Feel like I’m getting diddled by BT.

Stu_Wilkie · 24 April 2018 at 1:38PM

Hey guys,

I'm currently admist a dispute with BT over the installation of my router and was looking for some advice. A fairly lengthy post follows...

On 26/01/18, we had a visit from one of their engineers to install the connection into our property. Whilst setting up, he gave us the option of locating the router in one of two locations - second floor or third floor. As our property is spread over three floors, the engineer advised us that the best location for it in terms of it's wireless connectivity would be on the second floor (middle floor). Having only amateur knowledge ourselves, we agreed and he went ahead and finished the installation.

After he left, we discovered that we could not connect to the router wirelessly anywhere in the property apart from the room that it is located in (which we are rarely in). If we do get a connection, it's horribly slow and frequently disconnects from devices. We contacted BT customer service for advice and were informed of the '10 day stabilisation' period, which gives the connection time to stabilise. We are knowledgeable enough to realise that this was not the problem. However, we decided to give the 10 days a shot just to see if things did in fact ‘stabilise'.

After the 10 day period elapsed, things were still predictably the same. We took it upon ourselves to diagnose the issue by purchasing a telephone extension cable and moving the router to the third-floor landing (the other choice the engineer gave us initially) and voilà, a stable connection throughout the entire property.

We contacted BT customer service again to inform them of this but they said that nothing could be done and in order to rectify the issue (move the router permanently to the new location) they would charge us £130 for the pleasure. Furthermore, we are now obviously well over the 14-day threshold to cancel the contract for free, so we are locked into a fairly large monthly payment for a largely unusable service, and the only way to rectify it is to pay even more.

The fact that their engineers can just plonk down a router anywhere and just leave without any sort of testing routine, is a disgrace. It is so sloppy and unprofessional.

Not sure what we should do.
Thanks in advance.

onomatopoeia99 · 24 April 2018 at 3:10PM

Stu_Wilkie wrote: »

The fact that their engineers can just plonk down a router anywhere and just leave without any sort of testing routine, is a disgrace. It is so sloppy and unprofessional.

I'm afraid that the person that came out to your property is not a professional engineer. BT do not employ those to do phone line installs, because the average customer would not like the installation price if they did.

If they were a professional engineer with appropriate professional qualifications and a member of a recognized professional body like the IEEE, and having professional indemnity insurance like other professions of similar standing (lawyer, doctor etc) so they can offer advice backed by said indemnity insurance, in the same way that a lawyer gives legal advice, then you may have a case. But the people BT send round aren't, because as I said, people won't pay the price of that level of expertise.

What you got was a best guess on location, based on no training and none of the analysis that an actual engineer would do. They guessed wrong, and who can be surprised given the fact that the wifi signal barely escapes the second floor room when the router is there, but when the router is on the third floor the entire house (which must by the definition of 'entire' include the second floor room) has a good signal. This seems impossible.

So, you can either run a telephone extension to your preferred location, run a cat5e ethernet cable to a wireless access point at your preferred location, or pay to have the incoming line moved.

Basically, once the internet signal gets to your house and the router establishes a connection, the distribution of the connection from the router within your property is your problem, not part of the ISP service.

kwikbreaks · 24 April 2018 at 3:22PM

Most ISPs offer no guarantees at all on WiFi performance. I doubt most installers even offer a choice of any sort but just stick the socket somewhere convenient to them and don't connect the router up at all but leave that to the customer.

MataNui · 24 April 2018 at 3:31PM

kwikbreaks wrote: »

Most ISPs offer no guarantees at all on WiFi performance. I doubt most installers even offer a choice of any sort but just stick the socket somewhere convenient to them and don't connect the router up at all but leave that to the customer.

Very true. However BT seem to be the only ones who go to town to advertise the fact that their WIFI is sooooo amazingly better than anyone elses you can still use it hanging several hundreds of feet above your house from a helicopter.

Stu_Wilkie · 24 April 2018 at 4:07PM

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

What you got was a best guess on location, based on no training and none of the analysis that an actual engineer would do. They guessed wrong, and who can be surprised given the fact that the wifi signal barely escapes the second floor room when the router is there, but when the router is on the third floor the entire house (which must by the definition of 'entire' include the second floor room) has a good signal. This seems impossible.

