck off.
  • unforeseen
    unforeseen Posts: 7,283 Forumite
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    Be wary about adding her to the claim unless you can prove that your contract was with her and not the company.

    If you can't prove it then there is a good chance of the whole claim being struck out.
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