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    • MSE Steve
    • By MSE Steve 24th Jun 16, 9:31 AM
    • 78Posts
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    MSE Steve
    MSE News: Martin's reaction to Brexit
    • #1
    • 24th Jun 16, 9:31 AM
    MSE News: Martin's reaction to Brexit 24th Jun 16 at 9:31 AM
    MoneySavingExpert.com founder Martin Lewis has posted a short homemade video with his initial reaction to the referendum result...
    Read the full story:
    'Martin's reaction to Brexit Ė what will it mean for the economy, mortgages, savings and more?'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
    Last edited by MSE Luke; 24-06-2016 at 10:33 AM.
Page 5
    • ss53
    • By ss53 28th Jun 16, 9:33 AM
    • 89 Posts
    • 72 Thanks
    ss53
    I've just watched it.

    He looks kn*ckered and rambles a bit after an all-nighter

    Basic message is:
    we don't know what will happen next
    interest rates unlikely to rise in short term
    effect on house prices unknown
    savings probably still safe under £75k FSCS limit
    pound buys less currency so holidays will cost more
    imports will cost more so BOE will probably print more money to avoid stagnating economy
    lots of financial pain, but we don't know how severe
    above all, we must all work together - KEEP CALM & CARRY ON

    Oh, and that the people leading us will still be leading us. Which has already been overtaken by events!
    Originally posted by badger09

    I haven't watched the video just the summary above. Did he really say he didn't expect interest rates to rise? I was thinking the opposite would happen and that we should expect interest rates to fall perhaps to zero. This seems to be partly priced into the currency falls and I would have though a response to deflation would be more likely to be required than a response to inflation.
    • bells on it
    • By bells on it 28th Jun 16, 5:38 PM
    • 130 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    bells on it
    Hi, both my parents are Irish born in Ireland therefore I am classed as an Irish citizen even though I was born in England. They both hold an Irish passport though I hold a British one. I am considering applying for my Irish passport to maintain EU membership. Do you think I am eligible and will I be able to apply for an Irish passport for my children? Plus my husband whos parents are both English, will he be able to apply for an Irish passport as we're married?
    • Marchitiello
    • By Marchitiello 28th Jun 16, 5:57 PM
    • 352 Posts
    • 146 Thanks
    Marchitiello
    Hi, both my parents are Irish born in Ireland therefore I am classed as an Irish citizen even though I was born in England. They both hold an Irish passport though I hold a British one. I am considering applying for my Irish passport to maintain EU membership. Do you think I am eligible and will I be able to apply for an Irish passport for my children? Plus my husband whos parents are both English, will he be able to apply for an Irish passport as we're married?
    Originally posted by bells on it
    Do you know if you were registered with the Irish "Registry" system at birth? (often Consulate runs those registry in other countries). If you were, although born in London, you would be also Irish at birth and therefore, even without actually owning the passport, you would hold in practice dual nationality. You can then register your kids and apply for their passport too.

    Not sure in other cases, but when I visited Argentina many years ago,I met few Europeans working at local embassy and consulate who told me they were very busy in granting citizenship to Argentinian football promises that had a direct ancestor in Europe so they could be classified as EU player within the various European leagues. If the Republic of Ireland also recognize Grandchildren of Irish born citizens to qualify for their passport, then it should be fine.
    • snowball27
    • By snowball27 29th Jun 16, 11:32 AM
    • 1 Posts
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    snowball27
    Student attending EU UNi
    What I'd really like to know, is what Martin thinks is going to happen to EU citizens who, like me, live, work and own property in the UK.

    What will happen to our right to work and own property here? What about our children's university fees?

    Any thoughts?
    Originally posted by BadTemperedCat
    I also need to know about EU universities and there doesn't seem to be much information out there. Daughter is due to study in EU where there are no fees. What happens now? Even the Uni don't seem to know...
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 29th Jun 16, 11:44 AM
    • 11,901 Posts
    • 14,698 Thanks
    eskbanker
    I also need to know about EU universities and there doesn't seem to be much information out there. Daughter is due to study in EU where there are no fees. What happens now? Even the Uni don't seem to know...
    Originally posted by snowball27
    It's hardly surprising though - this is a unique situation without precedent and there are millions of matters that require long and detailed analysis, negotiation, debate and legislation. Personally I'd just carry on with Plan A in your situation, as it's unlikely that anything significant will change for at least two years and even then it would surprise me if students already on a course would be affected....
    • LivvyKeegs
    • By LivvyKeegs 29th Jun 16, 12:52 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    LivvyKeegs
    Should I stop mortgage overpayments?
    With uncertainty in the markets (including housing) should I reduce my mortgage overpayments, if I am considering selling in the next ~5 years?