I can assure you it's true. After moving the router to the upstairs location and testing it for about 2 hours it has completely changed the connection for the better.

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

Basically, once the internet signal gets to your house and the router establishes a connection, the distribution of the connection from the router within your property is your problem, not part of the ISP service.

Given that wireless connectivity is such a crucial capability of many modern home networks you would think that it would be given some form of attention.

Let's say I was a lone 87 year old woman having this problem, do you still think it's acceptable to say "Not our problem, sorry. But we will jolly well continue to extract a monthly payment from you."

Something seems off about that position.

JJ_Egan · 24 April 2018 at 4:30PM

A lot of these routers are sent out self install .
I for one on a number of ISPs have never had an engineer for a router set up .

Engineer as in the guy that's sent out or the real BT Engineers (Rein or Sunshine ).

But i agree that the users should be informed by all ISPs that wifi is nothing to do with them .
Signal strength will depend upon many factors .ISPs could do an awful lot more before users contact them with complaints .

Cornucopia · 24 April 2018 at 4:41PM

Stu_Wilkie wrote: »

Given that wireless connectivity is such a crucial capability of many modern home networks you would think that it would be given some form of attention.

Let's say I was a lone 87 year old woman having this problem, do you still think it's acceptable to say "Not our problem, sorry. But we will jolly well continue to extract a monthly payment from you."

Something seems off about that position.

I tend to agree with you. We live in a curious time where the technology in most people's homes is well beyond their capability to effectively understand it to a meaningful degree. At the same time, it all seems so easy and so familiar that we are lulled into a false sense of security about how straightforward it should be to get excellent service.

I say that as someone who just changed from Talktalk to NowTV broadband and found that the new Router (bafflingly) did not have a USB port for attaching network storage. Then I spent several hours trying different explanations from the internet on how to configure my old Router as a second device so as to be able to attach storage to the network, before it eventually all worked.

Part of the answer is places like this, where people can ask for help and exchange solutions to common problems. Hopefully this era is only a temporary aberration, and we will shortly get to a stage where the equipment is so intelligent that it will be able to resolve its own installation issues by a simple Q & A with the user. Or maybe it will just keep getting more complicated?

A_Nice_Englishman · 24 April 2018 at 5:20PM

It might be worth trying the router in different positions in the second floor room if you haven't already. Keep it away from anything metallic like radiators or water tanks. Don't some kinds of walls have metal foil inside for insulation?

For the benefit of anyone who comes across this thread in future, I'd suggest plugging the router in in its proposed position, using a telephone extension cable if necessary, and checking the WiFi coverage before doing any permanent wiring. In the case of a new phone line being installed, you obviously won't be able to make the connection to that and reach the Internet during the test but at least see if you get a good signal throughout the property.

worried_jim · 24 April 2018 at 5:33PM

MataNui wrote: »

Very true. However BT seem to be the only ones who go to town to advertise the fact that their WIFI is sooooo amazingly better than anyone elses you can still use it hanging several hundreds of feet above your house from a helicopter.

The ASA banned the advert.

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2017/06/14/bt-ryan-reynolds-broadband-ad-banned-watchdog-following-dozens-complaints

AndyPK · 24 April 2018 at 5:43PM

I guess you have thick walls.

Try putting it near the door of the room and leave the door ajar. Is that enough to get good wifi ?

Now you have a telephone extn cable try various places near the current room, and maybe you can find somewhere where you can DIY a telephone extension.

onomatopoeia99 · 24 April 2018 at 8:14PM

Stu_Wilkie wrote: »

Let's say I was a lone 87 year old woman having this problem, do you still think it's acceptable to say "Not our problem, sorry. But we will jolly well continue to extract a monthly payment from you."

Something seems off about that position.

If an 80-something's home network (or anyone else's) needs attention and it is beyond their competence then they should consult (and pay) an expert, just as they might consult and pay a plumber if their boiler broke down, or a mechanic if their car broke down. And yes, the provider of internet service should still continue to be paid for providing an internet service as they are doing just what they are being paid for - the fact that the recipient has thick walls in thier house that block wifi and choses not to use an ethernet cable doesn't mean there's a problem with the internet service being paid for, nor does it make the wifi problems the responsibility of the ISP.

The person that runs dropwire from the telephone pole into your house and plugs a router into the master socket is not an expert in networks.

Feel like I’m getting diddled by BT.

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