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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Steve
    • By MSE Steve 24th Jun 16, 9:31 AM
    • 78Posts
    • 29Thanks
    MSE Steve
    MSE News: Martin's reaction to Brexit
    • #1
    • 24th Jun 16, 9:31 AM
    MSE News: Martin's reaction to Brexit 24th Jun 16 at 9:31 AM
    MoneySavingExpert.com founder Martin Lewis has posted a short homemade video with his initial reaction to the referendum result...
    Read the full story:
    'Martin's reaction to Brexit Ė what will it mean for the economy, mortgages, savings and more?'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
    Last edited by MSE Luke; 24-06-2016 at 10:33 AM.
Page 3
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 24th Jun 16, 3:21 PM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 1,657 Thanks
    GingerBob
    You mean populace. No irony there at all ........
    Originally posted by IanManc
    Yes, I mean populace. Thanks for the correction. I'll return the favour at the earliest opportunity.
    • Ed-1
    • By Ed-1 24th Jun 16, 3:31 PM
    • 2,710 Posts
    • 1,465 Thanks
    Ed-1
    And PLEASE don't give FARAGE the foreign office brief!...Or health for that matter.
    Originally posted by Jhoney
    Farage isn't even an MP, let alone in government.
    • atush
    • By atush 24th Jun 16, 3:35 PM
    • 18,022 Posts
    • 11,456 Thanks
    atush
    What I'd really like to know, is what Martin thinks is going to happen to EU citizens who, like me, live, work and own property in the UK.

    What will happen to our right to work and own property here? What about our children's university fees?

    Any thoughts?
    Originally posted by BadTemperedCat
    If your child was born here, they are already a citizen? This isnt germany. Where your parents have to be citizens.

    And I have heard several people discuss your situation, said it will be part of the treaty negotiations, but as you came here before this happened i expect you will all be able to stay on. After all, we'd rather have you and the taxes you pay, than all the old brits in spain coming back?
    Last edited by atush; 24-06-2016 at 3:37 PM.
    • jamesd
    • By jamesd 24th Jun 16, 3:59 PM
    • 23,514 Posts
    • 15,841 Thanks
    jamesd
    The children born in the UK are likely to be entitled to UK citizenship. Depends on just when they were born as to how they qualify. Even if they missed being born in the UK the ten year rule might well qualify them.

    Assuming that BadTemperedCat has resided here for five years BadTemperedCat will already have acquired the permanent right to reside and work here.
    • phoenix_w
    • By phoenix_w 24th Jun 16, 4:05 PM
    • 411 Posts
    • 355 Thanks
    phoenix_w
    However, what worries me more is that this is just the first lurch on a long slide towards racism, intolerance, and right wing extremism. That we have so many happy to see the country start moving in this direction means that this is also inevitable, I'm afraid.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    I think you're underestimating the general public. I've been surprised myself of how many people I know, mostly well educated & well traveled people who show no sign of racist feelings, have voted to leave. It's not as simple as "leave won because everyone hates foreigners".
    • marleyboy
    • By marleyboy 24th Jun 16, 4:14 PM
    • 14,803 Posts
    • 28,739 Thanks
    marleyboy
    Speaking for myself here, I did not vote LEAVE because of immigration. I voted LEAVE because I did not and do not trust the EU, this Country was raped by them in just about every policy, I did not want the risk of us being raped again by the EU.
    1+1+1=1
    "Marleyboy you are a legend!"
    MarleyBoy "You are the Greatest"
    Marleyboy You Are A Legend!
    Marleyboy speaks sense
    marleyboy (total legend)
    Marleyboy - You are, indeed, a legend.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 24th Jun 16, 4:38 PM
    • 10,957 Posts
    • 8,965 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    It's not as simple as "leave won because everyone hates foreigners".
    Originally posted by phoenix_w
    Perhaps not, but there are massive differences in view on issues such as multi-multiculturalism, women's rights, and the environment between Leave and Remain voters.

    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • phoenix_w
    • By phoenix_w 24th Jun 16, 4:49 PM
    • 411 Posts
    • 355 Thanks
    phoenix_w
    Gadgetmind, if there's anything I've learned from the last general election and this referendum - it's that the pollsters know jack s*** and couldn't predict a impending rainstorm with big grey clouds overhead. That poll you've displayed also fails to put the items into context - I wouldn't know how to answer the feminism question, for example, because whilst I think classical feminism/egalitarianism is a force for good, I think third wave feminism is poisonous and a force for ill. You could say the same for all of the items on that list - multiculturalism, capitalism & the internet are similarly both forces of tremendous good or ill depending on their context.