    Currently I overpay by a significant amount (around double the minimum monthly payment) which seems like a relatively 'safe' investment opportunity, but now I'm wondering if another housing crash could mean I end up losing money that would have been safer in a savings account. It know it's difficult to predict ('crystal ball gazing' as Martin would say) but assuming a similar picture to the house price crash in 2007, any thoughts on the relative risk would be greatly appreciated!
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 29th Jun 16, 3:06 PM
    • 11,901 Posts
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    eskbanker
    I don't follow that logic at all - the more money you pay off your mortgage, the less debt you have, regardless of what you'd ultimately end up selling for. If your mortgage rate is significantly lower than what you'd earn in savings then you might wish to save instead but that applies at any time, any potential changes to house price trends don't affect the fundamental equation of savings v mortgage.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 29th Jun 16, 5:44 PM
    • 10,885 Posts
    • 7,222 Thanks
    bigadaj
    With uncertainty in the markets (including housing) should I reduce my mortgage overpayments, if I am considering selling in the next ~5 years?

    Currently I overpay by a significant amount (around double the minimum monthly payment) which seems like a relatively 'safe' investment opportunity, but now I'm wondering if another housing crash could mean I end up losing money that would have been safer in a savings account. It know it's difficult to predict ('crystal ball gazing' as Martin would say) but assuming a similar picture to the house price crash in 2007, any thoughts on the relative risk would be greatly appreciated!
    Originally posted by LivvyKeegs
    Your question is irrelevant. Ignoring feelings such as I like the idea of being mortgage free, then teh only consideration is how your mortgage rate compares with what you would otherwise be doing with teh money, whether in current accounts, regular savers or other cash accounts, or investments or p2p if you want to be more exotic and take on more risk for anticipated reward.

    The value of your property is largely irrelevant, aside from whether paying teh mortgage will unlock a better rate once you have fallen below a particular ltv percentage.
    • Bloomberg
    • By Bloomberg 30th Jun 16, 8:00 PM
    • 657 Posts
    • 268 Thanks
    Bloomberg
    Double edged sword. 🗡
    WOW. What a way to show appreciation for the tax and NI those people pay, and how they contribute to the wealth of our economy. It is very sad to see the lows our country has now sunk to.
    Originally posted by colsten


    Migrant workers have made a huge contribution to our economy. Very few people are opposed to immigration as we do need these people here to do certain jobs. What most people are averse to is uncontrolled immigration. Furthermore it is worth noting that whilst migrant workers pay tax and NI this is to an extent negated by the huge sums which they send back home, money which would from an economic standpoint be better spent here keeping our economy going.


    That said, everyone should be treated with respect and the vilification of migrant workers is abhorrent.
    Money is a wise mans religion
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 30th Jun 16, 8:51 PM
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    • 1,202 Thanks
    Anthorn
    Migrant workers have made a huge contribution to our economy. Very few people are opposed to immigration as we do need these people here to do certain jobs. What most people are averse to is uncontrolled immigration. Furthermore it is worth noting that whilst migrant workers pay tax and NI this is to an extent negated by the huge sums which they send back home, money which would from an economic standpoint be better spent here keeping our economy going.


    That said, everyone should be treated with respect and the vilification of migrant workers is abhorrent.
    Originally posted by Bloomberg
    Without being xenophobic I too am not convinced about the economic benefit of migrants. They pay tax and NI but European migrants send over 100 billion dollars from European countries to their home country every year, 17.1 billion dollars from the UK alone. I'd say those workers are more valuable to their home country than to the country they migrated to.

    http://www.brusselstimes.com/about-us/3284/european-migrants-send-over-100-billion-dollars-home
    Last edited by Anthorn; 30-06-2016 at 9:05 PM.
    • colsten
    • By colsten 30th Jun 16, 9:03 PM
    • 11,278 Posts
    • 10,651 Thanks
    colsten
    Furthermore it is worth noting that whilst migrant workers pay tax and NI this is to an extent negated by the huge sums which they send back home, money which would from an economic standpoint be better spent here keeping our economy going.
    Originally posted by Bloomberg
    We need to be very careful not to be seen as the pariahs of the planet. We invaded and occupied most of the world in Victorian times, and got unspeakably rich at the expense of poor countries back then. Nowadays, we pride ourselves to be the 5th richest nation in the world (despite all the "EU red tape"), we are totally happy to eat the fruit and veg picked by immigrants who we pay next to nothing, and then we complain that these people send "huge sums" back to their home countries.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 30th Jun 16, 9:04 PM
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    bigadaj
    Without being xenophobic I too am not convinced about the economic benefit of migrants. They pay tax and NI but European immigrants send over 100 billion dollars to their home country every year. I'd say those workers are more valuable to their home country than to the country they migrated to.

    http://www.brusselstimes.com/about-us/3284/european-migrants-send-over-100-billion-dollars-home
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Statistics can be manipulated, as we've seen through the Brexit campaign.

    Foreign remittances make up a large percentage of some countries income, you'd generally think of Asia and Africa before Eastern Europe.

    These workers are leveraging economic differences across economies, can't blame them for doing so and in reality the real fault, if there is any, falls at the feet of the British government more than the eu.

    The problem with complaining about immigration is that in general, and there are exceptions, most immigrants are productive and fill a need in the economy they move to. We still currently have low rates of unemployment, reducing immigration would have effects of increasing wages and inflation, both no bad thing in my opinion, and making it more difficult for employers to get away with zero hours contracts. However British people would then be required to do the work, and despite complaints from the poorer end of society about immigration, many unskilled British people don't want to do the work to fill in the gap. This would have to be addressed through the benefits system in combination with wage and price rises, but people sometimes need to be careful what they wish for.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 30th Jun 16, 9:11 PM
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    Anthorn
    Statistics can be manipulated, as we've seen through the Brexit campaign.

    Foreign remittances make up a large percentage of some countries income, you'd generally think of Asia and Africa before Eastern Europe.

    These workers are leveraging economic differences across economies, can't blame them for doing so and in reality the real fault, if there is any, falls at the feet of the British government more than the eu.

    The problem with complaining about immigration is that in general, and there are exceptions, most immigrants are productive and fill a need in the economy they move to. We still currently have low rates of unemployment, reducing immigration would have effects of increasing wages and inflation, both no bad thing in my opinion, and making it more difficult for employers to get away with zero hours contracts. However British people would then be required to do the work, and despite complaints from the poorer end of society about immigration, many unskilled British people don't want to do the work to fill in the gap. This would have to be addressed through the benefits system in combination with wage and price rises, but people sometimes need to be careful what they wish for.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    I didn't mention Eastern Europe nor any country apart from UK. If we state a country in our objection to immigration then we are being racist and xenophobic and that is to be avoided.

    The statistics I posted are from The Brussels Times so if they were manipulated we might conclude that they were manipulated by the EU.
    Last edited by Anthorn; 30-06-2016 at 9:14 PM.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 30th Jun 16, 9:14 PM
    • 10,885 Posts
    • 7,222 Thanks
    bigadaj
    We need to be very careful not to be seen as the pariahs of the planet. We invaded and occupied most of the world in Victorian times, and got unspeakably rich at the expense of poor countries back then. Nowadays, we pride ourselves to be the 5th richest nation in the world (despite all the "EU red tape"), we are totally happy to eat the fruit and veg picked by immigrants who we pay next to nothing, and then we complain that these people send "huge sums" back to their home countries.
    Originally posted by colsten
    There's a lot worse around the planet, but there is an element of hypocrisy in the British idea of fairness.

    The bottom line in what is generally a free market economy is that people will move where there's is a need for labour and an economic advantage in doing so. The difference between immigrants and expats is largely of terminology, though different countries have varying needs in terms of the labour required. The Middle East and Africa still have a need for western management and technical knowledge, so you find many Europeans, Americans, Aussies, etc working in oil in the Middle East, mining in Africa etc. I've known several people who have spent a lot of time in China setting up manufacturing facilities for example.

    Large and rapid movements of populations can be destabilising though, if the labour government had effectively managed immigration during the last decade when they were entitled to do so then some of the issues at the referendum certainly wouldn't have been so acute.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 30th Jun 16, 9:19 PM
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    • 7,222 Thanks
    bigadaj
    I didn't mention Eastern Europe nor any country apart from UK. If we state a country in our objection to immigration then we are being racist and xenophobic and that is to be avoided.

    The statistics I posted are from The Brussels Times so if they were manipulated we might conclude that they were manipulated by the EU.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Very touchy, racism and being xenophobic are two separate things.

    There was an element of irony in the referendum discussion in that voting for leave made you racist, when a logical outcome of increasing immigration from Eastern Europe, given a finite economy, would be a reduction in immigration from the rest of the world. Most Europeans are, or were, Caucasian, so the leave campaign could be accused of being xenophobic but less logically racist.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 30th Jun 16, 9:28 PM
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    Anthorn
    Very touchy, racism and being xenophobic are two separate things.

    There was an element of irony in the referendum discussion in that voting for leave made you racist, when a logical outcome of increasing immigration from Eastern Europe, given a finite economy, would be a reduction in immigration from the rest of the world. Most Europeans are, or were, Caucasian, so the leave campaign could be accused of being xenophobic but less logically racist.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    I don't believe that racism and xenophobia has increased as a result of the referendum and neither are they two different things. The basis of both is prejudice.