    The only thing I do hope is that this doesn't ruin the relationships with our neighbours on the continent. Whilst I didn't agree with everything the EU stands for, I love the countries and their peoples and still intend to travel to them if they'll let me :-)
    • ceredigion
    • By ceredigion 24th Jun 16, 4:57 PM
    • 3,492 Posts
    • 4,988 Thanks
    ceredigion
    On the plus side my gold sovereign's had a good night.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 24th Jun 16, 5:06 PM
    • 10,957 Posts
    • 8,965 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    pollsters know jack s*** and couldn't predict a impending rainstorm with big grey clouds overhead.
    Originally posted by phoenix_w
    This poll doesn't try to predict anything and was done after the referendum.

    That poll you've displayed also fails to put the items into context - I wouldn't know how to answer the feminism question, for example
    Exactly the same question was asked of Leave and Remain voters but very different (and telling) answers were given.

    Oh, and you'll notice the percentages don't add up as they could flag "mixed" and vote for both sides.

    The only thing I do hope is that this doesn't ruin the relationships with our neighbours on the continent.
    Yes, a messy divorce but "we'll still be friends", I'm sure.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 24th Jun 16, 5:16 PM
    • 2,268 Posts
    • 2,140 Thanks
    LHW99
    And what were the numbers on each issue.

    An 80% / 20% split is significant if the numbers were 80,000 to 20,000, but rather less so if they were 8 to 2, and so on.

    8 out of 10 cats prefer Wh**kers comes to mind here.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 24th Jun 16, 5:34 PM
    • 10,957 Posts
    • 8,965 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    Are you asking the size of the survey?

    Ashcroft says "On referendum day I surveyed 12,369 people after they had voted to help explain the result – who voted for which outcome, and what lay behind their decision."

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/#more-14746
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • Jhoney
    • By Jhoney 24th Jun 16, 5:35 PM
    • 1,190 Posts
    • 793 Thanks
    Jhoney
    Farage isn't even an MP, let alone in government.
    Originally posted by Ed-1
    I appreciate and am thankful for that. But we have to acknowledge that:

    a) He has had a lot of media time without it and opportunity to opine on it at length. Further

    b) The political landscape has changed significantly and as one of the most fervant advocators of the immigration question/brexit, he will probably have a seat at the table in some capacity.

    The next general election for example. I am not talking weeks and months, but as a non MP etc, he has had a prominent seat in our politics for a long time, has he not?

    I am just trying to widen my lens as noone has stated in all these weeks/months what would happen after BREXIT.

    It's probable that as we discuss, noone is sure, but I think we need to be aware of the potentials. E.g a 2nd scottish referendum, other british and EU referndums etc.

    What was yesterday, is not today and is far, far from tomorrow
    Last edited by Jhoney; 24-06-2016 at 6:33 PM. Reason: spelling
    • upoiupou
    • By upoiupou 24th Jun 16, 7:30 PM
    • 136 Posts
    • 231 Thanks
    upoiupou
    I think you're underestimating the general public. I've been surprised myself of how many people I know, mostly well educated & well traveled people who show no sign of racist feelings, have voted to leave. It's not as simple as "leave won because everyone hates foreigners".
    Originally posted by phoenix_w
    You have put "leave won because everyone hates foreigners" in quotation marks but this isn't a quote from what was said. What was said was:

    "However, what worries me more is that this is just the first lurch on a long slide towards racism, intolerance, and right wing extremism."

    This is not the same as "everyone hates foreigners" and I have to say I find that a depressing interpretation. Racism, intolerance and right wing extremism can be - and usually are - quite selective. They can be tolerant at the same time, in numerous ways. That is why they can be so insidious.

    I think your comment is imprecise and muddled - which for me sums up the whole Leave campaign.

    I'm particularly struck by the positive reactions to the Leave vote from right wing party leaders of other countries like the French Front National. It doesn't surprise me, but it doesn't inspire me either.

    Under the law, ignorance is no defence. I think the same applies to referendums. Being generally nice or non-racist doesn't hack it. Let's see how the next few years pan out. And let's have everyone own the consequences of their vote.
    • phoenix_w
    • By phoenix_w 24th Jun 16, 9:21 PM
    • 411 Posts
    • 355 Thanks
    phoenix_w
    I think your comment is imprecise and muddled - which for me sums up the whole Leave campaign.
    Originally posted by upoiupou
    Maybe that's because this whole referendum has been imprecise and muddled on all sides? Both remain and leave going campaigns full of fear, uncertainty and doubt. I didn't vote and I suspect I wouldn't have been happy with either outcome.

    I'm still struggling to process it. I can't help but feel that if Cameron got a better deal in Europe we'd not be where we are now. Whilst I do think prejudice did play a part in some of the count, I really do believe the majority were more about bureaucracy and perceived unfairness.

    The conversations I've been having over the past few weeks have covered everything from grading strawberries, Dutch fishing trawlers, the number of people employed by the EU, through to a parent who can't get their kids into their local school.
    • Marchitiello
    • By Marchitiello 24th Jun 16, 9:23 PM
    • 352 Posts
    • 146 Thanks
    Marchitiello
    Brief note on the EU citizens living here: if you have been here for more the 5 years you qualify for British Citizenship, which will also rightly give you the right to vote at general elections and referendums such this, and rightly so as you are paying taxes and NI and should have a say on how these are spent or affected by government decision.
    It is not cheap (I believe around £1200) but if one care for the above, it should be done. I wish I had done so when I already qualified and it costed only £150.

    I would also like to answer on the comment " as long as they work and do not claim benefit", well if they have paid their fair share of taxes and NI over a long period of time, they have all the right to claim benefits should something happen to them. For example I know someone that has been here for over 20 years, always employed and paying taxes and NI. Changed job and shorthly after the company restructure and made him redundant. He spent 7 months out of job and for the first two did not claim a penny, and only after being pushed by friends that he finally start claiming job seeker allowance and other benefits. After 5 months on benefit he found a job again and has been back paying tax (I believe some on higher rate as well) and NI and you believe he was not entitled to get help when he needed to when I have met girls that have not work a day in their life, have three kids by different fathers, live in a council house and have everything paid for???
    Last edited by Marchitiello; 25-06-2016 at 12:01 AM.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 25th Jun 16, 12:22 AM
    • 31,670 Posts
    • 19,643 Thanks
    xylophone
    populace.
    or the Latin populus in the sense of a people/crowd/multitude....
    • colsten
    • By colsten 25th Jun 16, 12:48 AM
    • 11,258 Posts
    • 10,630 Thanks
    colsten
    When Leave were campaigning they said no one here would be made to leave.
    Originally posted by tesuhoha
    And they can be completely trusted, as everything they said was absolutely true, wasn't it.

    But let's assume this one wasn't one of their fibs. The first question would be how "someone here" would actually be defined. Is it someone who arrived last week? Someone who has earned the leave to remain indefinitely? Someone with an NI number? Someone who works / studies? Someone who is the partner / child / parent of someone else who is allowed to be here? Someone who is retired / infirm / disabled / unemployed? Etc etc etc.

    The issue can't simply be brushed away because of a throw-away promise of some more or less trustworthy politician who doesn't even have any government powers.

    For anyone affected, there's now an action group who is calling on the government to urgently clarify the situation: https://www.facebook.com/roger.casale12/videos/997034117076636/
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 25th Jun 16, 7:41 AM
    • 10,957 Posts
    • 8,965 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    Whilst I do think prejudice did play a part in some of the count
    Originally posted by phoenix_w
    A huge part. I saw some interviews with members of the public on TV and "Muslims out" and "Get rid of all of the foreigners" were the overriding themes.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • Ivrytwr3
    • By Ivrytwr3 25th Jun 16, 7:48 AM
    • 5,509 Posts
    • 9,645 Thanks
    Ivrytwr3
    I'm not here to provoke an argument or to state if the decision was right or wrong, so genuine question, we were bombarded about how exiting the EU would be in the UKs interest and that vote as we all know, won. Now i was genuinely surprised, the problem i am seeing everywhere is, so is everyone else. I don't actually think people believed this would happen.

    Anyway, i really would like to know if this is a good thing for us, as i am reading some quite disturbing headlines ie GBP has dropped, bad news for overseas holiday makers, Government in turmoil and even Farage appears shocked and is now backtracking on one of their major political strategies, EU money saved to go to the NHS:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy-m1NSUmOY

    That was quite cringe worthy interview and Suzanne Reid seem shocked too as he was so blatant - it wasn't a mistake, it was a lie.

    Yes, things will calm down, the news is new and raw and lots of speculation - but will the release really be to our benefit?

    In summary, we heard how amazing it would be if we left, this has happened, yet all i am hearing now is how this will cause problems. What positives (if any) can we expect to see?
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