    The logical outcome of immigration (and colonisation) is in fact a change in the common culture and displacement of the indigenous population. In colloquial language, they will come for as long as there is a place for them.
    • Bloomberg
    • By Bloomberg 30th Jun 16, 9:29 PM
    • 657 Posts
    • 268 Thanks
    Bloomberg
    There's a lot worse around the planet, but there is an element of hypocrisy in the British idea of fairness.

    The bottom line in what is generally a free market economy is that people will move where there's is a need for labour and an economic advantage in doing so. The difference between immigrants and expats is largely of terminology, though different countries have varying needs in terms of the labour required. The Middle East and Africa still have a need for western management and technical knowledge, so you find many Europeans, Americans, Aussies, etc working in oil in the Middle East, mining in Africa etc. I've known several people who have spent a lot of time in China setting up manufacturing facilities for example.

    Large and rapid movements of populations can be destabilising though, if the labour government had effectively managed immigration during the last decade when they were entitled to do so then some of the issues at the referendum certainly wouldn't have been so acute.
    Originally posted by bigadaj

    I totally agree with the bottom paragraph. If immigration had been properly managed then people in the UK would have been happy to remain in the EU. The public are understandably worried, housing, jobs and the NHS are impacted by large and rapid not to mention uncontrolled immigration. No matter how you dress it up the UK is full.


    You mention that Africa and the Middle East have a need for technical labour, a Briton doing that kind of job is not suppressing the wages of the working man in that particular country. Richard Branson and David Beckham backed the 'remain campaign'. Easy for them to say, they are totally unaffected by soaring rents and property prices. Furthermore they are not undercut by economic migrants. I've noticed that most of the people who want to stay in the EU are quite well off or rich.
    Money is a wise mans religion
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 30th Jun 16, 9:34 PM
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    Anthorn
    I totally agree with the bottom paragraph. If immigration had been properly managed then people in the UK would have been happy to remain in the EU. The public are understandably worried, housing, jobs and the NHS are impacted by large and rapid not to mention uncontrolled immigration. No matter how you dress it up the UK is full.


    You mention that Africa and the Middle East have a need for technical labour, a Briton doing that kind of job is not suppressing the wages of the working man in that particular country. Richard Branson and David Beckham backed the 'remain campaign'. Easy for them to say, they are totally unaffected by soaring rents and property prices. Furthermore they are not undercut by economic migrants. I've noticed that most of the people who want to stay in the EU are quite well off or rich.
    Originally posted by Bloomberg
    I agreed with your last post but I disagree in part with the latest post quoted. The issue is not uncontrolled immigration but uncontrolled immigration of unskilled labour. There is a difference.
    • Bloomberg
    • By Bloomberg 30th Jun 16, 9:47 PM
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    Bloomberg
    I agreed with your last post but I disagree in part with the latest post quoted. The issue is not uncontrolled immigration but uncontrolled immigration of unskilled labour. There is a difference.
    Originally posted by Anthorn


    I should have made that more clear, thank you for pointing that out. As you rightly say, unskilled labour is the issue. If someone with no skills comes here and works in a factory or warehouse and lives on next to nothing and sends a large part of their wage back home are they really benefiting the country?


    Just prior to the EU expansion in 2004 the government predicted that twenty or so thousand people would come here annually from the new EU states. As we all know this figure was dwarfed by the amount which eventually came.




    The U.K can prosper on its own. The EU is a failed political union with an agenda. Look at the misery the Euro has caused. We are better off out. We have basically jumped off a sinking ship. It's only a matter of time before Greece and all the other ailing economies lead to the end of the EU. The death knell has been sounded - pipe dream over for those who thought Europe could fully integrate.
    Money is a wise mans religion
    • Bloomberg
    • By Bloomberg 30th Jun 16, 9:58 PM
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    • 268 Thanks
    Bloomberg
    Without being xenophobic I too am not convinced about the economic benefit of migrants. They pay tax and NI but European migrants send over 100 billion dollars from European countries to their home country every year, 17.1 billion dollars from the UK alone. I'd say those workers are more valuable to their home country than to the country they migrated to.

    http://www.brusselstimes.com/about-us/3284/european-migrants-send-over-100-billion-dollars-home
    Originally posted by Anthorn


    What an interesting article, thank you. I didn't realise that the figure was so high, with this in mind the benefit migrant workers bring is questionable to say the least. There is nothing xenophobic in your post, I have ethnic minority friends who voted out.



    Controlled immigration would have benefitted the economy and society much more. I don't understand how young people are so pro Europe. Most cannot even think about buying a house, unskilled wages have been reduced in real terms and they now wait two weeks to see a doctor. I am not blaming uncontrolled immigration for everything but it certainly hasn't helped the aforementioned problems.
    Money is a wise mans religion
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